We took a gamble on Obama and his plan and it is collapsing under its own weight.

Cheep for the poor and not that affordable for for what you get. Not to mention deductibles are way higher under the current plan.

I don't know the true fix but this current plan is not working.

To be sure Obama wants a singer payer plan and the AFA is suppose to collapse so the next democrat ( Hillary) would finish the deal. But she lost .

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Just checked out this AFA channel (www.afa.net) WOW! This is like Fox news on steroids!

Some random titles:
"The Hard Working American vs. The Government Parasite",
"God is in the Center of Every Great Marriage",
"Why I call it MussoliniCare",

and my personal favorite:
"Let Kirk Cameron know you support his stand"

Definite Streisand Effect for the AFA here, I think.

I doubt most people would give a crap about Ellen being JCP's spokeswoman if this hadn't been turned into a circus. Now that it has, people are going to go out of their way to make a point and there's a lot more people who side with Ellen than AFA.

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>> ^razzyl:

>> ^bcglorf:
I'm afraid to add this also where I find some Hitchen's arguments to be the weakest. The Christian belief that believers will be sent to heaven and those who don't will go to hell is not some threat against non-belief. It is simply a different belief, and atheists shouldn't find it any more threatening than the shadows in their closet.

If only Christianity was so fluffy and benign. Not sure if the The American Christian Lobbyists Association got that memo. Or the AFA. Or Dominionists. Or Moral Majority Inc. Or The Social Contract - National Religious Lobbying group. Or the hundreds of other Christian based groups that have and will pump millions of dollars into lobbying and political campaigns until every citizen in the US and other countries bends to their beliefs.
Or maybe I'm just being a little cynical...


By that standard nobody is benign. People with a common interest lobbying the government to support their common interest. Shocking.

Christians are among those opposing any so-called christian groups wanting to limit religious freedoms or impose religious beliefs on the people though. Freedom of religion has it origins from christians themselves. Eventually minority protestants, catholics and other smaller sects got tired of being killed off by the other side and agreed that separation of church and state amounted to an appropriate and mutually beneficial 'truce'.

Making out as though all christians are X because some people calling themselves christians are X is a fundamental and very basic logical fallacy.

>> ^bcglorf:

I'm afraid to add this also where I find some Hitchen's arguments to be the weakest. The Christian belief that believers will be sent to heaven and those who don't will go to hell is not some threat against non-belief. It is simply a different belief, and atheists shouldn't find it any more threatening than the shadows in their closet.


If only Christianity was so fluffy and benign. Not sure if the The American Christian Lobbyists Association got that memo. Or the AFA. Or Dominionists. Or Moral Majority Inc. Or The Social Contract - National Religious Lobbying group. Or the hundreds of other Christian based groups that have and will pump millions of dollars into lobbying and political campaigns until every citizen in the US and other countries bends to their beliefs.

Or maybe I'm just being a little cynical...

>> ^Nebosuke:

Apparently from a Hitler biography published in 2001.
Hitler's Secret: The Double Life of a Dictator from German historian Lothar Machtan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/07/books.booksnews
Even going from the summarized information of this book, I have no idea where Bryan Fischer got his interpretation.


Urgh I looked up the book and critiques - Historians call it pure speculation, everyone else additionally call it homophobic sensationalism.

Even if Hitler was gay, it would not change anything in a rational person's mind in regard to either homosexuality or Hitler. Gra.

Thanks for pointing out the book.

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