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The Indianapolis Speech - Jaws (1975)

The Indianapolis Speech - Jaws (1975)

The Battle Over Confederate Monuments

MilkmanDan says...

@newtboy --

Yarr. I had a pretty long response typed up, and then accidentally clicked on a link and lost it.

So here's a short version:

I agree with you on pretty much everything, but "all statues and other monuments celebrating the insurrection should go" has some caveats for me.

Civic places like government buildings, city parks, etc.? Yeah, they should all go (including the State flags that incorporate the stars and bars). But museums (which you noted you are OK with), battlefields, and even a landmark or two like Stone Mountain I feel can be re-purposed so they aren't necessarily "celebrating the insurrection" so much as "reminding us of the evil that can exist in the hearts of men -- even men that some people respect".

Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly said "It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sumbitch or another." Easier to remember that for Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee, and Stonewall Jackson, given that their roles in the Confederacy are pretty defining aspects of their legacies. But it remains true for some people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and many other founding fathers that were also slave owners, even though we often conveniently forget that aspect of their history.


--EDIT--
Oh, by the way, I love that Malcolm Reynolds quote from Firefly, and there's a rather similar one made by the Hound in the (leaked) S07E06 episode of Game of Thrones:
"Every lord I've ever known has been a cunt. Don't see why the Lord of Light should be any different."

Not as relevant as the other one, but I liked it.

The Battle Over Confederate Monuments

newtboy says...

Sorry, but you missed the point imo. Confederates were NOT real Americans, they were real traitors to America who renounced their citizenship and fought to destroy the Union....largely to protect their rights to own people.

I'm not for whitewashing history, but I do think all statues and other monuments celebrating the insurrection should go...because I'm a patriot and would never celebrate our enemies.
Funny enough, Robert E Lee agreed there should be no monuments, he knew they breed hatred on both sides.

As an American, it is pretty easy to say they were wrong, and I'm from Houston and I'm actually related to Lee through two separate lines. That changes nothing. Treason is wrong, period.

MilkmanDan said:

I'm part way there. In government buildings, city parks, etc., sure -- take 'em down. State flags incorporating the confederate flag? Yeah. Probably time to change.

Civil war battlefields / memorials? Leave 'em up. Stone Mountain? Leave it. Placards noting that these people fought for the wrong side, for wrong reasons (90% of which boils down to slavery) can / should be included. Make it clear that the efforts of these people to try to keep slavery around were evil and wrong.

I've seen it noted that there are no monuments to Hitler in Germany. True, but reminders of the terrible Nazi legacy remain, in Germany and elsewhere. Concentration camps remain, still standing as a reminder of the human capacity for evil. Nazi flags, logos, and equipment remain in museums.

In China, images and monuments to Mao are everywhere. In spite of the fact that even the Communist Party there admits that his policies and actions were terrible -- the devastating Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, etc. Some Chinese can remember and celebrate the good that Mao did (perhaps a small list) while simultaneously acknowledging his extremely tarnished legacy.


I think that being very quick to say that ALL people on the Confederate side of the Civil War were evil and wrong while their counterparts in the Union were clearly the "real Americans" is entirely too easy. The CSA was founded almost entirely in support of a very evil primary goal -- to keep slavery around. But the people in it, even the people running it, were different from the people on the other side mainly due to accidents of birth location. They fought for what they thought was necessary / right. They were wrong. But, they were real Americans -- and acknowledging that they could have been wrong in that way reminds us that the potential to end up on the wrong side of history also exists for us.

Americans Want Statues Left Alone

newtboy says...

6/10 polled said they believe they should remain, a tiny bit different from wanting them standing, but surprising none the less.
So was this quote from Robert E Lee denouncing civil war monuments....

“I think it wiser,” the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, “…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments/

bobknight33 said:

PBS News Hour/NPR/Marist Poll after the Charlottesville incident.

Most Americans still want the statues standing.

Why Is Salt So Bad for You, Anyway?

transmorpher says...

Watch out, I'm a crazy vegan that's trying to trick you into eating healthier, reducing your carbon footprint and saving billions of lives each year(human and animal). Wouldn't that just be terrible if you got suckered into my plan!

I've quoted from:
Dr. Kim A Williams
Dr. Cadwell Esselstyn
Dr. Michael Greger
Dr. William C. Roberts
Dr. Neal Barnard
T. Colin Campbell Phd
Dr. Michael Klaper
Dr. Joel Fuhrman
Dr. Dean Ornish

All of which are themselves getting data from non-vegan originated scientific research.....

newtboy said:

Um...you're still totally wrong because you didn't list any amounts. One gram of cheese, one pound, one wheel? What? One cube of cheese, no where near 25% RDA, a large bowl of velveta, probably more than 50%.
Just listing numbers is meaningless if you don't include the meaningful ones.

Yes, cheese has salt, quite a bit, and too much is certainly bad for health(not as bad as none, but that's an impossibility today). That doesn't actually confirm your claims, though.

You have one hyper vegan guy you quote constantly, and he's a quack that puts out stats like the one you originally posted...that cheese if 50% salt. Of course I'll assume you're quoting his totally wrong facts again without any evidence to the contrary.
That said, I don't need anything to dismiss this particular claim besides a 2 minute google search.

How dead is the Great Barrier Reef?

transmorpher says...

Skip the beef, and save the reef :-)
Choose the bean pattie instead.

"Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions.


Goodland, R Anhang, J. “Livestock and Climate Change: What if the key actors in climate change were pigs, chickens and cows?”

Goodland, Robert & Anhang, Jeff. "Livestock and Climate Change: What if the key actors in climate change are...cows, pigs and chickens?". WorldWatch. November/December 2009

Hickman, Martin. "Study claims meat creates half of all greenhouse gases". Independent. November 2009

Hyner, Christopher. "A Leading Cause of Everything: One Industry That Is Destroying Our Planet and Our Ability to Thrive on It". Georgetown Environmental Law Review. October 23, 2015. (New)"

Must Love Bugs

ant says...

I was going to major and work in entomology when I was younger since I love living bugs like ants. I even hung out with a few local entomologists like Robert H. Crandoll (RIP since he passed away in 2006). He had a cool insect collection (dead and alive) in his house.

However, computer science took over since I love computers especially their digital bugs. I don't like the chemical odor/smell, traveling, low pay, etc. However, I am still fascinated with nature today as an old fart.

ForgedReality (Member Profile)

siftbot says...

Congratulations! Your comment on Did Robert Johnson really sell his soul to the Devil? has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

How The Arecibo Telescope Could Help Save The World

Best Closing Movie Credits Ever - Malagueña Salerosa

ChaosEngine says...

*quality!!

The band doing this cover is called Chingon (Mexcian slang meaning "badass") and the guitarist is Robert Rodriguez.

Also, Sonny Chiba FTW... best scene in the whole movie.

There was a rumour that Tarantino was going to make a part 3 where Nikki (Viveca Fox's daughter) grows up and comes looking for revenge on the Bride. Wonder if we'll ever see that.

7 Myths about Serviced Offices

IT - Official Teaser Trailer

ant (Member Profile)

You Want To Look Professional But Your Kids Have Other Plans



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