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Jon Stewart Goes Off On Chicago Deep Dish Pizza

enoch says...

@Grimm
i wasnt trying to convince you one way or the other.
i consumed both kinds of pizza.
new york>chicago pizza (the pan style.i agree with @chingalera on the thin crust pizza).
so its just my opinion.

all i was saying is if you liked chicago pan style you hated kittens and puppies.

so why do you hate kittens and puppies?
you cruel bastard.

Jon Stewart Goes Off On Chicago Deep Dish Pizza

enoch says...

i lived in chicago for a spell many years ago.
great people.
great music.
deep dish pizza can suck a dick.
though the hot dogs are pretty damn good,as are the brats (which i had never had before).
northeast pizza reigns supreme,deny this and you hate kittens and puppies.

why do you hate kittens and puppies?

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Trancecoach (Member Profile)

enoch says...

read your response.
a lot of postulating and assumptions.
i know (or assume) not with ill-intent,but still there.
gonne have to go bullet form here..blech..loathe bullet form.
please forgive.

1.i did not suggest "full-blown" socialism.nor did i suggest we do what has been tried in the past.
silly,un-imaginative tripe fed by over-paid and dull thinking professors.
ever wonder why there is an economics course and a business admin course?
there is a reason for that.one is theory the other practical application.
and economists get it wrong...and often.

2.you mentioned twice socialism in relation to fascism.
are you aware they are not even on the same playing card?
meh..i guess we could call the corporate socialism we have now a form of fascism...but it would be a stretch.
do not confuse a political system with an economic one.

3.you think everything should be subject to a free market.even firefighters,police and roads.
i do not think you thought that particular nugget through.

the problems with socialism are well documented and well understood.
as are the problems with capitalism.
the real problems arise when things are not taught properly.

problems arise when people are taught that democracy and capitalism are somehow like peas and carrots.meant for each other.
that they are the end all be all and make jesus smile.

corporate propaganda bullshit.
france is a democracy.
they have capitalism AND socialism.
in fact..when you look how how many of the european socialist countries are doing and compare them to..well..us.they seem to be doing quite well for themselves.
so i dont know where you get your "socialism is a failure" idea from.

i guess i owe you an apology.you thought i was attacking you in some manner.not at all.
i was stating your right to disagree with me.

i was not conflating that somehow socialized medicine is somehow better or produces better health and that somehow a free market person wants death to all kittens.

my point is that health care should be a collective project but i believe i also entertained a free market solution as well.
BUT..the playing field has to..MUST..be level for all players.
it appears that some of my comments you took as directed towards you my friend.
this is not the case.
unless you ARE healthcare and in that case i am in the matrix.

the quote i posted is from adam smith.from his stellar book 'wealth of nations".
too bad his words have been twisted and contorted to not even have the same meaning anymore.oftentimes it is professors who perpetrate this travesty.

what adam smith was trying to convey is that for a free market to truly work as balancing agent and force corrector there had to be absolute liberty.
but we dont have that do we?
therefore it stands to reason we cannot have a free market.

ok ok.
i do not "feel" we live in a plutocracy.
i know it.
a legislation that has been purchased by wall street and corporate elite to enact laws which benefit them and their companies in the form of capital gain is..by definition..plutocracy.

smart ass

look man.
i think we are coming from the same place but have come to different conclusions.
you know..opinions.

you mentioned cuba as an example of poor socialized medicine.
well allow me to point out bangledesh slums,or somlia and their roving band of warlords.
they have free markets.

the discussion you and i are having is really 'what is governments role".
i agree with so many of your points..truly.
in my opinion the governments role in regards to commerce should be that a fraud police.thats it.
AND to dissolve the corporation and go back to the 1864 model.
if we cant do that at least..the very least...rewrite the corporate charter.
if we cant do that can we at LEAST put back the line "for the public good" (removed in 1967 or 68).
and make these huge entities accountable for their actions and made liable for any and all :death,destruction,disease and suffering.

could we..could we ..please pa..could we?

weeeeell,thats never gonna happen.the reason the west developed was due to governments and corporations getting in bed with each other.
no way america would have the standard of living we have without that ugly beast.

people think america goes to war for ideology?
ha! not a chance.
its fucking business baby!

so..yeah.
my friend there are no easy answers.
and i apologize if you took my previous comment as an attack on you in any way.
never..ever ever.
i respect and admire you immensely.
though i disagree with you on this,that will never take away on how i perceive you.

i am a dissident.
an anarchist.
i have unplugged from the system many moons ago.i refuse to feed the beast.
i did my duty and gave this country a few years and then turned my back and walked away.
which i know may seem in contradiction to what i am proposing in regards to healthcare.
maybe i am naive in some respects,but government does have a role and i would prefer it to be at the betterment of its citizens.
social security has been a great success (not according to some people but look at the stats..it has been fantastic).

you are so right that this is not an issue handled and packaged in one easy sitting.it takes discussion of hard truths.
but for that to happen there has to be respect and i respect you immensely my friend.
it is getting late and i am one pooped lil puppy.
but i am fully enjoying my conversation with you.

let me end with sharing a man who makes an argument so much better than i could.
he is an economist.so he is probably wrong.




carnivorous (Member Profile)

Buck says...

I agree with you.

I do though, have the experience of playing violent vids since the mid ninetys and do not feel it makes me any more violent.

I understand that killing an animal "for fun only" is on the way to psyco ville but I truly don't think this is where shag is coming from. Farmers, hunters I've found are much more realists. life and death happen daily on farms (barn kittens getting stepped on by milk cows That gets me but my then dairy farm GF didn't bat an eye. All part of life.

carnivorous said:

Buck, I am not a vegetarian and as I stated previously in the thread, I am not opposed to hunting for the purpose of food. Perhaps you didn't catch my sarcasm, but that last comment was meant as a joke. I also agree with you completely about factory farming being a miserable life for an animal. My issue is with the addiction to violence. Once a person has become accustomed to not feeling remorse for causing pain and suffering, it causes them to be less empathetic towards human beings. In school, violence is not tolerated and yet at home, parents are teaching children how to kill. Does this not worry you? As shang said, it becomes much like a videogame. Not to mention that when a person takes delight in killing animals, it is a possible warning sign of a psychopathic personality disorder. An addiction to that sort of violent behaviour is a problem in my book and I sure as hell wouldn't be sending my child over to shang's house to play with his kids.

The Kitten Circus

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braindonut says...

What a great dog. I've found that the pets rescued from the outdoors are often the best, most loving pets around. 2 cats of mine were found outdoors and I adopted them. Both of them ended up being the best cats ever... not sure if the same applies to dogs... My other cat, on the other hand, was raised indoors from a kitten. He's an entitled, annoying little shit.

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ant (Member Profile)

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