Oh no!!!

If you haven’t noticed, I’m not Bob. I decide my positions on my own, and while I’m socially liberal, that doesn’t mean I agree with the “liberal” positions at all times. I’m not insulted at my position being called “conservative”….I’m not tribalistic that way.

EG-I’m pro gun….but very pro regulation.

I’m actually a fiscal conservative, but unlike the right I know that doesn’t really mean the government should only pay for the military and nothing more. I agree with any spending that saves billions or trillions overall, even when it means some people get a free ride.
I think police are a good idea, although I believe they need serious reforms because they have lost their mission completely.
I think public roads are a good thing, as are public water and power systems.
I think national health care is a no brainer that works well in almost every country and saves trillions per year.
I think a safety net is a good idea...give people something to lose so they don’t turn to crime because they have nothing to lose.

Edit: I’ve said most of my adult life that I would be a Republican if only they would. Today’s Con has no resemblance to the Republican party I thought I grew up with (my entire family was hard core R).
Fiscal sanity, gone. Caring about the environment, gone. Supporting facts and science, gone. Supporting small government, gone (except with lip service). Strong and enforced gun regulations to protect gun ownership rights, gone. Strict supporters of law and order, not anymore. Government out of private life, so incredibly gone. Separation of church and state, gone. Fans of democracy, gone. Honesty, not even a memory.
I’m only a “blue liberal” by default. I might be libertarian if they weren’t crazed anti government extremists and almost MAGA.
Dems are the only ones left that really believe in democratic government.


I agree that 40 years+ without parole is cruel, but certainly not unusual or excessive. I never understand why excessively long prison sentences are considered less than the death penalty…I’m claustrophobic, to me it would be 40+ years of panic. I would give myself the death penalty fairly quickly because I’m not brave enough to face that. Swallow my tongue or bite it off, either works just fine and can’t be stopped. I’m really shocked that’s not the norm, but I’ve (clearly) never had to face it.

Careful @newtboy, you're sounding a bit like a conservative on this one from the Canadian POV.

A terrorist that shot 12 people in a mosque, killing 6 was sentenced under new Conservative law that allowed sentences like murder to be applied consecutively. More details in the link below, but our liberal dominated Supreme Court ruled the 40 years without a parole chance was "cruel and unusual".

So our gov. will be giving them a chance at parole in 2039.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/supreme-court-canada-bissonnette-mosque-shooting-sentence-parole-1.6466847

to BK33:

wtf? brainwashed?

is the rapper the victim or your savior?

review this summary...(it's not long)*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum,_1971

...then look in the mirror. if you look closely, you'll see the soap suds in your ears.

honestly. trying to help. don't know how or have the patience to deprogram y'all. the reds are the reason for the division and the deepening morale decline of US citizens.

am a conservative by nature, a 'liberal' by necessity.

* (a bit longer) https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/

https://gizmodo.com/conspiracy-theories-paul-nancy-pelosi-hammers-underwear-1849720475

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/31/conservatives-disinformation-paul-pelosi-assault-00064208

Tool.
Fool.
Sucker.
All your idiotic blatantly false talking points have already been not only debunked, but traced to their origins where they have been retracted. What was that you were saying about links that disappeared? Every accusation you make is an admission.
Try to find the origin of anything you said, because every detail I presented is still there with citations including exactly which officer released the official information.
Moron.
Gullibility incarnate.

Jesus, you really are the worst human being I’ve ever had the displeasure to talk with. Never an honest word or position from you, never an answer, only baseless misleading questions and pure lies every time. Shotgunning nonsense at the universe just to see if any will stick. You’re a real worthless waste of skin.

Trump just admitted Barron was really Ivanka’s love child he sired in an orgy with Epstein. It was twins, and he keeps the twin girl caged for sex on demand in his room at Maralago. Melania confirmed it’s true, and also confirmed that Trump paid her to keep quiet but is broke now so she’s talking. What about that news, bob? Why do you so love a public incest loving atheist pedophile unless you are one?

And some added MAGA culpability for you- On Sunday, Republican House member Tom Emmer of Minnesota faced questioning during an appearance on 'Face the Nation' about a tweet featuring him firing a gun and a hashtag on firing Pelosi he sent out days before House Speaker Pelosi's husband was attacked in their home.

Oops this turned into a semi rant. But I am legitimately open to discussion here, and am curious to get your thoughts on a few points Bob. That is, IF you're willing to actually think about them beyond the level of repeating talking points.

