@dystopianfuture ie: god as the projection of the self
krishnamurti as well - it just makes sense. indeed, our "version" of jesus is blond/blue eyed Caucasian. Most of the bible is about tribal norms and law. A simple question to any bible thumper is: which is more likely - god created us in HIS image, or we created him in OURS? I think, given the laws of probability, proportionality of the universe, and simple inductive reasoning, the answer is pretty clear.
We create a god, endow him with our "virtues", proclaim our godliness and our wisdom, and then pretextually justify just about any powerhungry, disgusting action we commit.

@SDGGundam
indeed, it is certainly hard to quantify that which remains un-quantifiable. "energy" in so many respects is something we really are just beginning to understand.

after the new year, i'm becoming a full member of this site. principally because some of the best, most thoughtful discussion on the net seems to take place here. I appreciate all of you. happy holidaze.

>> ^COriolanus:


How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a race problem. I am talking about the final solution to the black problem?
And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?
But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives agree that I am a racist.
They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.


wow, really.
It's not and never has been a problem about race. It's a problem with ignorance. If the mideast emigrated to Japan it would be just as well. Their people need to live in places that have come to understand values of free speech and anti-authoritarianism. First-worlders need to see that these are normal people just like everyone else. And yeah, I would call you a racist for seeing the problem and motivations as inherently race-based and latching onto that. Perhaps you have a different definition for the word. I don't understand why you'd have strong pride in your skin color. It's like you're saying all the blue eyes need to stop mingling with the general population since they'll become extinct over time. Blue-eyed power, huh. But I guess thanks for the reply.

>> ^EMPIRE:

I also love how he says Jesus has blue eyes.... lol... these idiots forgot that Jesus, if he actually existed, was born in the middle east. So I'm PRETTY sure he didn't have blue eyes.
Someone's been looking at whitened pictures of jesus.


Dude, didn't you know that middle-eastern people are just all dying to be white? Of course Jesus is Anglo-Saxon, what is wrong with you??!?!?!

I also love how he says Jesus has blue eyes.... lol... these idiots forgot that Jesus, if he actually existed, was born in the middle east. So I'm PRETTY sure he didn't have blue eyes.

Someone's been looking at whitened pictures of jesus.

I'm not terribly good with formatting these broken quotes, so excuse the cut off of your reply

There is definitely something to be said about standardising such a thing, I wouldn't be on board with a 2-day experiment as the norm, we don't really get to see if friendships were mended etc, so you have a point there. My comment was more about discussing the topic at that age level in a more serious way than just doing the old "ugly duckling" story.

There is something about discrimination that is hard to understand from just hearing it's wrong, it's horrible to wish the feeling upon someone but what I would try to aim for is the lighter more humbling discrimination. For example, if you come from a white dominant culture and travel to a different culture, you feel a little "reverse discrimination", it's not like a "I feel like crap for being hated" feeling, it's just more eye-opening.
>> ^MilkmanDan:

>> ^yellowc:
If you have an issue with the age of the kids in this video, maybe you should step back and actually listen to how they talk. They are MORE than capable of learning this lesson, I think people forget how switched on our brains are at that age. You'll also see they grew up just fine, why ignore that part when discussing how young they were.

I did listen to the kids. Many seemed highly uncomfortable with the experiment as it was happening (which is arguably the point), and their comments at the reunion as adults never really confirmed whether or not they were glad that they went through it in hindsight. I agree that young kids are often more clued in than we give them credit for, and also that this particular sample set "grew up just fine". I don't think that I ignored that in my original post - here's a snip:
>> ^MilkmanDan:
I think the teacher definitely had good intentions and arguably got good positive results; ie., her point was made and the lesson was learned, and learned in a much more weighty way than merely talking about it.
But to clarify, I still think that this particular methodology combined with this age group of students is a risky combination. If this was a standard teaching exercise probably most kids would go through it, benefit from learning the lesson, and have no real negative effects. But there would be a few for whom this experiment / lesson could potentially have long-lasting consequences; lost friends, confidence, etc. The consequences would probably not be severe, but eventually it boils down to a value assessment.
I'd concede the point that this technique teaches the lesson in a way that will have much more impact and be much more memorable than nearly any other (reasonable) approach. However I think that simply talking about discrimination at this age, asking the students to imagine how it would feel to be discriminated against on some arbitrary basis, etc. could have, say, 90% of the same positive effect. Follow that up with further contemplation, history, etc. when they are older and it might be 95-99% as effective. 99+% effectiveness with no risk of having things go too far seems most likely preferable to me.
I guess it is very open to differences in opinion, which is probably what makes it interesting. So, upvotes for the video and discussion!

