So, you admit your group is at least shirking responsibility as much as you feel OWS and BLM are? That's quite a lot.

Eureka, California. I watched them be violent and attack anyone disagreeing. I'm 100% positive it wasn't the only place that happened.

So, you think you can completely separate republicans and their actions from "conservatives" who identify as republican, are embraced fully by republicans and courted by them, and vote them into power, but all democrats are incontrovertibly violent SJWs, even though dems don't accept them and never court them. As I said, shirking responsibility for your actions....it's the conservative way.


First, I've addressed the difference, republicans embrace the insane teabaggers, democrats rail against SJWs. Second, look at numbers. A few thousand ignorant students is far less than hundreds of thousands of outraged ignorant ball lickers.

The average, typical liberal is protesting an idiot in power selling us down the river to the highest bidder and eroding hard won civil rights. They are not typically students (no matter how much you wish they were because many of the student protests are easy to degrade and dismiss, but most protests/rallies aren't).

Professional paid protesters...another disproven bit of right wing propaganda. You watch WAY too much Alex Jones....why not bring up the pedophile ring Clinton heads, or the murders she personally committed, or the fish people she keeps in a hidden tank in her office, or the violence they planned for the inauguration?
Sad. Biggly sad.

*dead -- "'UK Student Protesters Attac...' The YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement."

Ok, I'll start with a few things that most people would probably agree with, but the police force currently would fight like hell to avoid. How about we decide to actually punish cops who break existing rules and laws. Use testing to weed out unbalanced power hungry or corrupt types from becoming cops. QUIT hiring COMBAT veterans to become PEACE officers. I'm sure there are many things that could be done to fix the problem with the police, its just that it's not being done because the police think the only problem is that we, the lowly people, dont always follow ALL commands,and sometimes we need to be put in our place. >> ^shveddy:
False dichotomy, among other things. There are innumerable intermediate steps between "allowing them to do whatever they want to you" and "shooting the motherfuckers." I'll admit that there is a point where armed resistance is warranted, but if you think that we have arrived anywhere near that point with enough frequency to warrant armed resistance, then you are crazy.
Yes, there are plenty of instances of people's rights being violated - but in 99.99% of those occasions, I think the problem can best be solved through other means.
Do I think that the students who got peppersprayed at UC Davis had their rights violated?
Yes, I do. But this guy seems to suggest that the proper response is for the students to pull guns and start a shoot-out. Let's imagine what that would look like for a second:
One of the students peers through the caustic mist with righteous fury and a wet t-shirt over his mouth. He can feel the comforting weight of his Barretta, held close to his heart in a chest holster, and he knows that this is the moment to act. He stands up tall despite the onslaught of bright orange asphyxiation, reaches for his piece and takes aim. Somewhat startled, the officer is suddenly defenseless with his canister and it is not long before he crumples to the ground in an ever expanding pool of blood. He basks in a brief moment of clarity before chaos reigns. His fellow students are quick to bear arms themselves, but the training, body armor and poise of the officers allows them a significant head start and the students suffer heavy casualties in this initial volley.
Not to be deterred by the deaths of their friends, the occupy movement takes up refuge in the life sciences building which, designed in the late sixties with a brutalist aesthetic, is mostly concrete and as such is a perfect fortress from which to outlast the ensuing siege and inspire innumerable citizens on the outside world to take up arms as well. Guerrilla warfare is the only tactic effective in such asymmetrical circumstances, and after a few weeks of violence the powers that be succumb to international pressure and agree to negotiate with the 99%...
...or we could launch an official investigation, fire the guy as a scapegoat after an admittedly long, expensive and cumbersome process, and let the public outrage that ensued lead to a more cautious approach to future student protests. Bloggers and editorialists collectively write millions of words on the subject, increasing awareness and generally shaming the agency that allowed it to happen.
Not perfect, but a whole hell of a lot more civilized.
Any time you use guns against a government entity in he US, you will eventually be caught and put in jail. Period. The only way to avoid this is to be a small part of a large popular movement that eventually overthrows the US government, and I don't see that ever happening with citizen gun-owners unless it involves guerrilla tactics. Imagine gunfights erupting at your local municipal buildings. Imagine pipe bombs at your local police station. People need to realize that this is what they are advocating when they argue for second amendment rights as a fourth check and balance.
If you disagree with that statement, feel free to fill in a reasonable sequence of events to span the gap between "guy whose fourth amendment rights are violated guns down cop" and "said guy is vindicated, and massive changes are made to our law enforcement policies." I suspect that we are far more likely to see a greater militarization of the police in response.
I humbly propose that we join the civilized world and come up with more creative ways to correct our problems.

False dichotomy, among other things. There are innumerable intermediate steps between "allowing them to do whatever they want to you" and "shooting the motherfuckers." I'll admit that there is a point where armed resistance is warranted, but if you think that we have arrived anywhere near that point with enough frequency to warrant armed resistance, then you are crazy.

Yes, there are plenty of instances of people's rights being violated - but in 99.99% of those occasions, I think the problem can best be solved through other means.

