I actually knew a few of the people involved. DigiPen (where the students who designed Portal went) was just up the road (and my second choice for a CGI school) from where I got my education in computer animation. I used to hang out with Ben Morris who built level design tools for Doom and Quake back in the day and went on to build the level design tool for Valve that they used on Halflife and Portal.

I also worked on Navy Seals, the project Gooseman did before Counter Strike.

Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and keep collaborating with some of those folks instead of finding a different path (animating for TV shows).

Totally agree about the levels. I thought they very repetitive. After a few hours I felt like I had done it all in the new doom.

The level design was a key feature of the original dooms, and totally absent here.

Getting locked into a room every few minutes is really repetitive and annoying.

I loved the previous one (and the original ones back in the day). Can't wait for this one.

More than the procedural level design, what I really wished for in the previous one was different textures/models, according to the part of the world the level took place. No matter where in the world the action was happening, it always looked like new york or something.

The rumor is they're waiting out for an exclusive or timed exclusive offer from MS or Sony before announcing console release. Not that I care, I'll be playing on PC in Nov!

Looks good. Procedural level design is great news, the downside of the first was at some point you knew the layout of all the maps and it was predictable as hell. I hope they bring back some of the complexity that was missing from the recent reboot (e.g. multiple bases, base grid structure), or at least add new depth.

@Asmo

Except my daughter doesn't want to play other games--she wants to play Mario Brothers games. They have excellent game and level design. Why should she have to go elsewhere? Are you trying to say Mario Brothers games not for girls?

All my daughter is asking is to be allowed to play as the Princess--maybe after you free her from Bowser. That doesn't seem like much to ask, as it would have exactly zero effect on gameplay.

Personally, I'd go much farther and say when a game series continuously sends the message that women are helpless victims who need to be defended by men, when they're continuously objectified as trophies to be passed from player to villain and back to player again, then something is very wrong with that game and things need to change. Yeah, other games may be great, but why should that prevent people like Sarkeesian or myself from pointing out the games that aren't? Why should the trend itself not be pointed out when we can find examples of it outside of the Mario series?

No, it's not required that every game have a male/female playable character. It is, however, good business sense not to insult potential female customers of a product by portraying females (playable characters or NPCS) in sexist ways (or homosexual characters in bigoted ways, or ethnic minority characters in racist ways, while we're on the topic). This doesn't seem very difficult to understand and clearly game companies DO understand it because most are making great efforts to be diverse and more realistic in their portrayals of characters. However, just because some are trying doesn't mean we shouldn't point out the bullshit in those that don't. Games like the Mario platformer series, for instance.

You disagree with the way Sarkeesian presents her message... okay. I don't have a problem with that. I think everything you wrote grossly misrepresents what she's saying about games and gamers, but you're entitled to your opinion there.

Moving on... sorry you felt insulted. That was never my intent. But your comments on this issue are written in an extremely emotional manner as if you've somehow been personally wronged. If you don't want people to take it in that manner, you might want to think carefully about the tone your posts on this topic take. I have no idea what that link you provided was supposed to prove, so I'll just leave it alone.

On "Damsel in Distress," it's "your trope" because you've been--throughout this thread--defending it as if it is some bastion of literature that must be preserved. You are quite literally the only person I've ever seen actually try to defend it. And as I said, if it is that dear to you, you can have it. Games will still get made using it.

Other media,though, have long since moved on from it. Take the movie Die Hard as an example. Yeah, the main character's wife gets taken hostage by terrorists and that provides a nice emotional hook to move the plot forward--damsel in distress, right? If it were a game, though, we never would have heard from Holly Gennarro McClane again until Bruce Willis killed all the terrorists. Or maybe a video recording of her would show up after every "boss fight" where she tells John McClane, "Sorry honey, but I'm being kept in another part of the building."

But that's not what happens is it? The character of Holly is central to the plot of the movie and she appears nearly as much as John McClane does. She tries actively to subvert the terrorists by hiding her true identity and by taking responsibility to make sure the hostages are treated well during their captivity.

In other words she's portrayed as a real human being with personal agency throughout the movie.

And that's the point that you seem to be missing. That doesn't happen often in games despite the fact that it does happen in every other form of media (or at least in the examples from media that we generally consider "good"). When we are talking about the "Damsel in Distress" trope in games, THAT is what is being critiqued. Not the fact that someone was kidnapped to provide an emotional hook, but that one particular gender is always targeted and--to add insult to injury--is presented as weak, helpless, and without any agency of their own. They exist for the sole purpose of being rescued.

