@bcglorf

i attempt to convey a point and you shift the point.
i address the point you move the goal posts.

ok..how about this.
lets say i agree that sometimes force is a necessary tool?
(which i do actually).
and how about we amend that YOU as an american stay the fuck out of it and sit your pretentious ass down and let those who actually would benefit do the violence.

or is YOUR force somehow more righteous and noble than some others?

hypocrisy AND arrogance..
yeah..they hate us for our freedom.thats it...has to be.
wouldnt happen to have anything to do with us being pretentious hypocritical cunts.

sorry man.
i have failed to convey a point that to me is self evident and non-controversial.

we as a country are cunts.arrogant,hypocritical cunts.
who are just scared over-grown children.

the army is accepting applications.maybe you can be a drone pilot and kill you some brown people!
you seem awfully enthusiastic in bringing the violence.
america hurrah..fuck yeah.

sorry bc.
cant help ya.
seems my failure is total.

These are great. It's like Professor X studied at the Dr. Evil School of How to be an Arrogant Sarcastic A$$hole.

I did not say "have to", but I do think the idea that a common design points to a common designer is undeniable. If it is arrogant to say that, I don't see how. Neither do I see how it could be refuted, or even why anyone would try to refute it. Note that I am entering the idea as a possible explanation and not saying it is the only possible conclusion one might come to, barring further evidence. I think it is obvious, but I didn't always.

"only to some"

Actually, to most..even in America, the idea of evolution being an unguided process is believed by a small minority of people(15 percent). The majority of Americans believe in creationism:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/americans-believe-in-creationism_n_1571127.html

"...have to...undeniable...." This unfortunately may only be attributed by some as ill considered arrogance and refutable on the face of it.

whatever you need to tell yourself, kiddo.

If you're so smart, tell me, why all the hostility?

Intelligence misapplied ain't intelligence. It's arrogance.

@Yogi
im gonna go out on a limb and guess you never dealt with the courts and CPS.

i have and this mans experience resembles my own.
i realize this is not conclusive proof of anything.my evidence would be anecdotal.

i had children with two women,
feel free to judge me,i dont care,the courts and CPS judged me plenty so i am used to it.

my two oldest boys were with a woman who i remained friendly with which translated to a fantastic relationship with my boys.i never experienced the courts nor CPS in any negative fashion.

conversely my two youngest boys were with a sociopath (no hyperbole here)
.we have no relationship.in fact we are totally enstranged.
tragic in all regards.

she used the courts to punish me.
she used CPS to harrass me.

and the attitudes of CPS were so much like this purple chick.
that somehow THEY knew better and they NEVER questioned the mother.
in fact one CPS "counselor" went as far as trying to force me to relinquish my parental rights.

when you get caught in this system you realize a few things very quickly.
1.fathers are the enemy
2.they know better than you
3.you know nothing
4.if the mother makes an allegation then it MUST be true
5.if YOU make an allegation you are just being contrary and bitter

the one CPS counselor was terminated due to falsifying records.
no shock here.

i have sat through interviews almost identical as what this man is experiencing.
the difference is i am a much more adept debater than this poor dad is.

i do not suffer fools lightly and when in regards to my children i am unrelenting.
i also realized fairly early that the CPS workers never had my nor my boys best interests at heart.
they spoke in legalese and authority but it was evident it was all about control.
to control me and dictate how i was as a parent.

ah...i remember those schoolings with fondness.a certain satisfaction in putting an arrogant,self-important knowitall in their place.

but in the end i still didnt get to see my kids.
so who is the loser eh?

goddammit.now im depressed......

you are sounding more and more like an anarchist.
you didnt click the link i shared did you?
it explained in basic form the type of anarchy i subscribe to.

which leads us further into the rabbit hole of governments role.
which by your response it appears i need to describe a tad further.

so lets change the question from:
"what is governments role?"
to
"what,if at all,is the FEDERAL governments role"?

which of course we can refer to the federalist papers or the articles of confederacy.
one is a great argument in regards to what federal powers should be the other was an absolute failure and needed to be discarded.(too much anarchy lol)

that argument is still going on today.
well,between people like you and i,not from the political class.

i agree with your position.
i may word mine differently but our views are in alignment for the most part.

what i do find interesting is how a person with a more right leaning ideology will point to the government and say "there..thats the problem"
while someone from a more left leaning will point to corporations as the main culprit.

you need to understand i point to both.
hence my "plutocracy" argument.
so while you are correct that a corporation cannot throw you in jail,they can and DO influence our legislation (in the form of alec,lobbyists,campaign funding) to enact laws which may make anything their competitors do "illegal" or keep them out of the market completely.or make anything they do "legal".both governments and corporations do this for their own survival and self-interest.

