As I see it, Bitcoin has use in:

-fast, low-cost electronic (not face-to-face) transactions
-transactions frowned upon or outlawed by governments or other sufficiently powerful entities.

It isn't like government currency, although it can be used for many of the same things.

They have "value" the same way all currencies have "value", in that they are a reliable way to determine if somebody else has stored value in the currency market in question.

Calling them "coins" is probably confusing, people don't have bitcoins, people have bitcoin accounts, which you can make as many of as you wish, but new bitcoin accounts are always empty.

To get "coins" the central p2p accounting ledger called the block-chain has to show that some other account transferred coins to your account, that transfer log has to go all the way back to coins generating through mining.

The specifics of how the accounting is verified is some very cool crypto, but suffice it to say it is functionally impossible to forge bitcoin transactions.

That's exactly it.. it is a social experiment. Paper money to me only has enough value of what another thinks its worth, the same way with bitcoins. I personally believe that money is completely evil and only gives power to the ones who have it. Money is not needed for our society anymore. The reason the job growth rate sucks and everyone is unemployed is because we don't need any more jobs. The only reason people gets jobs now is to have money, so they can buy things they want.

But that doesn't have to be that way. Currency can go kaput for all I care. Shelter, food/water, joy/love are the only things that are needed. Everything else is a want. There is enough food and shelter for everyone on the planet, yet we as a species can't seem to figure out why people starve. The reason is money. If everything was free people would go around the world many times over with food to feed those who are hungry and love doing it.

I'm not saying people shouldn't work, but there's enough people who love work to do all the jobs necessary for us to survive, the rest can work on what they love or die happy in a place they love. Money stops this.


sorry I had to rant for some stupid reason.

WOW! *art -fully done. Simply delightful. I would "quality" if I had the currency.

no one is for blatant wealth redistribution, it's a huge strawman conjured up by the right. No has ever advocated that the government should come in and forcibly take everyone's money and redistribute it evenly. It's another scare tactic boogeyman the right likes to conjure.

the problem is, as you've already said, a taxation system that HEAVILY favors the already rich.

There will always be rich people and there will always be poor people. for as long as we have currency, this will always be the case. the question of fairness and how rich people are treated differently than the poor. The rich are allowed to get away with things the poor would never get away with. In certain cases, rich people get many perks for free that a poor person would have to pay for which is the opposite of what should happen. A rich person, by definition, can afford more without being burdened.

If you believe in the founding principles in America, you believe that every person is equal. Rich people are not "better" than poor people" rich and poor alike are endowed with rights that cannot be taken away. Yet the reality is quite different.

The problem is two fold:

1. When you have not just rich people, but uber rich people, It's far easier for them to exert influence over the gov't to get them to make rules that favor them so they can get even more rich. Elections need to have all private money removed from them...period. voting with your money is not equal. 1 person, 1 vote, end of story.

2. As I said before all things being equal, it wouldn't matter so much that there is a huge disparity in wealth if even the poorest of us didn't have to worry about basic necessities such as health care. One major illness and everything you've worked for is gone in an instant. This simply is not fair. Only the rich and uber rich are not seriously hampered by major illnesses

"The best way to devalue a currency is to stop believing in it."

Why is stockpiling power points bad? What do you have against the 1% you socialist?

Actually I've stockpiled powerpoints, but only because I haven't felt the need to use them. As for a form of currency, I could see how it could be "abused" but I have yet to figure out how or why. I guess if a select few found a way to beat the system, something should be done by way of regulatory. Maybe put a time limit between spending power points?

Arm yourself with knowledge, people, or succomb to ignorance found in conspiracies..

Facts: Yes, the Federal Reserve banks are privately owned, but they are controlled by the publically-appointed Board of Governors. The Federal Reserve banks merely execute the monetary policy choices made by the Board. In addition, nearly all the interest the Federal Reserve collects on government bonds is rebated to the Treasury each year, so the government does not pay any net interest to the Fed.

Facts: No foreigners own any part of the Fed. Each Federal Reserve bank is owned exclusively by the participating commercial banks and S&Ls operating within the Federal Reserve bank's district. Individuals and non-bank firms, be they foreign or domestic, are not permitted by law to own any shares of a Federal Reserve bank. Moreover, monetary policy is controlled by the publically-appointed Board of Governors, not by the Federal Reserve banks.

Fact: Independent accounting firms conduct full financial audits of the Federal Reserve banks and the Board of Governors every year. The Fed is also subject to certain types of audits from the Government Accounting Office.

Facts: The Federal Reserve rebates its net earnings to the Treasury every year. Consequently, the interest the Treasury pays to the Fed is returned, so the money borrowed from the Fed has no net interest obligation for the Treasury. The government could print its own currency independent of the Fed, but there would be no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain.

Facts: The Federal Reserve banks have only a small share of the total national debt (about 7%). Therefore, only a small share of the interest on the debt goes to the Fed. Regardless, the Fed rebates that interest to the Treasury every year, so the debt held by the Fed carries no net interest obligation for the government. In addition, it is Congress, not the Federal Reserve, who is responsible for the federal budget and the national debt.

Facts: Kennedy wrote E.O. 11,110 to phase out silver certificate currency, not to issue more of it. Records show Kennedy and the Federal Reserve were almost always in agreement on policy matters. He even signed legislation to give the Fed more authority to issue currency.