Thanks for the pro tip, BTW. Had no idea you were a pro at being a patronizing git but I'll take your word for it.

Missed musical rip-off/homage: 'Rise' by Pantera (E1M4).

Bonus fun fact: the main level designer for Doom 1 and Doom 2 was Sandy Petersen, the author of the classic Chaosium RPG "Call Of Chulhu" (which is a pretty big deal if you're into that sort of thing, as I was back then.)

And yes, I like Steam and all, but I recommend getting it from www.gog.com if you haven't purchased it yet. Support DRM free gaming.

A little SS2 trvia - Bioshock's level design aesthetics is loosely based around one of the levels in SS2.

>> ^sirex:

I must say i agree with him on BF3. I think i played BF2 about 400-500 hours. BF3 i've done less than 30 and im bored of it already.
Also the DRM, origin service, and web game lobby are all total bobwank.


I've had exactly the opposite experience...I have something like 90ish hours in BF2, but I have thusfar invested 96 hours in BF3...and at this rate I don't see myself getting tired of it for another 100-200. I'm curious as to your falling out with BF3...level design? For me Caspian Border and Grand Bazaar are as good as anything I played in BF2...and now we have the best of BF2 IN BF3.

Is it the change in physics? Can't dolphin dive? Can't spin like a top when prone?

I'm frustrated with the crashes, and they cannot be forgiven for that, but when it works, it provides me some of the most satisfying gameplay. But I'll admit...I know I have fun with it because I'm good at it. KD: 1.19, WL: 1.62, SPM: >380, and I finish in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in over 1/4 of my rounds.

I don't mind if a game is simular to another game or only a slight tweak , I just find it annoying when one is fincaily rewarded massively over another one when the other game accentually put the ground work down.

In the case of notch at least he admitted it was largely taken from fotress craft but the same would apply I would hope that the origonaters of an IP get rewarded fincaily to a fair extent.

my piont about changing the art work over is that focuses things on the game play and physics , if you were to come up with a bullshit % chart of how close one game is to another , I think angry birds would be very close to crush the castle be like 5% difference in game mechanics and that being only the launcher , its a bit like me taking doom replacing the guns and all the textures but keeping all the other mechanics and level designs exactly the same , where as a game that innovates properly would change the guns the ai the levels and the textures.

as I say I don't think things should be automaticly blocked or copping something largely is inherently a bad thing , the aspect I dislike is the lack of fair reinbursment and the lack of things being attributed properly , its like when you write an essay if you incoperate someone else's work into your work you attribute them.

saying that I bet ethical Developers probably don't attribute because if they did they would probably get sued for copyright infringement.

there are plenty of Games where I have enjoyed copying unreal toruniment - from quake 3 , mashed - from micro machines , worms from - original tank game. peggel from pachinko , plants v zombies form desctop tower defense.

in most of those examples sugnificant changes were made , more so than crush the castle to angry birds.

looking at plants v zombies as a good example of what I dislike you can have a very large company that has the resources to exploit a game more than the small developer and then they accentually steal the potential for that small developer to develop an IP to fruition. unlike back in the 80s when developers could come up with a new IP or mechanic typ and then gradualy develop it and build in size whalst coming up with new IP.

oh well i will stop blathering on , we probably agree on most things anyway.

>> ^Fletch:

>> ^westy:
Put it this way , if you replaced all the art work in crush the castle with angry birds most people would think it was angry birds.
... with catapults.

I'm just saying that if you put them side by side, the gameplay is different enough for me that I can prefer one over the other, as the catapult adds a timing aspect. The graphics are secondary for me, and not the core of what makes a particular game.
Yes, the targets were a rip-off. Would you be satisfied if the makers of Angry Birds recognized Crush the Castle in the same way Notch recognized Infiniminer, which he totally ripped off and made a mint? What about Fortresscraft, which is a huge ripoff of Minecraft? Who's at fault if one's game isn't popular enough to make lots of money? Gameplay, marketing, luck, timing and just the intent of the developer all play a part, and any one of them can sink an otherwise quality title. Crush the Castle is free to play online and only 99￠ on Android. How much money have you given the developers?

Game was good, but the puzzles were waay to easy. I guess that's what you get from a mainstream puzzle game that everyone has to be able to solve. Was always waiting for some real head-scratchers, but they never came

I liked the ending, and the level design was just superb. It's incredible that they managed to pull it off like that with the source engine.