Do I think that the students who got peppersprayed at UC Davis had their rights violated?

Yes, I do. But this guy seems to suggest that the proper response is for the students to pull guns and start a shoot-out. Let's imagine what that would look like for a second:

One of the students peers through the caustic mist with righteous fury and a wet t-shirt over his mouth. He can feel the comforting weight of his Barretta, held close to his heart in a chest holster, and he knows that this is the moment to act. He stands up tall despite the onslaught of bright orange asphyxiation, reaches for his piece and takes aim. Somewhat startled, the officer is suddenly defenseless with his canister and it is not long before he crumples to the ground in an ever expanding pool of blood. He basks in a brief moment of clarity before chaos reigns. His fellow students are quick to bear arms themselves, but the training, body armor and poise of the officers allows them a significant head start and the students suffer heavy casualties in this initial volley.

Not to be deterred by the deaths of their friends, the occupy movement takes up refuge in the life sciences building which, designed in the late sixties with a brutalist aesthetic, is mostly concrete and as such is a perfect fortress from which to outlast the ensuing siege and inspire innumerable citizens on the outside world to take up arms as well. Guerrilla warfare is the only tactic effective in such asymmetrical circumstances, and after a few weeks of violence the powers that be succumb to international pressure and agree to negotiate with the 99%...

...or we could launch an official investigation, fire the guy as a scapegoat after an admittedly long, expensive and cumbersome process, and let the public outrage that ensued lead to a more cautious approach to future student protests. Bloggers and editorialists collectively write millions of words on the subject, increasing awareness and generally shaming the agency that allowed it to happen.

Not perfect, but a whole hell of a lot more civilized.

Any time you use guns against a government entity in he US, you will eventually be caught and put in jail. Period. The only way to avoid this is to be a small part of a large popular movement that eventually overthrows the US government, and I don't see that ever happening with citizen gun-owners unless it involves guerrilla tactics. Imagine gunfights erupting at your local municipal buildings. Imagine pipe bombs at your local police station. People need to realize that this is what they are advocating when they argue for second amendment rights as a fourth check and balance.

If you disagree with that statement, feel free to fill in a reasonable sequence of events to span the gap between "guy whose fourth amendment rights are violated guns down cop" and "said guy is vindicated, and massive changes are made to our law enforcement policies." I suspect that we are far more likely to see a greater militarization of the police in response.

I humbly propose that we join the civilized world and come up with more creative ways to correct our problems.

Hurray! Canada gets rid of the penny!

- We also got rid of 19,200 jobs! (1)
- Increased the retirement age to 67 years old for eligibility to receive pensioners. (2)
- Slashed funding to the elections Canada (on the eve of investigations into election fraud!) /Source.
- Scaled back of youth programs including the elimination of the Katimavik work exchange program.
- The news organization most capable of reporting on government actions and fraud is severely cut. (3)

And, it spite of all the cuts due to overspending, we're still committed to purchasing several F-35 JSF "White Elephants" from war profiteers, Lockheed Martin. Link.
Canadians taxpayers are still paying 31 Billion to serve the INTEREST on outstanding debt to private banks. (4)
Universities continue to be so underfunded that 200,000 students protested in the streets of Montreal last month. (5)


(1) This would be equivalent of Obama suddenly eliminating about 180,000 public servant jobs in the United States if scaled for population.
(2) Except for politicians, who can still begin to receive their pension as early as 55 until after the next election. info!
(3) The CBC takes budget nosedive on the chin. Link.
(4) And who benefits from that interest payment? Surely not the same people who contribute to political campaigns!! Harper unwilling to actually cut spending.
(5) http://videosift.com/video/Montreal-Students-Protest-Timelapse-March-22-2012

But, hey, at least we got rid of the penny!!
Focus on the shiny coin!

It's never a all of nothing...

Do I agree that, in the best or worlds, education should be free. Absolutely.

Do I think that, in the financial situation this province is in, it's realistic to protest against a tuition hike that still will make it (one of) the lowest tuition in North America? Absolutely not.

We have a bunch of problems to solve - including waste government spending etc...and I'd love nothing better than to have a free education system...but as it is, we have the highest income tax rate in Canada (probably North America), we have debt issue, health system issues, etc. It just is not realistic at this point.

Have a little protest to make your point, and move on. Get some concession to have a bit better bursaries to help those students that need it, sure. Have a 200k protest where you jam up everybody during rush hour, close bridges, etc...I'm sorry, that justs feels like first world problems to me.

Do I have any evidence or polling about who agrees with the protesters...no. That's just based on what you hear on the street/news - which isn't scientific, of course...but I'd bet that there's a greater likelihood that it's the correct situation than not.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Tokoki:
Students protesting about tuition hikes...when they have the cheapest tuition in all of North America!
Typically, when a group is protesting about something, you find a decent part of the general population that agrees with them. In this particular case...pretty much everyone here agrees that they're out in left field on this - including most of the other students who were actually trying to go to school.