I find it interesting how divergent the two overall "sides" are in this country, in terms of where they focus. None of the issues brought up in this video are really on the radar of most progressives, beyond being aware some on the right are talking about them. And I'm guessing a lot of the concerns progressives discuss rarely come up in your chosen media landscape. A lot of the issues in the video are largely off of my radar, and I have to wonder how you feel they should be addressed - like, actual proposed solutions rather than just complaining about / worrying about them.

We only dedicate one day to remember our fallen soldiers

How many should there be? Arguably we have more than one already: there's Memorial Day and Veterans Day, and it seems that Sept 11th is often used for the purpose as well.

I'd argue we should spend more time acknowledging and understanding the principals behind WHY our soldiers died in the various conflicts which caused them to fall in the first place. Let's make sure our citizenry appreciates what we collectively rejected in the Revolutionary war. Why it was important that we kept the country together rather than allowing the south to split off in the mid-1800s. Why we chose to honor our diplomatic agreements and support our allies in WW1. Why we fought against the countries and governments we did in WW2. What our goals were in Korea and Vietnam, and what lessons we learned from those conflicts and from the Cold War in general. Commemorating and remembering those we've lost absolutely matters, but if we're ONLY doing that while forgetting why they fought OR ignoring what we learned then we're doing them an equal or greater disservice. Remember that America was built on the idea of forming "a more perfect union" - not a perfect one, a MORE perfect one - a work in progress. We're striving towards an ideal, not assuming we're already there. Learning from our past successes, failures, and our struggles around both outcomes is vital. If our self-analysis is no deeper than hero worship we'll never make real progress towards that theoretical perfect union.

The only mask that's gonna save us is duct tape on their mouths

Yeah, sound medical advice and evidence-based science is terrifying. Better to shut up those whose words we dislike, because we're reactionary authoritarian babymen. I truly do not understand being more afraid of reasonable safety measures than of a virus which has been shown to cause serious harm in the short and long terms. The only reason this "masks = liberal / maskless = conservative" crap came about is because politics has devolved to the level of team sports in the US, and one party has chosen "the opposite of whatever our political opponents say" as their entire governing philosophy. (And yes, ONE party - research and understand the GOP's 2020 platform if you want to argue the point.) This video even seems to reach a reasonable conclusion at the end, while coming up just short of that final logical leap to "maybe I should question what the public faces of MY side have been claiming in this Us vs Them madness." Seriously - keep going friend, you're almost there! George Washington was 100% right in wanting to avoid political parties being a force in the US, and it makes me immensely sad that his fears came true.

Big oil runs the world / the only wars to get fought are with the countries who have natural resources they want

Solid point here, no sarcasm. The US military has long been a tool of our profit-driven form of "free market" imperialism. A really great way to combat this, specifically with an eye to ending Big Oil's goddamn death grip on our foreign policy goals, would be an aggressive implementation of renewable energy projects. Remember the space race? America can be an absolute beast at clever engineering solutions when we dedicate ourselves to it. Fuck the petrostates, we have the available land and resources to absolutely kick ass in the realms of solar and wind power, and be leaders in the the post-hydrocarbon reality. We can certainly agree on that, right Bob? Left / Right nonsense fully aside, I think any reasonable American can agree on at least two points: let's stop sending heaps of cash to buy oil off of the Saudis (etc), and Fuck Cancer.

But if a white man acts too white he's white trash / he's a racist he's a bigot he's a monster

What the fuck is this horseshit? What does "acting too white" even fucking look like? Watching NASCAR on a sailboat while listening to polka? Typically when I see racism from white people it's in the form of denying that brown-hued people deal with any additional difficulties in life due to their skin tone, or denying that there have been structural obstacles for them through history, or lamenting that their white children are being burdened with a broader lens on culture or with (gasp! shock!) an accurate accounting of actual US history, including the ugly bits that we shouldn't be proud of (but MUST learn from). I'm progressive / lefty as fuck and there is no aspect of "white culture" or "acting white" which upsets me in the slightest. UNLESS one counts "denying racism exists / has ever existed" as a fundamental value of being white. Which... why would anyone want to claim that nonsense? If you want to listen to classic country music in a rusty pickup truck while driving to an evangelical church, then discuss hockey over Buds after 18 holes with the rest of your tractor pull team, then absolutely go nuts my fellow caucusoid! Just recognize and understand that your life experiences may not be the same as those of others. Further, if we care about trying to avoid unnecessary, avoidable unfairness in life (recognizing that life will never truly be fair, for anyone), then it might be reasonable for some governmental / legal / structural recognition in furtherance of that notion. There is absolutely room for legitimate policy disagreement here without being accused of racism. It's denial of others' reality which tends to garner the label of racist (sexist etc) - steer clear of denying the lived experiences of other people, allow for the possibility they may have encountered difficulties you haven't / won't, and we've room for further discussion.

