“ It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.”
No…it is at odds with your position and is not what I said.
It is factual history that fighting age European Jews came armed and forcibly displaced the natives after being offered sanctuary for their most needy. It is not factual that I claimed it was ever thus. That is clearly not what I said, I said for 10+- years they were getting along as refugees, then started coming in HUGE numbers illegally and taking over.

Those are facts.

I also mentioned a native Jewish population that were not refugees or invaders. Some of them supported the invading Zionists, some didn’t. I’ve never heard of one who opposed them.

“ You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.”

Not even close to true, I said many stood behind the Zionists when they started coming en masse, and didn’t say but seemingly few to none of the native Jews opposed them. I also was clear that at the beginning the refugees acted like refugees, not invaders….I mistakenly gave them more time being grateful than you say they were, according to you Palestinians position is they began the invasion in the 20’s….and theirs is the opinion I care about. I never claimed ALL Arabs were welcoming, but the “nation” as a whole (despite being not self ruling at the time) welcomed a huge number of refugees considering their own population. Way more than elsewhere.

Edit: Britain, who facilitated this invasion, only took in 80000 European Jews in the decade before and during the war, and they were only given transit visas to stay temporarily until they found other accommodations. All of England took in fewer Jewish refugees in all pre war history than Palestine did….England took in 80000, most on temporary visas, Palestine took in 60000 permanently in 1935 alone, and 130000 in 33-36.
Pre-immigration Palestine had about 700000 people. In 1944 European Jews ignored the 1500 visa limit per year and came by the hundred of thousands per year after already completely overwhelming the native population.
Palestine was forcibly invaded by a foreign population exponentially bigger than the native population while Britain kept them too weak to oppose it physically.
That’s an invasion…not on day 1. 🤦‍♂️

“ without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey ”

Again, I said day 3, not day 1, and went on to say that meant 10 years later. Get off your high horse and READ buddy.

I guess I’ll stop here. If you aren’t going to read what I wrote and insist on arguing red herrings you made up yourself, you can do that alone.

Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the fact that masses of armed violent invaders came to take the land from the natives by force and were successful. The exact date this happened is not only y highly subjective, it’s completely besides the point.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the inhuman treatment they’ve subjected the innocent native civilian population to for 70 years…but you’ve tried.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the intentional targeting of trapped civilians by the military….serious war crimes Israel commits daily.
Nothing you’ve said even hints that you consider Palestinians worthy of consideration themselves, possibly not even human status, definitely not peaceful existence.

Bye

“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

lots of nods to akira.

It’s far from just letting others say it with no contradiction for months, it was the same hosts themselves saying the election was stolen that now admit they never believed the big lie, so could never have believed Dominion orchestrated it.

The great part is this essentially makes the case for Dominion, because part of winning their case involves proving malice, and saying these horrible lies day after day when you know they aren’t true, inviting the same conspiracy mongers on day after day to sell the same ever more convoluted lies for months, knowing what they say is nonsense and nodding along and agreeing knowing you are not only ruining a multi billion dollar business with lies but also putting its employee’s lives at risk from your viewers, all because the machines functioned properly and didn’t give the election outcome you wanted is pretty much the definition of malice.
Dominion deserves every penny of the $1.6 billion they request for actual damages then triple it for punitive damages.

Nice use of GEB specifically as a nod to the fantastic book Godel Escher Bach - my edition at least has exactly this shape on the cover.

There’s this thing about bribing people that I think you’re well aware of….they don’t stay bought. Just look at Trump. He and his family personally took tens-hundreds of millions from China, talked them up for years, then turned on them when his trade talks failed.
For Biden to be under their control, he would have to be fed a constant stream of illicit money….like the Trumps all were. There is absolutely zero evidence Biden has taken a dime from the Chinese, unlike every single Trump that were all bribed publicly with millions in “gifts” from the Chinese government.

Trump didn’t nod, he outright told China they could expand in every direction, and they did under Trump….not under Biden.

Worse for the anti democracy, domestic terrorist crowd, that’s a good thing for Americans, Bobski.

Not one of those things is worse under Biden.
Inflation, happened under Trump.
Backed up ports, a red herring, Oakland port has no backup at all and is asking those stuck in LA to go there. The backup is planned. The appearance of shortages lead to rushes on goods….it’s marketing, not logistics.
Green energy is cheaper, cleaner, and a path to PERMANENT energy independence…something we absolutely did not have under Trump, we imported SO much oil, and spilled plenty.
Cost me an extra $.50- $.75 to fill my car, which happens EVERY SINGLE SUMMER Bob. Last year it didn’t because no one could go anywhere thanks to moronic Covid response that made us the absolute worst per capita for developed nations….Australian territories only closed for 8 days and had 0 deaths….did you know that Bob? They had leadership from adults, not denial from an infant.
Not higher food prices here, must be a you thing….or maybe a failed red state problem.
Empty shelves. Now I know it’s a red state thing….you’re on the east coast, so you can’t blame it on the fake shipping backup….what happened to NC that it’s fallen to shit? You know the second major factor in the shipping issues in LA are due to a much better economy and more people buying goods than last year, don’t you?
Also, do you even remember last year? Probably not. Those were empty shelves, Bob. Shortages on EVERYTHING from cars to meat to TP, even water. Literally empty shelves, not just in your fantasy world.

