HAPPY HALLOWEEN MY FRIEND!!!!!

Well my friend, I just found the generous and thoughtful things you did.

Thank you very very much for the love.

(Smiling big inside and out) You know I was only kidding, yes?

What a marvelous joke, and such a heritage. Since 1946 for the Turboencabulator. That's funny.

Wonderful response by the way. I think I definitely, no, I'm certain that I definitely like you.

Namsste.
In reply to this comment by chtierna:
That's okay I have enough love for the both of us :*

In reply to this comment by chicchorea:
I hate you.

Happy anniversary! Today marks year number 2 since you first became a Sifter and the community is better for having you. Thanks for your contributions!

The sad part is that Nolan won't make any more movies like that. Some ideas are perfect for small budgets, but now that he's so commercially successful he's probably gonna keep making big Hollywood blockbusters with mandatory special effects, Hans Zimmer soundtrack etc...

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
Memento, to me, is just on a completely other level than Inception. Great movie. Memento, that is.

Sarcasm?
...because I love videos that expose me to something I didn't know about, especially creatures of our world...what kind of videos do you honestly think we need more of here on the sift? I'll try to find some for you.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
Oh, and nice video. We sorely lack useless animal videos here on the sift. Good job.

I'll just respond to your statements in bold in the quoted text.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
Okay, at least we agree on the fact that she shouldn't receive death threats for the mistakes she made.
In your first comment I really felt you meant she deserved everything that was coming her way, no matter how nasty.

Also, I did go to Encyclopedia Dramatica and read the article. I'm not sure what the source is for the nudity, it said she almost showed her boobs or something and that she posted naked pics of herself. Regarding the sources in this story I don't regard either side as very believable. It is for example unclear if she really did receive death threats according to ED.

You may not find it believable, but Encyclopedia Dramatica is pretty much the Wikipedia of 4chan. Have I seen these pictures posted on /b/? Yes. Did I then report those posts for child pornography to get taken down? Yes. This is just something they do. They find pictures/humiliating information and then post it, repost it, and repost it again.

Something I cannot agree with is some kind of justification that as long as she clicked away a warning she was free game for any tactics from anyone that didn't like her. Imagine in real life if I put up a sign that said "warning: passing this door gets your raped" and then someone crossed the door anyway and I raped them. Would I then when the police showed up be able to say: "Hey, she read the sign, she voided her rights to object to being raped the minute she passed my door". And yes, she made provocative statements etc, but to use the disclaimer as a shield for whatever consequences it brings on the girl... it just doesn't hold up.

Your argument here is in no way comparable. Lots of mature sites on the internet use disclaimers to dissuade minors from entering their sites. This ranges from porn sites to sites which just feature mature(violence/language/etc) content. It amounts to the same as signing a legal contract, and has held up in court countless times. You can give it any ridiculous example, but the disclaimer is there for these exact reasons, to attempt to deter minors, and it exonerates the owner of the site from any legal recourse that he would suffer when a minor attempts to access the site

Contacting the child services would be the right thing to do, and as I see it was done, her parents do not seem to be protecting their daughter well enough and certainly don't seem very bright, but then going on and trying to make an 11-year old cry, that's just weak somehow.

Everyone is different, and when under the guise of anonymity, it allows them to be someone who they are not. Now maybe you can't imagine doing something "questionable," but /b/ is a testament to the fact that under that anonymous guise, people can turn into something terrible.

There is of course the argument that the lulz make everything permisable. So in a way, there is a mentality where the more harm comes to the victim, the more lulz are to be made. Suggesting that she commit suicide was apparently 2nd on some "further trolling" list, and both you and I know it would certainly be considered a huge success for the trolls if they managed to convince the girl to take her life. There would be plenty of lulz indeed. I find this utterly beyond contempt.

I'd have to point out again that this is something that you would personally do in your own opinion. I can assure you it is not shared by everyone

To me it seems most people on 4chan (I guess /b/ would be the main culprit here) don't do stuff because they want to correct the behaviour of someone, but simply because they are bored and want something fun to occupy their time with. Forming a mob and making someone cry or be humiliated passes time. 4chan doesn't care about this girl or any other girl. They have used her for amusement, and will continue until she dies or hides or they find something else more interesting. In the end their motto and their actions do not amount to something I can respect or admire the way I feel some do.

I would personally hypothesis that the admiration comes from minors, because they want their 15 minutes of internet fame being able to say "I was a part of that." Of course I could be wrong and it could really be anyone(which would be even more disturbing, but ultimately not surprising).

In the end as you point out, they cannot be stopped. But I feel sorry for the girl and I don't think she or anyone else in her situation deserves to go through what she did however stupid she is. Posting that she deserves everything 4chan can muster against her, as you seemed to be doing in your original post, doesn't sit very well with me, but from your response at least you seem to draw the limit far sooner than others.

For that I'd have to say I used a poor choice of words to get my point across. I was merely trying to point out that her actions(which were undoubtedly incredibly dumb) awoke an internet beast that would not stop until it succeeded in "ruining" her life.