Sadly, the last in-house id game I completely enjoyed was Quake 2. I don't have a lot of faith in them crafting a modern FPS experience... since Doom 3 was all monster closets and fairly poor level design.

The Unreal Engine is perhaps the easiest engine to create levels in, at least for me. I never got the hang of making levels in Source or any of the id Tech engines. Of course I am just talking the base level design. After that I don't know which would be easiest to add the effects and like to as I never got that far with the other two major ones. I like the looks of this, but agree that it is hard to judge it until we see it in action with AI and character animation. I love Rage and what id is doing with id Tech 5, but the character's look like they are deep in the uncanny valley at the moment.

I also agree that consoles really need a good midterm refresh. Not a full new system, more like a 360.5 and a PS3.5. For the 360 upgrade it to XBox 360 Blue.
This hypothetical 360 features not just a Blu-Ray drive, but one ups it by going for Blu-Ray XL compatible. Controllers/remote etc. upgrade to bluetooth, though the old controllers would still have to work for now, the idea is more to setup for the next generation. Tie in with Win 7 mobile devices so you can pick plays on sport games from them, have a remote control in them, and some other games may tie to them as an option as well in whatever form developers feel like they can do. If possible without breaking compatibility with old 360 games (360 Blue exclusive games would be available so they wouldn't work on the old 360 as they come on Blu-Ray) a mild refresh to the graphics, more memory mostly, but if possible a Direct X 11 compatible chip, of course at that point you are nearly at a full refresh and not just a mid-generation refresh. I would say make Live free so you can do Netflix and online play for free, and user replaceable hard drives, but I doubt Microsoft sees that as part of their plans.
The PS3 would be much the same, upgrade to XL and if possible more memory and a slight graphics increase...
With both you can't really do too much for a mid-term refresh without moving to what is essentially a new machine.
Computers are always ahead of consoles on what they can do, but this new 7-10 year cycle is starting to show its age more than usual. I sure hope they don't go 10 years, 2 more years would be more than enough...though if they were 2 years out I would think there would be more rumors of what they are doing by now, so we probably do have more than that.

Your video, Non-Euclidean Level Design in AA, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

>> ^poolcleaner:

>> ^mgittle:
Agreed with above...
Console tards...sigh...

What's with all the hate?


What's with not wanting me to dislike things? Is the "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" rule really a good rule? What about the guys at Bear Stearns who got fired for saying the housing market won't go up forever? It's like, my opinion, man, that it's totally the same thing. Stop trying to make me "irrationally positive or shut up" or something.

Also, if you've ever played portal on PC (I don't even know if #1 is available on console), some of the puzzles require pretty amazing timing, and I'm pretty sure they'd be near impossible with the analog stick aiming. So, if portal 2's puzzles get dumbed down on PC to comply with console input device limitations, I will be quite disappointed.

Not to mention challenge levels and speed runs...hopefully the console and PC versions simply have different level designs.

I'd like to see this on console:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPeL8ylhbBw

/rolleyes

Fair enough. I've always been one to love a great experience when it comes to gaming (Interstate '76, The Longest Journey, Deux Ex), but the faults that accompanied Bioshock, I guess prevented me from really experiencing that ... experience. Perhaps I'll try it again one day to see if I can overlook those fun-stopping elements.

There have been plenty of other games that offered a similarly excellent experience to the one you describe, that all had faults of their own. Somehow I was able to overlook those. Guess I'm not sure what it is about Bioshock that I despised so much as to disallow that.
>> ^mentality:
The gameplay was nothing exceptional, but definitely better than games like Fallout 3. And I totally understand when things like technical issues or how the gameplay "feels" can ruin a game. Also I agree that there is a lot of repetitiveness. The repetitiveness, however, stems from the limited variety of enemies that you fought - and not from repetitive level design as in the first Halo game.
Like I said, I never considered the gunplay to be a strength of Bioshock, and those negative aspects that you mentioned never really bothered me. For me, the setting was always the real star of the show. From lush underwater rainforests, to the opulent decadence of the operahouse, to the run down squalor of the underwater slums, no one has ever put together such a spectacular cast of locales with such believable fidelity. And each locale has its own story to tell - told through flashbacks and journals - of how it was twisted into the macabre and fallen vision that you see before you. Throwing you in alone into this creepy and hostile world, run by a powerful and malevolent madman, created a sense of danger and desperation evoked by great survival horror games like System Shock 2.
For me, Bioshock was one of the few games that managed to transcend the limitations of gaming and provided an interactive experience.