California has none of your problems, sounds like a red state leadership issue.

Know what else we've lost? Pandemic misinformation that's led to over 1/2 million dead Americans that need not have died and untold trillions in economic losses that need not have happened. That alone vastly outweighs every whine you've cried even if they were real and Biden's fault....which they aren't.



Let’s go Brendon….you really are proud of that cowardly whining aren’t you. You don’t even have the balls to say fuck you Biden, which we all know is what you’re saying. Sad little coward, throwing tantrums like a two year old. Nothing ever changes with you. 4 year olds have more honesty and spine than your entire failing political party combined. Cowards.


Republicans do not want Democrats to succeed, they want them expelled, or burned to death, or shot en masse. You’re such a bare faced liar and coward. You want enforced mask and vaccine mandates, free school lunches, and access to legal safe abortions? No? Then you don’t want everyone to succeed.

My portfolio has gone up more under Biden in 6 months than it lost under 4 years of Trump. He made the nation a constant victim, Biden rescued us from an abusive brain damaged parent….the kind you like. The kind I fear you likely are.

Biden isn't being bribed He is already bought.

Build back better is a nod to the Chinese CCP leaders to fully take back HK and Taiwan,

Bidens Build back better policies have only made America worse.

Inflation,
backed up ports,
loss of energy independence ,
the extra 15$ to fill up the car
Higher food prices ,
Empty shelfs.

Trump caused it?
Lets Go Brendon.

Republicans want everyone to succeed. Democrats want everyone to be a victim. And Biden and his party is making this true.

Yeah, you laugh, but this is pretty much a real thing. I didn't know you're not supposed to make eye contact with fellow riders on the Tube. Being the happy American sort, I did exactly that, including a smile and a nod to the poor bastard who looked up at exactly the wrong moment. The look of disgust and British disapproval on his face would done a New Yorker proud.

I've never wished I had a fart in the chamber so bad in my entire life.

Priorities, am I right?

Absolutely sickening.

And infuriating. Especially knowing all the dimwitted lemmings who hang on his every word are nodding their heads, smiling, and clapping at everything he says from "it's no pandemic" to "just keep going to work" to "yes, I knew it was a pandemic first."

And they're going to ensure he has another 4 years of lies, abuse of power, and hypocrisy.

this right here is what drives me absolutely bonkers.

you proceed from a false premise:
that "wealth" translates to being less corruptible.

blindly ignoring what wealth actual not only IS,but what it represents to the elite class in America.

power.

so could we please STOP with how much trump is actually worth,as if it has any inherent meaning in terms of power?


i do not understand wasting time with an ideologue,or dissecting his obviously conflicting comments as somehow expressing a clear and definable philosophy.these people play in the realm of cult of personality,spectacle and magical thinking.

their adoration for a particular public figure is cultish,and has very little to do with reality but more how their idol represents an ideal that they feel very strongly about.

so are we really surprised that bob will give Alexandria ocasio cortez a nod for exposing how easy it is to corrupt the system,but then conveniently excuse his idol and give him a pass based on the flimsiest of reasons:wealth.

when it was Alexandria ocasio cortez's lightning round that exposed how it is actually EASIER for the executive branch and the president to sell their influence for money.

but to bob,and how he sees things,the very idea that trump would ever engage in a breach of morality,and break his promise to the American people...is preposterous,...because trump already has money,why would he sell his integrity?

because BOB has integrity.
because BOB would never break a promise.
this is basic projection of ones morality onto a figure they admire.
we can apply the exact same metric to those who voted for Obama.same thing.same results.

you will never get bob to admonish his hero,because that hero represents the IDEA of what bob is projecting,not the actual reality.

fundamentalists engage in the exact same magical thinking.

so how can i get mad for bob,and the other trumpsters of the world?
i pity them.
because delusional dreams always crash on the shores of the real eventually.

and that is going to be a sad day for bob.

/me nods.

Well... a smile, nod or a tip of the hat conveys the same sentiment for an adult. We can all keep the same friendliness-at-heart no matter the age.

Money that China is pumping into African countries is making it down to tangible things that average people can see and benefit from. People are finding it easier to secure loans in South Africa, Ghana, and Nigeria financed by Chinese banks then via british or american banks.

I do give a nod to Bill Gates and his initiatives, but even his project fail when it comes to the one thing the average person needs most, capital investment.