I'm sorry but you are simply wrong. America is rich largely because of it's slavery past which was cotton, which was textiles. It's why we grew so quickly and put ourselves in a place to overtake everyone after World War 2 when we literally had half the worlds wealth. There's plenty of economic history of this that you can research if you care to try.

The fear thing is pretty unique in America but not unique when you compare it to say a authoritarian society. Americans are a terrified people and it's easy to use it. You can look back at the first Gulf War when people were buying guys and camo and readying themselves in case Saddam came to attack the US. Which is insanity. In the Iraq War we were more terrified of Iraq than Kuwait and it's citizens were, and they had been attacked by them and were their closest neighbor. You can also see the fear today about taking peoples guns away, if we don't have guns we're all doomed, the government is coming or al qaeda is coming and we're all gonna die. Most of the rest of the world looks at us and laughs when we react all scared to nothing.

This cartoon pisses me off for one reason. It reminds me about the South Park guys bitching and moaning about how it was put in after Matts interview, so it looked to idiots like they had made it. Apparently that was enough for them to bitch and moan about it, I lost a lot of respect for Matt and Trea because of that.

I love how such a narrow clip provokes such wide-ranging discussion here on the Sift. I think the clip itself raises two central questions:
1) Is Islam - in this point in history - more dangerous a religious ideology than the others, and
2) Is such a question/comparison even relevant? Or perhaps "promotes Islamic hatred" as the douchebag facing Maher seems to think?

To 1), I've argued above that yes, it is. as for 2), raised mostly by the commenters here, I would have to say "no, but" to both. Religious (and non-religious) ideologies should be strongly and non-violently denounced whenever/wherever they do harm. In the US, for example, Christianity does way more harm (to women's/gay's/atheist's rights, to education, etc.) than Islam does, but neither excuses/diminishes the evil done by the other. The "but" would be for when people get accused of discrimination and "islamophobia" when calling out the evils of Islam.
The necessity of the second "but" is illustrated by @shinyblurry's comment: there is always the danger of right-wing and/or Christian fundamentalists taking criticism of Islam to be a defense/validation of their own strain of wrong/dangerous BS and/or racisms (to be fair, sb only exhibits the former). This is inevitable, and should not stop people from criticising/denouncing unethical ideologies, nor should it prompt amalgamation of "criticising Islam" with "hating the for'ners/ragheads/Muslims".

Beyond the subject of the video itself, the correlation between poor socio-politico-economico-etc. status and the adherence to extremes, a point well-made by @Babymech, @Yogi and others is an important factor in the higher numbers of "Islamist evil" worldwide, one that I am well aware of. There is no better way of turning whole populations to fundamentalist extremes (or at least worse ones than they had before; let's not fall into the "noble savage" fallacy) than by meddling with their politics and then bombing the hell out of them. The danger is to go to the extreme of excluding the very nature of those fundamentals from the picture, which is just as simplistic and false as is blaming them exclusively.

Moreover, I always shudder at the left-wing strain of argumentation which puts ALL the blame on the Western invaders, (edit: 19-20th c.) colonisation and co. This view relies heavily on the "noble savage" form of racism, which assumes that only "White people/Westerners/Judeo-Christians" can wreak political/social havoc in the lands of those poor, innocent "Brown people/Muslims" (those two often being conflated). Having lived in Africa for 5 years I have a knee-jerk reaction to this kind of self-centered guilt-tripping, which deprives the "Brown/Black people" of one aspect of human nature: the ability to be evil, to fuck themselves up without any help from the "West". They can, and they do.

This tangent may seem irrelevant here, but the reason I bring it up is because that it is this sentiment that is behind much of this "Islamophobe" name-calling in the US and Europe, and behind the difficulty many "Westerners" have in bare-facedly criticising Islam, when they often have no such difficulty with their "home"-religion, Christianity.

@aaronfr raises the problem of how to go about denouncing an unethical set of beliefs, and gives several good examples of how not to (it is noteworthy that the only example of violent action is one taken by other religious people; I have yet to hear of atheists using anything other than words and pictures to make their point). Hitchens’ endorsement of the Iraq war lowered my esteem for him greatly (somewhat saved by the fact that his stance on this was of no influence to anyone, contrary to his huge effort against the evils of religion), but it is noteworthy that he and Harris are the most criticised (and the least influential) when they hold such positions.
On the side of the religious, however, it is often the crazy fundies who are the loudest and, in certain areas (with the aid of socio-etc factors of course) the most influential. And they have, especially in the Quran and the life of M., a reliable and divine source of hate/violence-mongering.

