I had a mixed breed dog Sheba,at thirteen she got breast cancer.Operation a success,gradually she got less mobile,I was prepared for her passing at any time after this.My former lover offered to help in her care when she was 17,trouble walking,but the vet said if her appetite was ok,she did not need to be put down.We made a cart out of an old baby buggy,she would roll around the yard with her front legs working.Sometimes we would carry her around to let her pee.She seemed very comfortable with this arrangement till at 19 and half she passed in her sleep.I deeply value the time spent with her as any one would, should with an aging and dependent relative.

How does a thirteen year old talking about ANYTHING prove the case about ANYTHING?

Seriously, I want to know what the thought process was when they thought it was a good idea to drag the kid out there and make him talk.

Did they honestly think the headlines would read: "Liberalism dead in America because of 13 year old's speech"

Can you imagine hitting your head hard enough to cause you to sneeze thirteen times in a row? Picture that for a minute.

>> ^Boise_Lib:


That position shows a tendency to think of a god as one already defined by a religion.
If Yahweh shows up I'll be one of the first to join your resistance movement. I'm absolutely against anyone, or thing, that shows the pettiness, jealousy, and just plan babyishness of Yahweh having any control over human beings.
But, what about something (this is why I don't use the word "god"), which is benevolently seeking knowledge through it's extrusions--(that's us)--into this space-time we inhabit.
If we are all part of this thing can it really be abhorrent?
My point is if there is something else out there, we--as a species--have no idea what that might be (all religions are wrong).

Well, you're kinda redefining the terms of the debate (not that your point isn't interesting or valid). In broad terms, I agree with you. If it turns out that we are part of some benevolent science experiment of just the expression of the universe made conscious or the force or any one of a hundred ideas we've all had stoned, I won't rush out to take up arms against that.

But I don't really believe in that. I don't have to contend with it. What I do have to contend with is mainstream religion (and while we're at it, faulty thinking around astrology, homoeopathy, etc). It's a man made thing, but on the extreme outside chance they're right, well, I've posted this before, but it's still a great quote, so take it away Carl Marsalis

"Even if you could convince a variant thirteen, against all the evidence, that there really was a god? He'd just see him as a threat to be eliminated. If god were demonstrably real? Guys like me would just be looking for ways to find him and burn him down."



>> ^Boise_Lib:

[Sidepoint: The mixture of taste sensations evinced by the salty, savory ham and the sweet, sour pineapple enmeshed in melty cheese is a glorious thing.]


Heretic!

Hmmm... I don't get it. What's siftable about this video?

Now *this* would be a siftable version of this, from thirteen (yes, thirteen!) years ago...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wxBO28j3vug#t=127s

after watching this, the main thing that strikes my mind is what if buehler had just been some ordinary joe shmoe and not a west pt grad/army vet/stanford mba...

would he be in more serious trouble? would this have still made the news? if so, to the same degree? and what does that say about our media?

he'll have all charges dropped, i'm sure, if the police dashcam doesn't show him intentionally spitting on the officer... but i doubt he'll have any tortious legal claim

aside from all of that... this whole snafu just highlights for me again how aggressive us police officers can be -- i've spent close to two decades as an american living in asia, thirteen of those years in taiwan... the difference between the police at home and those here is night and day...

patrol cars here actually drive around, very slowly, with their police lights lit at all times - this struck me as odd initially, but i came to realize that it acts as a deterrent to lawlessness - there're also no speed traps, and if you're stopped by the police, they're always very courteous... almost apologetic

there are a few downsides to this though... they're slow to respond to calls for help, and practically do backflips in order avoid any sort of paperwork on their part

i often wonder about what the cause of such differences (i.e. aggressiveness / discourtesy) between the two might be -- part of it is certainly the fact that everyday americans have ready access to firearms, whereas the only armed taiwanese are gangsters -- another aspect i suspect is the level of officer empowerment by the local government (e.g. us officers are given an enormous amount of power to be used and/or abused, while taiwanese police for the most part act as society's shepherds in uniform)

how to reconcile these differences, and perhaps reach a happy medium?

just another person clinging on to hope that the current system won't fail, because he's doing quite well out of it thank you very much. It already failed good sir, that's why the protesters are in the streets, and they aren't stopping any time soon.

For anyone repeating the 'protesters have no demands' rhetoric, perhaps try reading? These were posted 10 days ago.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending “Freetrade” by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America’s nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the “Books.” World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the “Books.” And I don’t mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.



Once you've read them, and realize that there are actually demands, and that they have been posted for quite a while now, understand that the movement, by necessity has to be leaderless, so coming up with demands needs to be done in an organic fashion taking into account a variety of viewpoints - this takes TIME. On that note, expect the demands to change and improve with time, those demands are just a snapshot. The whole point of the protests is that things have just gotten rediculous, there are so many issues the Government is not dealing with, so what would be the point of protesting against just one issue?

Protests can involve more than one issue? How unthinkable!!!

>> ^hpqp:

That nobleman stands in for God/Jeebs in that parable. But you should ask shiny, for him we're all slaves to the all-powerful dictator, only some of us (that is the evil atheists) are rebellious against his power.

I like Richard Morgans view on it

"Even if you could convince [a man like me], against all the evidence, that there really was a god? He’d just see him as a threat to be eliminated. If God were demonstrably real? Guys like me would just be looking for ways to find him and burn him down."

