@GeeSussFreeK

I tried to stay way from issues specific to the use of nuclear technology for a reason. There's very little in your reply that I can respond to, simply for a lack of expertise. So bear with me if I once again attempt to generalize and abstract some points. And I'll try to keep it shorter this time.

You mentioned how construction times and costs are pushed up by the constant evolution of compliance codes. A problem not exclusive to the construction of power plants, but maybe more pronounced in these cases. No matter.

What buggers me, however, is what you can currently observe in real time at the EPR construction sites in Olkiluoto and Flamanville.
For instance, the former is reported to have more than 4000 workers from over 60 nations, involving more than 1500 sub-contractors. It's basically the Tower of Babylon, and the quality of work might be similar as well. Workers say, they were ordered to just pour concrete over inadequate weld seams to get things done in time, just to name an example. They are three years over plan as of now, and it'll be at least 2-3 more before completion.
And Flamanville... here's some of what the French Nuclear Safety Authority had to say about the construction site: "concrete supports look like Swiss cheese", "walls with gaping holes", "brittle spots without a trace of cement".

Again, this is not exclusive to the construction of NPPs. Almost every large scale construction site in Europe these days looks like this, except for whatever the Swiss are doing: kudos to them, wonderful work indeed. But if they mess up the construction of a train station, they don't run a risk of ruining the ground water and irradiating what little living space we have in Europe as it is.

Then you explain the advantages of small scale, modular reactors. Again, no argument from my side on the feasability of this, I have to take your word on it. But looking at how the Russians dispose of their old nuclear reactors (bottom of the Barents Sea) and how Germany disposes of its nuclear waste (dropped down a hole), I don't fancy the idea of having even more reactors around.

As for prices, I have to raise my hands in surrender once again. Not my area of expertise, my knowledge is limited to whatever analysis hits the mainstream press every now and then. Here's my take on it, regarding just the German market: the development, construction, tax exemption, insurance exemption, fuel transport and waste disposal of the nuclear industry was paid for primarly by taxes. Conservative government estimates were in the neighbourhood of €300B since the sixties, in addition to the costs of waste disposal and plant deconstruction that the companies can't pay for. And that's if nothing happens to any of the plants, no flood, no fire, nothing.

That's not cheap. E.ON and RWE dropped out of the bid on construction permits for new NPPs in GB, simply because it's not profitable. RWE CEO Terium mentioned ~100€/MWh as the minimum base price to make new NPPs profitable, 75.80€/MWh for gas-powered plants. Right now, the base (peak) price is at 46€/MWh (54€/MWh) in Germany. France generates ~75% of its power through NPPs, while Germany is getting plastered with highly subsidized wind turbines and solar panels, yet the market price for energy is lower in Germany.

Yes, the conditions are vastly different in the US, and yes, the next generation of NPPs might be significantly cheaper and safer to construct and run. I'm all for research in these areas. But on the field of commercial energy generation, nuclear energy just doesn't seem to cut it right now.

So let's hop over to safety/dangers. Again, priorities might differ significantly and I can only argue from a central European perspective. As cold-hearted as it may sound, the number of direct casualties is not the issue. Toxicity and radiation is, as far as I'm concerned. All our NPPs are built on rivers and the entire country is rather densely populated. A crashing plane might kill 500 people, but there will be no long term damage, particularly not to the water table. The picture of an experimental waste storage site is disturbing enough as it is, and it wasn't even "by accident" that some of these chambers are now flooded by ground water.

Apologies if I ripped anything out of context. I tried to avoid the technicalities as best as I could in a desperate attempt not to make a fool of myself. Again.

And sorry for not linking any sources in many cases. Most of it was taken from German/Swiss/Austrian/French articles.

>> ^tedbater:

>> ^Drachen_Jager:
You do know that the bible calls for similar things right?
All religion is bad.

Really? Where?
Please back statements like this up.


Are you even slightly serious?

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

This is just a sampling, should I go on?

/watches netrunner and blankfist spar..
eh..im part of the WHIG party..oh wait,yeah..forgot about that.
they are TOAST!
ok..after watching this 15-16 yr old?
i have decided im going libertarian.
aaah man,who am i kidding! im an anarchist!
fuck em all,bring the whole putrid heap down in a firey ball of scandal and revolution.
wake me when the whole ball of wax is going to shit-town,ill be sleeping on QM's couch.
i vote netrunner for diplomatic leader,and blankfist defense minister(so he can blow stuff up).

politicians have consistently used the dreams and visions of the common man to invoke,insight and otherwise inspire good people to do things they normally would not do.they are the whores of babylon,and i will not give one ounce of trust to them.it is the community in which i live that i place my care and trust,local government is where change REALLY starts.

/end incoherent rant

Man, my opinion of choggie just gets lower and lower. I see a lot of people arguing over the way in which this came to pass (law wise), which I'm not going to enter, as I'm not American or pretend to know your legal system. But for choggie to state "flagrant and open homosexuality has been invariably associated the decline of great civs, hence, the reference to Belshazzar of Babylon." and to downvote this on apparently that measure... well, that's a lot of hate there.

Please demonstrate where homosexuality has brought down civilizations outside of fairy tales and fantastical retelling of real world events.

And why the F*ck does it matter if two guys or two girls get married, how does it affect you AT ALL? Geeze, let people love each other regardless of race or sex, just let people be. They aren't hurting you, they aren't hurting me, they certainly don't seem to be hurting each other, just leave them be.

[edit] and as usual, Jon Stewart says it very eloquently.

What in particular? The whole spiel or the use of figurative references? Lemme translate-
-I'm no holy roller
-I know humans, animals, and I know history
-the "spiral" refers to the evolution of societies, empires, iterations of civilizations and their time lines, all have a beginning, middle, and end.
-flagrant and open homosexuality has been invariably associated the decline of great civs, hence, the reference to Belshazzar of Babylon.
-and I added a bit to the last comment, from the court record you reference-
San Francisco is a showcase for many things-lived there for 6 years-
The current mayor(worthless yes-man, run the city into the ground during his admin. faster than others), the one emotionally commenting (sound bites)on this auspicious occasion which was pretty much a unilateral effort on the part of some of the most radical and out-of-synche examples of the homosexual activist community in San Fran, to undermine majority public opinion for the sake of their own-fuck em. They don't deserve preferential treatment-on the contrary, they already have it....a whole town to play in, walk down the streets publicly during city-sanctioned events wearing only a cock-ring and pasties-(not all of em, some still have some dignity)
This is not a sign that a country is strong, healthy, or resolute in furthering positive societal evolution with a view to longevity-on the contrary, it has been an historical invariability towards a lower path-self-realization and actualization being the universal imperative-

Licenses for childbirth.
Most parents in the US are unfit to "raise" a child, though there are currently no guidelines for stupid motherfuckers who can't keep from fucking even though they know they are unfit to raise another human being (not simply food, clothes, and shelter either.....most animals are instinctually capable)

The more young adults I encounter, the worse this phenomenon seems to be playing itself out. Ever see Idiocracy??? That's the choggie vision of a future left to idyllically click along, like most folks seem to think the world will continue......

abortion???
a goddamn symptom of a greater psychic ill we suffer from as humans-addiction to Babylon, and this world's contrived, and fubar'd paradigm......