As you say, peace and prosperity are some of the best deterrents to religious extremism and unethical behaviour (but not solely; cf: the US, Saudi Arabia and co.) This does not render unnecessary denouncing the unethical nature of Islam, Christianity, etc. As noted above, the negative effects of religion are still felt in relatively peaceful and prosperous nations today (in France, for example, homophobes of Christian, Muslim and possibly Jewish faiths are causing a significant rise in homophobic violence ever since the gay-marriage hearings).

So long as the distinction between "Islam(/religious ideology)" and "Muslim(/person)" remains clear, we should be free to criticise and denounce the former to our hearts content. (Note how "Islamophobia" shits all over that distinction; one of the many reasons that term should never be uttered unironically).

_{My apologies for the dissertation-length comment}

Did that last guy in the Fox clip actually say, "It's not a wise idea to go into another country and get into their politics."

This is from the network that pushed the Iraq war and pretty much any US intervention in foreign countries?

Heloooo irony is dead to these people.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Yeah maybe, but the fact remains that Phil Donahue was fired from MSNBC for taking a stance against the Iraq war - that's telling about the true ideology behind the network.

Any time some moron gets it into their head that their state should secede from the union or just any time someone think states should have more rights, they should watch the video and know that WE ALREADY TRIED TO DO THAT.

Same thing with the 2nd amendment. We already tried giving virtually everyone a firearm, it was called the old west. Guess what? people got sick of the idea that they might die just walking down the street to get milk so they started to put away the guns!

I'd say the biggest problem we have as a Nation is what this video already talked about. the founders understood the balance between too much democracy and too many rich landowners having power and I'd say that that's the problem we're in right now. The rich have far too much influence over our gov't. One could argue that that was the whole reason for the Iraq war. People who get rich off of war wanted more money.

We also need to completely remove private money from our elections.

Your video, Iraq War Veteran Explains Decision to End His Life, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

The internet morons absolutely imploded. It was the classic case of you have an idea in your head of Your Story, and you're the hero in it. And when someone points out how good you have it or you're really a bastard you react angrily to someone ruining your story.

Luckily for me I've always known I sucked, so it's very easy to go "Iraq war, yep that was my fault...slavery, that one was on me...Holocaust, well I am of German decent."

Kuwait is a tiny country, and didn't have nearly the military that Iraq had because of US support of Iraq. Do you remember until he attacked Kuwait he was a big Ally, we loved him and supported him right through his greatest atrocities.

The Gulf War was just us rolling over them, it wasn't even a fight it was us flexing our muscles and a good sign to other countries not to step out of line. We then allowed Saddam to stay in power by letting him crush the resistance against him which was serious and would've most likely overthrown him. We imposed sanctions that were in the words of Dennis Halliday "Genocidal." And which when asked if killing 500,000 Iraqi children was ok Madeline Albright said "We think the price is worth it."

Iran isn't like Iraq at all, either before the Gulf War or Before the Iraq War. It's got a much more powerful and technological military. Also the US is simply not as powerful as it was. Remember the Gulf War was just after the Wall Fell, we were the worlds only super power. The Iraq War was against a basically helpless nation (even Kuwait wasn't afraid of them anymore), and we were stuck there for years, it was ridiculous how we fucked it up so amazingly. Russia in Chechnya is pissing themselves over how we fucked it up so badly. If David Petraeus could do what Putin did, he's probably be considered the greatest military man the US had ever seen.

I'm sorry but we cannot invade Iran like we did Iraq, simply because the world is changing too quickly. It's not going to happen, and if it does, you'll see a real uprising in the US. The OWS thing has more sympathy than people think, it's just bubbling under the surface. If it's given a huge cause the troops will have to be called back to the US to control the population.

Also contrary to popular belief Wars don't make money, they cost money. Preparing for War makes money, the Military Industrial complex wants to always be spending money Preparing for War and not having to fight one that would take significant resources, like getting bogged down in Iran.

I'm sorry but it's just nothing like the same thing going on. I don't think we're going to be invading Iran on the ground ever do to the change in the power system and the enemy.