Facts: McFadden was incorrect regarding the Fed costing the government money. However, later economic analysis agrees with him that Federal Reserve policy blunders had a substantial role in causing the Depression. However, his implication that this was done deliberately has no basis in fact. Moreover, for a dozen years prior to his rant, McFadden had been the chairman of the House subcommittee that oversaw the Federal Reserve. Why didn't he do anything to reform or abolish the Fed while he had the chance?

Facts: The banking system is indeed able to create money with a mere computer keystroke. However, a bank's ability to create money is tied directly to the amount of reserves customers have deposited there. A bank must pay a competitive interest rate on those deposits to keep them from leaving to other banks. This interest expense alone is a substantial portion of a bank's operating costs and is de facto proof a bank cannot costlessly create money.

Fact: The term 'lawful money' does not refer to gold or silver coin, but to types of money which the government would permit banks to use when tabulating their reserves. These types of money included, but were not limited to, gold and silver coin.

I created an account a long time ago. The first time I got on I wandered around for the whole day. I met a few people and found some cool stuff. NASA had a second life exhibit where you could get a space suit and space ship. I think I burned myself out because I didn't get on it again for a while. It must have been a year or more later when I realized I still had it installed. I updated it and got on again. Once again I spent the whole day exploring. I found some bar type place that at first it seemed cool and fun, they had music and dancing and a lot of chatting. Then I got invited to the basement where they had a virtual bondage thing going on, complete with torture devices and stuff. People would actually pay you in the game currency to smack them around, talk dirty to them and shit. There is pretty much something for everyone in Second Life. I don't think I've played it again since that 2nd time.

>> ^Fairbs:

Something most Republicans can't grasp is our country is better off when the rich are taxed more. 40 years ago, taxes on capital gains were 80%, but now Romney feels he's taxed too much at 15.


And 100 years ago the income tax and capital gains tax was 0... for everyone. And the rate of growth during that period of time has never been equaled since. So here we have a clear point in history where rich people were not being taxed at all and poor immigrants got much wealthier in short order.

The main difference then was that government was much smaller. It didn't divert resources from productive places to unproductive places. It wasn't able to run huge deficits because of the gold standard, so the interest on the national debt never became a burden. Today, the national debt is so large and short term that interest rates can't go up without causing unpayable interest. Without healthy interest rates, there are no savings. Without savings, there is no real investment to upgrade those shovels to bulldozers. And when the government borrows from other countries, 99% of it is spent on welfare and warfare rather than something that increases future returns to make the debt repayable.

That being said, Romney isn't the solution. This guy is just like GWB, will say anything to get into office. The point is, using class envy is a political game that needs to be ignored. Raising taxes on anyone doesn't come close to stopping the coming currency collapse. You guys are doing the economic equivalent of playing with your dicks. And it's going to become painfully obvious in the next 10 years regardless of which one of these clowns you elect.

If you don't believe money exists, then you should have no problem giving me all of your money. I will give you 1000 angels and an invisible unicorn in return. Deal of a lifetime. PM me for my paypal address.

(In all seriousness, you should read up on economics. It sounds like Ron Paul has warped your understanding of economics.) >> ^vaire2ube:

im not watching because as i understand it, the debt only exists if you believe money really exists, and i dont think money as we are told exists really exists... they can put you in debtors prison but cant get blood from a stone... and as i understand it, the fiat currency we accept is totally unbacked by anything other than faith... and thats only good for making "bubbles"
yea i still pay my bills my cabin in the woods isnt built yet, whats your plan!

There's a few lines of this he should strike (namely any and all comparisons to Greece, because what makes Greece's situation uniquely fucked up is it doesn't control its own currency), but otherwise this is a pretty damn accurate picture of what's really going on, *moneywise.

im not watching because as i understand it, the debt only exists if you believe money really exists, and i dont think money as we are told exists really exists... they can put you in debtors prison but cant get blood from a stone... and as i understand it, the fiat currency we accept is totally unbacked by anything other than faith... and thats only good for making "bubbles"

yea i still pay my bills my cabin in the woods isnt built yet, whats your plan!

take a look on index mundi

% of people below poverty line in hungary is 13.9%
for the US, its 15.1%

it's also considered to be one of the most income EQUAL nations in the world
AUDI and MERCEDES both have facilities there
and if you look at how their currency fluctuates... it's actually extremely stable

I'll tell you what the LEFT see's that this guy, the Republicans, and the poster above me don't:

THE FACTS

>> ^bobknight33:

Whats a Country to do when it is out of money? Cut services and keep law an order.
This is what is happening. Lots of pissed off , unemployed people receiving less government benefits, along with higher prices for goods and services due to the government deflating the currency to ease the country's debt.

In America many states and local government are on the edge of bankruptcy. These states and cities will have to do the same as Spain and Greece. Much bloodshed is yet to come.
The Federal government is printing money and borrowing like there is no tomorrow. Tomorrow will surly come and the pied piper will be paid, but only after we collapse.
With little moral fiber left in our leadership, it is easier to spend our self into a depression then face the awful truth and sell the hard sell to the people.


Or it could become a democracy and actually take the peoples votes into account rather than doing whatever it pleases and being ruled by the rich. America is not a poor country it's outstandingly rich, yet the public doesn't get that money...it's not ours but it's our rulers. Our Education and Healthcare could be free, but that doesn't help the rich, so it's not.