>> ^yellowc:

If you have an issue with the age of the kids in this video, maybe you should step back and actually listen to how they talk. They are MORE than capable of learning this lesson, I think people forget how switched on our brains are at that age. You'll also see they grew up just fine, why ignore that part when discussing how young they were.

I did listen to the kids. Many seemed highly uncomfortable with the experiment as it was happening (which is arguably the point), and their comments at the reunion as adults never really confirmed whether or not they were glad that they went through it in hindsight. I agree that young kids are often more clued in than we give them credit for, and also that this particular sample set "grew up just fine". I don't think that I ignored that in my original post - here's a snip:
>> ^MilkmanDan:

I think the teacher definitely had good intentions and arguably got good positive results; ie., her point was made and the lesson was learned, and learned in a much more weighty way than merely talking about it.
But to clarify, I still think that this particular methodology combined with this age group of students is a risky combination. If this was a standard teaching exercise probably most kids would go through it, benefit from learning the lesson, and have no real negative effects. But there would be a few for whom this experiment / lesson could potentially have long-lasting consequences; lost friends, confidence, etc. The consequences would probably not be severe, but eventually it boils down to a value assessment.

I'd concede the point that this technique teaches the lesson in a way that will have much more impact and be much more memorable than nearly any other (reasonable) approach. However I think that simply talking about discrimination at this age, asking the students to imagine how it would feel to be discriminated against on some arbitrary basis, etc. could have, say, 90% of the same positive effect. Follow that up with further contemplation, history, etc. when they are older and it might be 95-99% as effective. 99+% effectiveness with no risk of having things go too far seems most likely preferable to me.

I guess it is very open to differences in opinion, which is probably what makes it interesting. So, upvotes for the video and discussion!

Tags for this video have been changed from 'social, experiment, blue eyes, brown eyes, racism, martin luther king' to 'social, experiment, blue eyes, brown eyes, racism, martin luther king, jane elliott' - edited by rasch187

I think the teacher definitely had good intentions and arguably got good positive results; ie., her point was made and the lesson was learned, and learned in a much more weighty way than merely talking about it.

However, the margin of error and the slim chance that there could be long-term fallout from this approach (estranged friendships that would have been fine minus your involvement, etc.) make it seem like I'd have to agree with @gargoyle and say the kids might be too young for this method.

I should watch the longer documentary to see if the teacher herself had any regrets or would have made any changes to her methodology after considering it hindsight. Did she ever try the same thing with a different group of kids? As a teacher, I imagine that it would be very difficult to watch either the dejected "brown eyed" kids OR the smug "blue eyes" on the playground and not feel quite a bit of doubt about the experiment.

Thanks for the quality!

In reply to this comment by Tymbrwulf:
*quality sift

In reply to this comment by legacy0100:
My my, what a way to screw with the innocent mind...

Seems you missed the very point the teacher was trying to convey. Instead of looking at it in an evil way to 'screw with innocent minds', maybe you need to see the necessity of the harsh lesson learned that day.

By that rational, we should never teach the hard/harsh lessons at all, because that would be 'screwing with innocence'. Instead, we should just "hope for the best" and let whatever may happen...happen. If you wait too long to teach these lessons, it's too late. Though this doesn't surprise me that you and others feel this way...as this seems to be the prevalent way to teach these days. Merely ignoring the harsh realities in life and teaching sunshine and rainbows 101.

Far be it for me to dispute the seeming popular opinions of VS, but, IMO, it's never too early to learn a lesson like this one, harsh or not.

Your video, Teaching Blue-Eyed Children to Hate Brown-Eyed Children, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

I remember this video from a psychology class in college. In the longer version, the teacher reverses the roles the next day with brown eyes being "superior" and blue eyes being "inferior." At the end of that day she tells the class the experiment is over and they can throw away the handkerchiefs they had to wear and you see the kids trying to tear them to pieces with their hands and teeth.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
Awesome reference!!

In reply to this comment by garmachi:
And every twenty years or so, hooded wolves with lasers ride in on mechanical horses, steal one of each pair and send them back months later, roont.

I'm glad someone got it!

Awesome reference!!

In reply to this comment by garmachi:
And every twenty years or so, hooded wolves with lasers ride in on mechanical horses, steal one of each pair and send them back months later, roont.

Turns out it's her interpretation of an Icelandic poem. Here is the english translation.

Bjork - Vigil

My farm
my farm and yours
sleeps happily at peace
falls snow
silent at dusk on earth
my grass
my grass and yours
keeps the earth til spring

Nesting spring
hid at the hill's root
awake as are we
faith in life
quiet cold spring
eye of the depths
into the firmament
staring still in the night

Far away
wakes the great world
mad with grim enchantment
disquieted
fearful of night and day
your eyes
fearless and serene
smile bright at me

My hope
your blest smile
rouses verse from sleep
the earths rests
silent in arms of snow
lily white
closes her blue eyes
my little girl