the war on drugs and the private prison system come to mind.since weed is becoming more and more acceptable "illegal" immigrants will become the new fodder for the prison.

in my humble opinion most people all want the same things in regards to a civilized society.
fairness,justice and truth.

now how we get there is the REAL discussion (like you and i are having right now).

i agree the federal government should have limited powers but i recognize government DOES play a role.i believe in the inherent moral goodness of people.that if pressed,most people will do the right thing.

this is why i think that governments should be more localized.we could use the "states rights" argument but i would take it further into townships,local communities and municipalities.

for this to even have a chance this country would have to shake off its induced apathetic coma and participate and become informed.

no easy task.
in fact,what both you and i are suggesting is no easy task.
but worthy..so very very worthy.

active citizenship basically.

when we consider the utter failures of:
our political class.
the outright betrayal of our intellectual class who have decided to serve privilege and power at the neglect of justice and truth for their own personal advancement,
and the venal corporate class.

which all have served,wittingly or unwittingly, to create the corporate totalatarian surveillance state we now find ourselves living in.
there can be ONLY one recourse:

we,as citizens,have to demand a better way.
not through a political system that is dysfunctional and broken and only serves the corporate state while giving meaningless and vapid rhetoric to the people.

nor can this be achieved by violent uprising,which would only serve to give the state the reason to perpetrate even greater violence.

we cannot rely on our academic class which has sold itself for the betterment of its own hubris and self-aggrandizing.

even the fourth estate,which has been hamstrung so completely due to its desire for access to power,it has been enslaved by the very power it was meant to watchdog.

the institutions that existed 50 years ago to put pressure on the levers of power are gone,destroyed and crushed or outright abandoned.

when we look at american history.the ACTUAL history we find that never,not ONCE,did the american government EVER give something to the people.those rights and privileges were hard fought for by social movements.
in fact,america had the longest and bloodiest of labor movements on the planet.
the woman sufferagists.
the liberty party in its stance against slavery.
the civil rights movement.

it is the social movements which put pressure,by way of fear,on the political class.

we have seen the tea party rise and get consumed by the republican political class.

we saw occupy rise up to be crushed in a coordinated effort by the state.this was obama that did this yet little was ever spoken about it.

power is petrified of peoples movements.

there will be another movement.
i do not know when or how it will manifest.
i just hope it will not be violent.

because that is the only way to combat the power structures we are being subjected to today.
civil disobedience.
and i aim to misbehave.

this starts exactly how you and i are talking.
it is the conversation which sparks the idea which ignites a passion which turns into a burning flame.

i am a radical.
a dissident.
but radical times call for radical thinking.

you and i both want fairness,justice and truth.
everybody does.
some of our philosophy overlaps,other parts do not.
we discuss the parts that do not overlap to better understand each other.
this forms a bond of empathy and understanding.
which makes it far more harder to demonize each other in terms of the political class and propaganda corporate tv.

the power elite do not want me to understand you,nor you to empathize with me.
that does not serve their interests.
fear and division serve their interests.
hyper-nationalistic xenophobia serves their interests.

i aim to disappoint them.

now go watch that video i posted for ya.
when ya got time of course lol.

maybe it will help if i share the people i admire.
chomsky,zinn,hedges,watts,harvey,roy,
just some of the people who have influenced me greatly.

anyways.
loving this conversation.
i am in 3 other debates with highly educated people.
nowhere near as polite and awesome as you.
then again..i am kicking the crap out of them.
arrogance really annoys me,makes me vulgar and beligerent.
peace brother man.

Chris - assaults somebody for no reason in a situation he's not even involved in
Wimpy - rather than helping someone and taking a stand against an arrogant dick, took the easy way out and refused to get involved
Brutus - showed questionable morals by offering a ride for sex, but Olive was free to refuse the deal so it's not comparable to sexual assault
Popeye - Reacted predictably

Don't know where to put Olive on this list. It depends on her own views about sex outside a committed relationship and any understanding she had with Popeye.

I'm lacking in respect, huh? Fuck you, pal. I disagreed with you, and I did so pretty vehemently because I feel very strongly that you are wrong. Do you somehow think that you are entitled to judge everybody else by your impossible standards while staying safe from reproach and disagreement up in your ivory tower? And I'm the one with the ego, sure.