>> ^dannym3141:

Alien, i don't think this is a race riot at all. Otherwise we'd be seeing more specifically targetted attacks against people, one thing the riots haven't had too badly which is very surprising.
You could call this class riots if you wanted to; this is the rioting of the little chavvy bastard kids who have all been promised superstar futures - they don't think they have to work hard for a living, they don't think they're the people who have to be binmen or janitors. Perhaps with the increase in tuition fees they're not thinking about university and now they're facing up to leaving school and getting a shit job.
It's not new - the university system is just a great place to educate EVERYONE poorly and give us millions of extremely qualified simpletons who now think they don't deserve to work as binmen or cleaners, but by that time they'd reached an age where they had to put up, shut up, and get a crap job. So maybe now people are realising at an earlier age that there's no superstar future for them and they're angry.
That could be a small bit of it. But most of all, it's a riot of little chavvy bastard kids who no longer have any respect (due to declining discipline at home and at school, thanks molly coddle culture) nor any fear for the pitiful consequences that follow.
Whilst i've been out - shopping, exercising, walking, socialising - I've been spoken to by PARENTS or people of parenting age like i was a piece of shit. I've been told to fuck off for telling someone "look out!" when they nearly crossed the tram tracks near me when a tram was coming; a parent with fucking kids! That's the kind of thing you expect 13 year olds to do and it's being done by the people who are raising or have raised our thirteen year olds! What then are the next 13 year olds gonna turn out like? Well, see for yourself right now.
Go and ask a retired teacher the state of affairs cos just like my dad they'll tell you; 30 years ago, a parent would come in on parents evening and hear that their kid was misbehaving and their kid would get in DEEP shit and start booking their ideas up 99% of the time. Nowadays and in recent times, parents are far more likely to shout at the fucking TEACHER if their kid is misbehaving. Either "why are you keeping my kid in detention all the time, are you a bully?" or "why aren't you teaching my kid discipline?" or sometimes BOTH one after the fucking other.
Fuck this fucking country man. Rant over.


I don't think it is either dude, see some of my recent comments. I thought I made my posting intention plain in the summary, that whether this is a race thing or not, plenty of people will believe it to be and the BNP will benefit from this.

Alien, i don't think this is a race riot at all. Otherwise we'd be seeing more specifically targetted attacks against people, one thing the riots haven't had too badly which is very surprising.

You could call this class riots if you wanted to; this is the rioting of the little chavvy bastard kids who have all been promised superstar futures - they don't think they have to work hard for a living, they don't think they're the people who have to be binmen or janitors. Perhaps with the increase in tuition fees they're not thinking about university and now they're facing up to leaving school and getting a shit job.

It's not new - the university system is just a great place to educate EVERYONE poorly and give us millions of extremely qualified simpletons who now think they don't deserve to work as binmen or cleaners, but by that time they'd reached an age where they had to put up, shut up, and get a crap job. So maybe now people are realising at an earlier age that there's no superstar future for them and they're angry.

That could be a small bit of it. But most of all, it's a riot of little chavvy bastard kids who no longer have any respect (due to declining discipline at home and at school, thanks molly coddle culture) nor any fear for the pitiful consequences that follow.

Whilst i've been out - shopping, exercising, walking, socialising - I've been spoken to by PARENTS or people of parenting age like i was a piece of shit. I've been told to fuck off for telling someone "look out!" when they nearly crossed the tram tracks near me when a tram was coming; a parent with fucking kids! That's the kind of thing you expect 13 year olds to do and it's being done by the people who are raising or have raised our thirteen year olds! What then are the next 13 year olds gonna turn out like? Well, see for yourself right now.

Go and ask a retired teacher the state of affairs cos just like my dad they'll tell you; 30 years ago, a parent would come in on parents evening and hear that their kid was misbehaving and their kid would get in DEEP shit and start booking their ideas up 99% of the time. Nowadays and in recent times, parents are far more likely to shout at the fucking TEACHER if their kid is misbehaving. Either "why are you keeping my kid in detention all the time, are you a bully?" or "why aren't you teaching my kid discipline?" or sometimes BOTH one after the fucking other.

Fuck this fucking country man. Rant over.

Not to mention the fact that 'creating jobs' isn't some selfless act of altruism, it's a normal part of running a business, and it's certainly no cause for being excused from civic responsibilities. >> ^DuoJet:

"... THEN he CREATED thirteen THOUSAND JOBS!!!"
Great, but how many jobs were lost as a result of outsourcing HR duties to Paychex?

"... THEN he CREATED thirteen THOUSAND JOBS!!!"

Great, but how many jobs were lost as a result of outsourcing HR duties to Paychex?

>> ^Stormsinger:

I may even have to go to the theater to see this one. An alien invasion of the old West seems worthwhile, and a topless Thirteen makes it something of a no-brainer.
Although, to be honest, I couldn't even make a good guess as to Wilde's chestsize...I've never been able to take my eyes off of her face when she's onscreen. She has the most amazing cheekbones I've ever seen.


Are you kidding? She's TERRIFYING! When she opens her eyes wide she looks like she's going to devour your soul!

Also...newly single.

I may even have to go to the theater to see this one. An alien invasion of the old West seems worthwhile, and a topless Thirteen makes it something of a no-brainer.

Although, to be honest, I couldn't even make a good guess as to Wilde's chestsize...I've never been able to take my eyes off of her face when she's onscreen. She has the most amazing cheekbones I've ever seen.