Edit / final point: I voted the video back up to 0 from the -1 where I found it. Because while I disagree with a lot of the positions taken by the performer, they may have reached them through no fault of their own and with no true malice. Misinformation / disinformation is a devious shit of a motherfucker, and the rot it causes can run deep. It is painful to abandon deeply-held beliefs, on a fundamental level. If nothing else, the video gives us room to discuss some specific viewpoints held by people who think of themselves as good, but which can lead to harm.

What’s this rambling about a mirror?

Because it’s not a real thing in grade schools, as the right claims falsely. It’s a real advanced course in law school 100% intentionally mischaracterized then claimed to be being taught in K-12….all outright lies by far right wing actors meant to politicize racism as a divisive ploy, and your side chose the “pro-racism” side.

It’s an advanced law course taught in law schools since the 80’s, not a concept that all white kids should feel guilty and morally inferior being taught in middle schools.
It’s been rebranded as this catch all phrase for anything far right wing nuts don’t like….like history…and most of what it claims is happening is nonsense, just like kids identifying as cats and shitting in litter boxes in school. That is historical fact admitted by the man who intentionally rebranded it to make it political. Read.
You can’t define crt, you just know it’s bad and you hate it. So lost and gullible are you. You believe the most idiotic nonsense.

Once again you buy the fake boogie man hook line and sinker without doing a stitch of research on reality, maybe you read a few far right wing tweets by some ignoramuses or liars (or both), but you clearly haven’t strayed outside the echo chamber, you rarely do.

Here’s one take on the history of the intentional bastardization and hyper exaggeration of the concept as a political tool. Try reading the whole thing.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory

Now, Ashley Babbitt. She deserved to be shot and shouldn’t have fucked with police, right?
You ever going to grow a pair and answer a simple question? Undoubtedly not, you can’t ever answer questions, only repeat loaded questions someone else handed you. It’s really sad and makes you a sniveling coward. Expect it to be pointed out daily.

Um….what? This stops any state from cheating and requires they send electors for the candidate that won more certified votes.
Today, without the bill, if a State legislature cheats like dozens of Republican legislatures did in 2020, there’s a good chance it’s still official….that’s what you want, the ability for dishonest Republican legislatures to pick the state winner, not voters.
This stops unsubstantiated claims of cheating from being enough to overturn an election…it stops anti democratic frauds like the ones Trumpsters tried in 2020 from being in any way legal.

Are you brain damaged? Democrats wanted the recount, Bush won because it was halted. Gore sued for recounts, Bush sued to stop them. YOU MORONIC IMBICILE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_in_Florida
Holy fucking sheep shit buddy. You have everything totally backwards and upside down. It’s a shock you aren’t dead from shoving steak in your asshole and trying to shit out your neck.

This time Republicans tried to stop the count, not a recount, not a second recount, but the initial count of valid certified votes….also, moron, history lesson..republicans and the conservative court stopped the recount in 2000, not Democrats….after 1/4 of Florida counties failed to complete a legally required machine recount Gore sued for hand recounts and Bush successfully blocked them, that’s why Bush “won” despite not getting more votes. Are you really so insane you think Democrats stopped the recount that had them ahead, handing unearned victory to Bush? You probably are.

Tried to stop the Trump count? What the everloving fuck are you making up now? Clinton conceded the day after the election (after she won with 3 million more votes), no one tried to stop the count, you moronic liar. WHAT!?!

Again…WHAT? What do you mean by the meaningless “if a state cheats”? That’s some meaningless nonsense speak….define this chimeric right wing term. This bill STOPS state legislatures from cheating, ignoring the vote and sending electors they choose. That STOPS cheating, it doesn’t allow it. It also still lets congress to invalidate electors if there’s corruption…but by 2/3 vote not just one.

You’re smoking too much meth again. Derp.

Really?! Just like all knew Jan 6 was ANTIFA, like everyone knows Trump won and Democrats cheated to the tune of tens of millions of votes, but perfectly with zero traces, like everyone knows Covid is just a cold and won’t last 3 months? It’s true, both sides have corruption, but one side punishes and ostracizes those in their camp caught being corrupt, one side makes corruption their party platform and celebrates their members caught flagrantly violating ethics and finance rules, gladly donating towards paying their fines and shielding them from most consequences.

