This shows what the Isreali peace effort is in reality. A Lie.

Just another one of those times you say exactly what I think better than I ever could have said it.

In reply to this comment by NetRunner:
^ I'm just trying to educate people! I don't know why anyone would think I was trying to "target" anyone!

Just because I show an endless loop of people named "Ron" beating, raping, and murdering people doesn't mean that I think all people named Ron need to be stopped by any means necessary.

No! I'm just a simple filmmaker trying to get the truth out to people about Rons. I know it will take a lot of processing and reevaluating, but sometimes that's just how education works.

I would give you some information about peaceful efforts to try to bring them to justice, but I'm on a budget, so instead I'll give you a link to some sites that collect Ron horror stories for all to see.

Maybe the next film can blow the lid on Mexicans. Or Muslims.

Eh, I'm beating a dead horse, I think you get my point.

Let's not kid ourselves about this being educational. Shocking, and deeply troubling, but it's designed to generate heat, not light.

It'd be good to try to channel the heat into something positive, rather than let it just fester.

^ I'm just trying to educate people! I don't know why anyone would think I was trying to "target" anyone!

Just because I show an endless loop of people named "Ron" beating, raping, and murdering people doesn't mean that I think all people named Ron need to be stopped by any means necessary.

No! I'm just a simple filmmaker trying to get the truth out to people about Rons. I know it will take a lot of processing and reevaluating, but sometimes that's just how education works.

I would give you some information about peaceful efforts to try to bring them to justice, but I'm on a budget, so instead I'll give you a link to some sites that collect Ron horror stories for all to see.

Maybe the next film can blow the lid on Mexicans. Or Muslims.

Eh, I'm beating a dead horse, I think you get my point.

Let's not kid ourselves about this being educational. Shocking, and deeply troubling, but it's designed to generate heat, not light.

It'd be good to try to channel the heat into something positive, rather than let it just fester.

There's no spin. It's an accurate and fair assessment of the situation. There are more players in the game than just Isreal and the Palestinians. There's plenty of blame to spread around and the situation is not the sole pervue of any one side.

I have more historical perspective than you perhaps, but I recall quite well the peace efforts of the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 00s where Isreal made concession after concession after concession. But it was never enough. The objective of the militant Pals is not peaceful coexistence. It is the complete elimination of the Isreali state.

Therefore you and others like you are operating from a false position that only exists within the confines of your fantasies. You probably haven't been around long enough, and so you don't remember that this is all ground that has been covered before over and over and over.

You think that Isreal is to blame for this mess because you think there is some mythical 'concession' Isreal could make that would make the Palestinians happy. Baloney. The so-called 'peace' talks of the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 00s proved unequivocally that there are NO concessions Isreal can make that will satisfy the Palestinians. The only thing that will satisfy them is when Isreal is booted out of 'thier' country.

So your argument is an utterly false magician's choice, and I think even yo know this deep down. Isreal is doing what it thinks it needs to do in order to prevent the deaths of thier citizens. That's the right of any country, and the main duty of a government. I don't blame them for that. They want security from a bunch of uncompromising, half-insane terrorists. Who doesn't?

What the Palestinians need to do is reign in thier extremists and show they are willing to give Isreal a peaceful option that will actually work. Frankly, I don't think that is possible because there are too many factions in the Middle East (Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, et al) that are too intent on keeping a bunch of poor, angry Palestinians around as a stable of useful idiots to funnel bombs to.

>> ^Irishman:
[snip]
If Americans think that the world is angry about Bush, just you wait and see what the world will think of America if Obama doesn't condemn this and stop funding and supporting the Israeli military machine.
[snip]

Hmm, that sounds familiar. Oh yeah, sounds like this:

>> ^Irishman:
What is wrong with people's heads who can't see this. It's plain daylight stuff folks, the stuff Obama has been saying should really be scaring the shit out of people.
Wrong president America, wrong president. Europe and the rest of the world will NEVER forgive America for electing this man.


Funny, you were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

Stop claiming to speak for the whole world.

Count me as one of the people not impressed by Obama's silence. However, I don't think he'd be silent if he was in complete agreement with Bush's stance on these events. Right now, Bush is saying "Isreal, you're justified, but do try not to kill too many innocent people, it'd reflect badly on my reputation."

I doubt he'll take a stance that satisfies you, since you want the US to write off Israel, and I think we know Obama won't do that. We'll see what he does, but I doubt he'll be completely supportive of only one side; he'll probably make a speech that's long, complex, nuanced, and says negative things about both parties.

I'm not smart enough to predict what he'll say or do exactly, but I can predict your response: to claim to speak for the WHOLE WORLD in condemning Obama, regardless of his choice, and have it turn out that you're not even representative of your own country, much less the world at large.

I'm with ya on how much this situation sucks, and how there are horrors being committed by Israel right now, but I can't really see how focusing on trying to smear Obama for being predisposed to be on Israel's side is really helping anyone further a peace effort. Seems more like a political agenda for governance in the US than a peace agenda for the world, but maybe that's just me.