Pardon the wall of text.

In closing I'd like to add that I believe /b/ comes with good and bad sides. It is the ultimate definition of freedom of speech on the internet, a forum where anyone can post anything anonymously(that's the whole point, to REMAIN anonymous). It is one of the last bastions of the internet where intelligent as well as retarded discussions can occur without censorship(unless illegal ie. child porn).

Sorry to hear about the divorce. That's rough enough when you do it in the same city, let alone a different country.

And I know what you mean about the fortress. I'm realizing now, more than any other time in my life, how important friends are.

What bugs me about the Jesse thing is...that I can't even believe the point is being argued.

Would the "she deserved it" people have sex with her if she offered it? Would they have sex with any eleven-year-old if they offered it? If no, why? Because it's illegal? Okay, if it were legal, would you have sex with an eleven-year-old?

See where I'm going here? If she's not old enough to be held responsible for making the decision to have sex, how is it that she's old enough to suffer the consequences of getting on the internet and espousing some bravado? "A brain slushie?" God, there are film school graduates who couldn't have dreamed that one up. Or maybe they did and, just like a stupid kid, she merely repeated what she heard.

But no, instead of just turning her off and ignoring her, let's get her personal info and make her and her family's life a living hell.

It's her own fault. She deserved it.

Most of the perpetrators of the mobbing were white, middle-class, suburban males, and it disturbs me deeply to see how many of them insist that she deserved it.

Sorry for the rant.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
Shit man, I'm sorry about what happend to you, I don't know what you went through exactly, but I think I can relate in at least one way, namely:

When I was younger I thought I was this fortress, invincible against other peoples opinions etc. Then I got married in another country and now divorced and I realized that I depend on others just as much as anyone else and that I'm fragile in ways that I think everyone is but don't know they are. It was a scary realization and I started doubting myself in ways I'd never done before.

I think everyone needs to be able to cut stuff off at a certain level and just have somewhere they can lick their wounds and build themselves up, but when you're in a situation with no escape then the damage starts to really fuck you up, like it did me here, and probably you too.

I also think many people never ever had to face what it is to be exposed and feel like shit, or maybe they did and it's easier to deny it and join the mob to go after someone else and feel some kind of strength from that.

About going after the 4chan people that hurt others. Honestly, I think it would just feed the trolls. It would be something that other 4chan'ers would laugh at or that would take their boredom away. I dont think it would really make one iota of difference. But I see where you're coming from.

Ok well I'll tell you this, I was on the site the week that this all blew out of proportion, I was following it from nearly the beginning when almost every single thread on the anonymous imageboard had something to do with this girl. For the details that I did miss, they are described in http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Jessi_Slaughter, giving the ENTIRE backstory, development of the imageboard's reaction, and the back-and-forth between the girl/her parents and this imageboard as well as police involvement etc. It's been documented down to the specific dates of what happened when.

Another point I have to make is that the imageboard she was posting on is an 18 and over ONLY board. If you want access to this board you have to agree to the disclaimer written as follows:

"By entering this section of the website, in exchange for use of this website, you the user hereby agree to the following:
1. The content of this website is for mature viewers only and may not be suitable for minors. If you are a minor or it is illegal for you to view nudity or mature images and language, do not proceed.
2. This site is presented to you AS IS, with no warranty, express or implied. By clicking "I Agree" and then viewing our site, you agree not to hold the webmaster and staff of this site (4chan.org) liable for any damages from your use of these boards.
3. As a condition of using this site, you must fully understand, and comply with the rules of 4chan.org, which may be located by following the "Rules" link on the home page.

Now do I personally feel that she deserved death threats? No, but apparently someone else on the internet does. Can I stop them? Absolutely not. That is the danger of revealing yourself on an anonymous imageboard. For some further information, there has never, EVER been an actual murder occur as a direct effect of this imageboard's actions(unlike Craigslist, but people don't seem to have a problem with using that do they?)

Do I think she should be humiliated? She did some pretty stupid things, and now she's reaping the consequences of her actions. Actions that INCLUDED posting pictures of herself NAKED (this girl is 11, remember that). Not only did "Anonymous" humiliate and harass her, they called child services on the parents because the parents have no idea what the hell this girl is doing on the internet, exposing herself, etc. These pictures will haunt her for the REST of her life, and I think she finally realized that in the end, when it was already too late. They will never go away, especially now that she's made national news.

I'm not saying I didn't make mistakes when I was 11, but I never made mistakes of this kind of magnitude. You have to understand that the power of anonymity allows a person to go beyond their moral standings and become the "asshole" that was described in the thread discussion. They don't forget, they don't forgive. It's seriously in their motto:
We are Anonymous.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us.
Some users take this more to heart than others, and these are the consequences you see before you.

To answer your final questions I'll tell you that what she did wrong was feed the internet trolls. She fed them, then she provoked them, and she was dumb enough to post pictures of herself nude while she was at it.