Point to the time Republicans put forth a serious bill to remove dark money that Democrats said no. I don’t think you can, nor can you deny Republicans just voted FOR corruption in government…and not for the first time….you just need to make up fake and false equivalents to pretend blatant Republican corruption is normal.

I’ll point you to Citizens United, the main cause of dark money in politics today, which started as an anti Clinton Republican movie that filed suit and appealed up to the conservative Supreme Court to allow corporations to spend essentially unlimited amounts in secret on political advertising and campaigns (because their “movie” was clearly a political advertisement with secret backers), or to say it plainly, they sued to legalize corporate bribery and conservatives loved it.

Again, point to some “egg on their face” instances that were Democrats fighting for dark money and Republicans trying to ban it, I can point to many times Democrats tried to ban it and Republicans blocked all efforts.

Republicans won’t even limit dark money, and can’t compete on equal funding so refuse to consider getting rid of it.

If you want bribery to be illegal, vote blue.
If you want freedoms beyond just what’s church approved (like in Iran), vote blue.
If you want ethics in government, vote blue.
If you want to fund border control better instead of using its lack of funding as a political ploy knowing your constituents are too dumb to see who caused the surge, vote blue.*
If you want publicly funded campaigns, vote blue.

*https://rollcall.com/2022/04/27/senate-republicans-balk-on-funds-related-to-bidens-border-move/

Obviously. It would violate the law of conservation of mass to turn a single nail into a frog.

A Republican candidate running for a seat in Oklahoma's state House once said it is "totally just" to kill gay people in comments that have resurfaced amid his campaign. Bad Republican, right? Bohbert and Greene agree….most Trumpists do. Also bad Republicans, right? This was based on their extremist religion, but they don’t want to stone people who eat shellfish, wear blended fabrics, or work (or have work done) on the sabbath (whichever sabbath they decide is the right one) which it also prescribes.

Comey Barrett belongs to a cult whose #1 teaching is “women must be subservient to men and defer to them at all times”. A fact she actively hid. Hardly qualifications for a top judge, essentially making her a thoughtless second vote for the male “conservatives” with no ability to judge on her own? That’s bad, right?

Courts determined Barr obstructed justice to shield Trump from 10 legitimate obstruction charges….so both are bad Republicans, right? Shouldn’t hold office, right? No? Then I guess you were lying again when you said “ When you post a bad Republican , I agree”.

I would also point out, every time you try to point to “my side” being wrong, you get your information from propaganda outlets that constantly lie to you or less trustworthy internet trolls, making you a fool when you repeat their lies….but instead of being mad at them you get bent at those telling you facts.
FYI, I ignore most opinion and stick to fact…verifiable fact. You only listen to opinion…the right wing media (it’s not news) feeds you nothing else….and it’s invariably feigned opinion based on misrepresentation of the facts. I can never accept claims you present that “my side is so wrong” because every time I investigate your accusations I find them based in lies and biased opinion and absolutely nothing more….like the election fraud fraud, pure fantasy…like BLM being responsible for Jan 6, pure fantasy. Like the Republicans being the “law and order” party, pure fantasy. (Turned on law enforcement 100% when they started being arrested for the failed coup, now wanting to completely defund all Federal law enforcement and erase espionage laws just to protect Donny from the crimes you know he committed.)

It’s possible this is about to become a non issue, thanks to Dominion. Most right wing propaganda networks slandered and libeled Dominion, and can’t afford $1.6 billion. Even Fox is going to change its tune, becoming much more careful about their baseless claims, while OAN and Newsmax, already relegated to the internet for the most part, will disappear. 😂

Pretty ridiculous for YOU to complain, especially to ME, about what facts are. You wouldn’t know a fact if it indicted you. I work hard to ignore opinion and find the underlying facts. You could set up a poll on who’s more trustworthy if you don’t want to take my word for it….but no voting with your sock puppets.

PS- I’m STILL WAITING to hear exactly what the charges against Clinton coming this week (4 years ago) are going to be. Whenever you make outrageously idiotic claims and are pressed, you ghost. I asked you that question for weeks, over and over and over, you had no response, only attempts to change the subject and ignore your own claim. That’s typical of you, far from an isolated incident it’s your MO.

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Democrats just can't allow a Conservative black to succeed. Thats racist.