What a simple fuckhead.

GoogTube, how about the way Bill Hicks puts it.... "Childbirth, a miracle? It's as much a miracle as eating a sandwich and having a big ol' turd come out later on."

LOL

Persephone, I don't have a lot of time to write, so apologies for being brief.

You're right about the video, I went back and listened to that part. I do believe he says that the amygdala shuts down at some point, but he didn't there.

However, even that quote is not quite right. Labor cannot be shut down so simply, especially because of the volume of adrenaline required to provide to create a reaction to the effects of oxytocin is sky-high, as in, must be artificially manufactured and injected, even for the stress of childbirth. On top of that, the evolutionary mechanism for such an interaction between fear and contractions, if it were actually true, is shoddy at best and more likely plain wrong. The oxytocin/adrenaline interaction mechanism is a complex one, and one that is not chemically antagonistic, especially since high levels of adrenaline are expected and in fact natural during and after birth, as well as during sex, and orgasms. If adrenaline and oxytocin couldn't work together, sex wouldn't be as fun as it is. In short, adrenaline does not neutralize oxytocin, nor do contractions just stop when adrenaline is released.

Since that particular argument is factual in nature, it's only fair if I quote you some sources. If you'll take a look at the three papers I have below, you'll notice that in no way do high-stress levels of adrenaline serve to interfere with contractions in a negative, non-regulatory manner, and that in fact, it has a beneficial effect at a natural (read: non-Epipen injection) level.

Contraction of the depolarized uterine muscle. Department of Normal Physiology, Sverdlovsk Medical Institute (Presented by Academician L. S. Persianinov, Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR). Translated from Byulleten'' Éksperimental''noi Biologii i Meditsiny, Vol. 68, No. 7, pp. 8–11, July, 1969.

Obstetric Outcome Following Epidural Analgesia with Bupivacaine-Adrenaline 0.25% or Bupivacaine 0.125% with Sufentanil-A Prospective Randomized Controlled Study in 1000 Parturients.
Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey. 53(9):533-534, September 1998.
Olofsson, Ch.; Ekblom, A.; Ekman-Ordeberg, G.; Irestedt, L.

or, perhaps most ironically: Why Natural Childbirth? Judith A. Lothian. J Perinat Educ. 2000 Fall; 9(4): 44–46.

Anyways, I agree hospitals do bad things, and there should be more oversight and regulation to prevent this. I have no problem with that, I have a problem with bad science.

You can email me or go to the Coffeehouse if you want, but it's probably not the best idea to continue this discussion on profile comments, perhaps a better setting would be in order. Cheers.

Persephone, I don't have a lot of time to write, so apologies for being brief.

You're right about the video, I went back and listened to that part. I do believe he says that the amygdala shuts down at some point, but he didn't there.

However, even that quote is not quite right. Labor cannot be shut down so simply, especially because of the volume of adrenaline required to provide to create a reaction to the effects of oxytocin is sky-high, as in, must be artificially manufactured and injected, even for the stress of childbirth. On top of that, the evolutionary mechanism for such an interaction between fear and contractions, if it were actually true, is shoddy at best and more likely plain wrong. The oxytocin/adrenaline interaction mechanism is a complex one, and one that is not chemically antagonistic, especially since high levels of adrenaline are expected and in fact natural during and after birth, as well as during sex, and orgasms. If adrenaline and oxytocin couldn't work together, sex wouldn't be as fun as it is. In short, adrenaline does not neutralize oxytocin, nor do contractions just stop when adrenaline is released.

Since that particular argument is factual in nature, it's only fair if I quote you some sources. If you'll take a look at the three papers I have below, you'll notice that in no way do high-stress levels of adrenaline serve to interfere with contractions in a negative, non-regulatory manner, and that in fact, it has a beneficial effect at a natural (read: non-Epipen injection) level.

Contraction of the depolarized uterine muscle. Department of Normal Physiology, Sverdlovsk Medical Institute (Presented by Academician L. S. Persianinov, Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR). Translated from Byulleten'' Éksperimental''noi Biologii i Meditsiny, Vol. 68, No. 7, pp. 8–11, July, 1969.

Obstetric Outcome Following Epidural Analgesia with Bupivacaine-Adrenaline 0.25% or Bupivacaine 0.125% with Sufentanil-A Prospective Randomized Controlled Study in 1000 Parturients.
Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey. 53(9):533-534, September 1998.
Olofsson, Ch.; Ekblom, A.; Ekman-Ordeberg, G.; Irestedt, L.

or, perhaps most ironically: Why Natural Childbirth? Judith A. Lothian. J Perinat Educ. 2000 Fall; 9(4): 44–46.

Anyways, I agree hospitals do bad things, and there should be more oversight and regulation to prevent this. I have no problem with that, I have a problem with bad science.

You can email me or go to the Coffeehouse if you want, but it's probably not the best idea to continue this discussion on profile comments, perhaps a better setting would be in order. Cheers.

Parents should not need to demand a natural birth. Healthy people should default to natural childbirth.

At our home birth, the midwife was qualified to deal with minor problems (a torn bit of skin hooked by an exiting toe that she stitched up in our case) and the hospital was standing by in case any serious problems arose.

this is not the video I would choose to head this cause, but upvote for the heated discussion.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

From your linked article gluonium:
The main causes of neonatal mortality in developing countries are infectious diseases (36% of cases): pneumonia, tetanus and diarrhoea. Premature births (27%) and asphyxia (23%) are also major causes of infant mortality. In 60 to 80% of deaths, the child’s weight is very low, a condition related to the mother’s state of health.

So again, I would say that the causes are a reflection of poor health, nutrition and disease. I will battle your Google-fu with a bit of my own:

"For the Netherlands, as the only country with a sizable proportion of natural childbirths (home birth as proxy)…Dutch national perinatal statistics from 1986 …found that perinatal mortality rates were much higher for obstetricians in hospitals than for midwife-attended home care or midwife-attended hospital care, at all levels of risk when controlling for gestation, maternal age and parity" (p. 17---from studies by Treffers and Laan 1986 and Tew and Damstra-Wijmenga 1991).

oh come on. fine, here is neonatal mortality rates only. note that the correlation with previous data is near perfect and that "Generally, half of all infant deaths occur when the baby is born at home with no medical care". Still not satisfied? ok then how bout skimming this especially grim estimate of perinatal (during childbirth) mortality rates? I again direct your attention to the graph on page two which demonstrates a SIXFOLD increased risk of stilbirth in developing nations over that of the developed world where the main cause of deaths in developing nations is again attributed to lack of professional medical care during the birth process. I'm sorry but I find the ignorant sillyness for which people so readily gamble with the lives of their own children (and themselves!) to be absolutely ghastly.

what a load of absolute twaddle. call me when the infant mortality rate of a nation like Angola where there are only "natural" (read: medically unassisted) births isn't THIRTY times the rate in a developed nation like the US. I DARE you to try to peddle this nonsense to a mother in sub-sahara Africa dying of hypovolemic shock from complications during pregnancy (where, I might remind you, that the death rate of mothers who are practically all giving natural childbirth is horrifically high at something like 4% while it is a mere ~1/4000 births in the US). I'm sorry, but birdshit and cyanide are natural and there's certainly nothing noble or wholesome about those things, I'm afraid this entire simpleminded argument disappears with the slightest puff of reason. and here it is.