Ummm why would you think this? Just because it's cheaper there than it is in America doesn't make it right. Higher education like community colleges should be free. Mexico has free state schools that are comparable to American ones across the border...yet they're free in a poor country and in a rich country they'r not. Does that seem right?
Also why not present some evidence or polling about who does and doesn't agree with these protesters.

>> ^Tokoki:

Students protesting about tuition hikes...when they have the cheapest tuition in all of North America!
Typically, when a group is protesting about something, you find a decent part of the general population that agrees with them. In this particular case...pretty much everyone here agrees that they're out in left field on this - including most of the other students who were actually trying to go to school.


Ummm why would you think this? Just because it's cheaper there than it is in America doesn't make it right. Higher education like community colleges should be free. Mexico has free state schools that are comparable to American ones across the border...yet they're free in a poor country and in a rich country they'r not. Does that seem right?

Also why not present some evidence or polling about who does and doesn't agree with these protesters.

Apparently this was around 200,000 people protesting tuition hikes.
Not sure if they all made it to this rally, but that is A LOT of unhappy people.

http://montreal.mediacoop.ca/blog/tim-mcsorley/10286

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/03/22/montreal-student-protests.html

Students protesting about tuition hikes...when they have the cheapest tuition in all of North America!

Typically, when a group is protesting about something, you find a decent part of the general population that agrees with them. In this particular case...pretty much everyone here agrees that they're out in left field on this - including most of the other students who were actually trying to go to school.

"It is a crime... they were posing a, you know, a sit-in - a student protest. And you can do that, tha- that's very American. But it may also happen to break the law." -Megyn Kelly

FOX News: Where being American is okay as long as it doesn't break the law.

If we take her at her word.
Okay, she didn't know that in this post-Seattle, post-911, post-Oakland, Drug War obsessed America that the cops would use inappropriate violence against non-violent student protesters.

Well, then someone that stupid shouldn't be a chancellor of a university.

We spent 15 million trying to win votes for the 2018 world cup, perfect example of money wasted. Our current government is making all the wrong budget cuts. Total respect for the students protesting despite the cold weather, yes there was some violence but in most towns and cities the demonstrations were peaceful - it's just London that attracts most of the troublemakers since they know that's where the media cameras will be.

Reality is that this is probably the first big protest of quite a few over the next few years concerning a number of issues due to arise in the UK. Our governments are being told what to do by well-financed corporations who do not have the considerations of society as a whole foremost in their thoughts. Man I hate saying that, 10 years ago I remember hearing that same stuff from conspiracy theorists and thinking it was absurd. Now it's so blatantly obvious that corporations and their wallets dictate a lot of what happens within the governments of many countries.

What has corporate lobbying got to do with student tuition fees? The big companies that soak up billions of pounds of tax-payers' money on delayed and incompetent projects have kept many of their lucrative deals, often signed by civil servants who don't understand what they're signing up for. All those projects and deals need to be reevaluated, and the work agreed upon by skilled individuals in the public sector who understand what is being agreed with the supplier. We've got a great IT skill base in the UK and more coming out of our universities (providing tuition fees don't prevent a lot of skilled individuals attending in the near future), why are we sending billions of pounds out of the country to companies that make it a matter of expectation that there will be failures and missed deadlines? Sure most of the equipment and off-the-shelf software solutions will come from the USA and that's fine, it's the skilled labour we need to source locally.

I could go on forever but I think I've spewed enough incoherent crud for one post

Thank you sir!

In reply to this comment by radx:
The shape of things to come? Let's hope not. *promote

By the way, it was carried by 323 votes to 302.

student protesters are outrageously annoying.

With all this student protest i'm worried that everyone is going to miss the real issue one that I think most of these students are oblivouse to and that is that the super wealthy are stealing from the pore as they always have and that the rich pore divide and terrible economic policy in general are to blame.

As a society we need to fundimentaly change how money is handeld and work out ways to redistubute wealth thats fair and still rewards those that benefit society or are successful at busisiness.

Education should always be near free if not free, Im fairly confident if you took that money from nucular armanments or some part of the military to offset the cost within the current system you would end up with a safer country and allso be in a better echanomical posistion.

This whole thing allso ignores that fact that for vast majorty of university subjects you can effectively educate yourself up to degree standard for free (http://www.khanacademy.org/ ) so thats another issue universities need to fundamentally change and again our culture needs to change , we need facilities that enable sum one who has educated themselves to be able to take a low cost tests/evaluation that allows them to gain an internationally recognized certificat enabling them to become employed or go into varouse fealds of research / obtain funding.

also I seem to remember the hundreds of thousands of people protesting the Iraq war and that achived absaluty nothing. so unless these students are prepared to start bing properly violent (preferably towards large cooperate property) or actually disrupting the country in some way for a prolonged time , nothing good is going to come from it.

and finally the majority of people in uk didn't vote conservative they wanted to vote something more progressive , lib dem / other parties that were not conservative. and what did that achieve it allowed conservatives to gain power the exact opasite of what the majority of people in the uk wanted lol our democratic system is fundimentaly broken.