Now, look. I have two friends who are way into blacksmithing (and I'm actually going to try this out a bit when it becomes feasible for me to have a forge and anvil (I don't think my current neighbours would like it if I suddenly started pounding metal in my back yard)) and many others who have spent years working in construction. One of them even broke his back doing it. They have their primary skills and I've got mine, and while there is a slight overlap (since we all love to learn new things and tend to do so from each other), we all have to recognize that we are different people who are good at different things.

Because the really fucking simple truth is that life isn't perfect, and neither are human beings. We also have a finite amount of time and a finite amount of energy, and unless you are some sort of crazy person who doesn't have any limits and will work yourself until you keel over, you're going to have a few things you do well and a few things you do less well. Deal with it. What is happening here is that you've got some jacked up übermensch fantasy you can't possibly live up to, so you judge others instead of just taking your expectations down to a more realistic level.

Oh, and by the way - I love how your response was essentially just one big throbbing ad hominem. Don't have anything meaningful to say? Don't worry; you can always call the other guy an arrogant jerk! That'll show him! Nice job there, buddy. You really got me good.

Pronunciation: /ˈʃiːp(ə)l/
Noun
Derogatory

People compared to sheep in being docile, foolish, or easily led: "By the time the sheeple wake up and try to change things, it will be too late."

Origin:

1940s: blend of sheep and people

And this is, in my experience, what 90% of the world's human population is like. I would prefer it if wasn't true, because I'm lonely and I'm tired of always having to watch what I say so I don't wind up accidentally offending half the people in the room just by using a word they've never heard before (but which I think is a perfectly ordinary word). I'm tired of never being allowed to be interested in, or enthusiastic about, something that requires you to actually use your brain, and I am tired of the fact that noone I meet - not even teachers who've studied at an accredited university - seems to have even the most basic understanding of science, and for the life of them can't understand why an emotional argument holds less water than a rational one.

I'm really far from being a genius, and frankly, I am not very arrogant or pretentious. I try hard to ensure that anybody who speaks to me feels at ease, and that they feel like the things they say to me are being heard and understood. Because honestly, that's all I ever ask for - a conversation between equals. However, I am just dead fucking tired of living in a society that just seems to sink deeper and deeper into stupidity. It's as if I'm stuck in front of a great, frothing wave of stolid ignorance, and there is just no escape from it.

So, yes. Sheeple. Everywhere. There's just no getting away from them.

So, uh, who the fuck are you to go off on me like this? The bill didn't pass the next day, it passed a few days later. Either way her performance was ineffectual. Kinda like your arrogance.

And I say "elections have consequences" because elections have consequences. Because when Texas merely sits on it's ass as the elites erode rights, there are consequences.

I started to argue with you, it was a good one too. All about relevance and irrelevance and civil disobedience. But then I realized that my point was, nobody cares. And then I realized that I don't care.

I realized that having political opinions bears little difference to having religious ones. There's so much faith, too many assumptions, too much arrogance, side picking, divisiveness, manipulation and social control involved in both. So I'm agnostic. Both politically as well religiously. The issues are too big, too convoluted, and too interconnected for me to actually know or understand whats going on... and it sounds like arrogance to me now when someone talks politics. Particularly when it comes down to the silliness of assigning traits and personalities and connotations to words like republican or democrat. It's an arrogant, binary way to look at something. And it reeks of brain washing.

So my point again, fuck it. Imma read some books and go to bed.

I had 4 Demotivators at my desk 12 years ago:

I put this one up for our $280/hr consultant who managed to make the system less useable, less stable, and/or less maintainable every time he visited.

I put this one and this one up for my boss who routinely threatened to fire everyone or kill everyone when he found out that we were implementing his moronic "vision" to the letter and that it would never work.

Lastly, my person favorite, for the entire MIS department, because everyone's most refined skill was finger-pointing.

I have an issue with the 2nd "Fact" that everyone liked what they had. That's just stupid, nobody likes what they have, up to 85% in polls wanted single payer health care, it's the rich and the drug and insurance companies that didn't want it. So they got Obama elected and he put in a slightly better system that still benefits the wealthy and hurts people, which is why people saw this system and didn't like it, got angry about it.

The Nobel Prize thing is funny to me because it's hardly an award, horrible war criminals have the Nobel Prize to their name, if anything it's an indicator of how fucking awful you are.

He isn't the most Arrogant, that's totally Trump, but it would be hard to find anyone who wasn't the president or didn't want to be the president who isn't arrogant.

Stay thirsty for knowledge my friends.

Reminds me of yet another ironic result of our "war against terror"... the gross ignorance, arrogance, blinders-on patriotism, and raging authoritarianist bend of a new species of rightie nutter that has slithered onto dry land since 9/11.