Does she deserve everything that she is getting? It's not something I would do personally, but I know that if I would do anything similar to what she's done, I would suffer the same consequences, if not worse. That is the mistake she made, the mistake of unwittingly putting her information out to the internet, a public forum, a place where whatever you put lasts forever. She was too young to know the difference, and now it's too late to stop it.

The founder of the website has the 18+ disclaimer there for a reason, because people younger than that don't realize what kind of implications their actions might have. She's the one that didn't listen to it and went ahead and became involved, and then? Well... then... age doesn't really matter does it? Everything is for the lulz, and I can assure you, Anonymous is laughing.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I think the standard is "innocent until proven guilty", so I'm more curious how you justify that she deserved to have death threats aimed against her and to be humiliated by thousands of people online. She said some stupid stuff, she maybe even did some stupid stuff, and you call for blood.

I'm sorry but you just saying that the fact that she is 11 doesn't factor into it doesn't quite cut it for me. Maybe you never made a mistake when you were 11, shit maybe you thought things through as clearly as any other adult, I know I didn't, and I also know I wouldn't want to have my mistakes blown up for everyone to see and judge. People make mistakes, and wiser people forgive them. I think there are better ways to learn how you're supposed to behave than getting harassed.

In the end I want to ask you a question. How far would you like to take it? How much punishment do you think that she deserves? Do you think it would be okay if she was driven to suicide? Or if she got hospitalized for cracking under the pressure. Would that satisfy you?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I think it's called "mobbing" what happened to her. An online mobbing is one thing, but when they get a home address and a phone number, that takes it to a whole new level. It might look funny from the outside, but when complete strangers know more about you than a complete stranger should, it rattles your cage, believe me.

Also there's a residual paranoia that fucks with your mind after the mobbing stops. Sometimes people will say very innocent things, but there is a coincidence to it that sort of, behaviorally, puts the victim back in the same place they were before.

I'm all for free speech, privacy, etc., but if I could track down some of those 4Chan fuckers, I would do it. If the Pentagon could find them, I'd support that. I'd support prosecution to the full extent.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I'm a bit taken back by the lack of sympathy. I do think she made stupid choices and that she said stupid things, who hasn't. I haven't been harassed by a whole community of people online, but it must be just beyond horrible, especially if it connects back to your real life and you can't shake it off.

I have a real problem with communities like 4chan etc when they start going after someone, because at the end of the day if they drive someone beyond what they should, it's just a success story, it's just something to be proud of, it's just such a remote incident that they have no reason to connect with the people they are causing to suffer.

In reply to this comment by rougy:
I saw that comment of yours and really appreciated it.

Sadly, I think that blaming anybody but the perpetrators of the harassment is still sort of missing the point.

This thing really bothered me. I was stalked back in the nineties (in my 30's at the time), and I experienced something like Jesse experienced, and I don't think anybody here really understands how terrifying that is.

If it was rough on a thirty year old man, I can't imagine the effect it would have on an eleven year old girl.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I'm with you on this one, she is 11 and didn't deserve this treatment.

I saw that comment of yours and really appreciated it.

Sadly, I think that blaming anybody but the perpetrators of the harassment is still sort of missing the point.

This thing really bothered me. I was stalked back in the nineties (in my 30's at the time), and I experienced something like Jesse experienced, and I don't think anybody here really understands how terrifying that is.

If it was rough on a thirty year old man, I can't imagine the effect it would have on an eleven year old girl.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I'm with you on this one, she is 11 and didn't deserve this treatment.

I'd like to hear your reasoning on why you think she "doesn't deserve" the treatment she got? (But please something other than "she's 11") You should check out the link I posted in the video page, it might clear up some issues or questions you have.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I'm with you on this one, she is 11 and didn't deserve this treatment.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I'm not sure I understand the hate towards an 11 year old in the comments above. Internet can be the nastiest place, and yes the parents should have warned her and done a better job of keeping track of her, but people will make mistakes, and when you're 11 you're gonna make them all the time.

This had to have been something she couldn't have thought fully through, couldn't have anticipated and I cant see how she deserves any of it.

totally agree.
the father needs a good beating though.....

Thanks. Been away from the internet culture for a long time. Didn't know if I missed a meme or something.

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
Well, someone has edited the ad, taking out a portion where I guess the Israeli and the Palestinians are playing a jolly game of "soccer over the wall" and replaced it with the Israeli ordering an air-strike, presumably on the opposing side, then cheering and celebrating their victory, all whilst keeping the original soundtrack of the ad.

In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:
What am I missing?

yep! that's the one!

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
Do you mean this one?
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/199/House-on-Loon-Lake

In reply to this comment by residue:
There's also a really good one about an abandoned house in ...Maine? I'll look for it

In reply to this comment by chtierna:
I'm listening to it now and it's great. The woman who would steal sweaters:

Reporter: "So you would turn into a thief pretty quick?"
Woman: "Immediately!"

Hahaha, honest

In reply to this comment by residue:
Hey in response to your "this american life" post, check out superpowers

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/178/Superpowers