Yes, I am European, and you dont seem to have a clue about Europe.
Europe is nowhere near as extreme as the USA has become.
As I said, theres always only 2 sides in the US, and thats not even only in the media, its everywhere. How much did the 3rd strongest party get on your last vote? Not even 1%? That would be impossible in most European countries, even, or especially, Republics.
As I already said, forums are a pretty good gauge of that. Theres always only 2 opinions from 2 extreme sides. Other opinions are extremely rare and if they are mentioned, get flamed to the ground, so that an open discussion is impossible. Exactly that what you are doing to me right now.
Congratulations and thanks for proving my point.

Oh and yeah, I agree somewhat, that a lot of European politicians (incl. the elite) are retarded, but they dont tow the line, they lick American heel. As does most of the rest of the world, since the USA is a super power that has been messing and still messes around in most countries affairs in unbelievable ways. Thankfully around 80% of the European people have realized that. That was also the percentage that was AGAINST the Iraq war in Europe. What was the percentage in the US? Yeah...

Joris Luyendijk - They're just like people (2006)

"
In People Like Us, which became a bestseller in Holland, Joris Luyendijk tells the story of his five years as a correspondent in the Middle East. Extremely young for a correspondent but fluent in Arabic, he spoke with stone throwers and terrorists, taxi drivers and professors, victims and aggressors, and all of their families. He chronicles first-hand experiences of dictatorship, occupation, terror, and war. His stories cast light on a number of major crises, from the Iraq War to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, along with less-reported issues such as underage orphan trash-collectors in Cairo.

The more he witnessed, the less he understood, and he became increasingly aware of the yawning gap between what he saw on the ground and what was later reported in the media. As a correspondent, he was privy to a multitude of narratives with conflicting implications, and he saw over and over again that the media favored the stories that would be sure to confirm the popularly held, oversimplified beliefs of westerners. In People Like Us, Luyendijk deploys powerful examples, leavened with humor, to demonstrate the ways in which the media gives us a filtered, altered, and manipulated image of reality in the Middle East." -- amazon
http://www.amazon.com/People-Like-Us-Misrepresenting-Middle/dp/1593762569

I have no affiliation with the book, except to say I've read it and its amazing. Its brilliant at describing both the Palestinian and Israeli media extravaganza and what both sides do to get on the cover of time magazine. You'll be ashamed of the way our media forms us about the conflict and about the entire region and how wrong we all are.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^coolhund:
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^coolhund:
If Romney is elected, I will loose all my respect for America.
How anyone can vote someone like Romney after 8 years of Bush, is beyond any of my understanding and tolerance.

So where are you from just wondering? I just can't let this pass. Obama is worse than Bush. I'll say it again...OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH. The only reason why the World...and that is intellectuals and leaders not the population but the only reason why they like Obama better than Bush is because Obama is NICER about being a fucking evil bastard. Bush just said straight up, we don't care what you think. Obama says with a smile that it doesn't matter what you think.
Obama is continuing and expanding the murderous policies from under Bush he's just being nicer about it.

Im from Baghdad and lost my whole family to Bush. Will you now shut up? WTF is that kind of stupid question?
Seriously, I actually supported Bush the first legislation and most of his second. But I learned from my mistakes, and that mistake is huge and something I feel really bad about, because so many people told me that I was wrong before and then I got it in the face when he admitted the Iraq war was a lie and several other unbelievable corruption stuff under his watch, outgoing from republicans. This guy started so much shit, that will haunt us for hundreds of years, and of course Obama cant do shit about it, with the republican obstructionists in the congress. However you see how he tries it, and how he tries to please the republicans at least a little, so they dont block the other 25% of the stuff he actually was able to change. Just look for how long he fought for something essential like Medicare, that many other western countries, WHICH ARE NOT SOCIALISTS, have had implemented for decades and have it working fine.
As I said, Obama is actually trying a lot to make things better, but the president is no dictator. Just look at the republican lies, that were so successful that even democrats believe them now. And people like you who have no clue about politics actually believe republicans claiming Obama is so bad, while THEY are blocking everything he does.
Dont get me wrong, Obama did a lot of crap by himself too, just like every other president before, but to say he is WORSE than Bush... lol... seriously?

Noam Chomsky says he's worse than Bush, has written and presented the evidence that he's worse than Bush. The Most Important Intellectual and US Critic says that Obama is worse than Bush. Go read what he wrote, I can't convince you here.


I would actually believe it, if I watched too much Fox News and believed that there was no economic crash right before Obama went to office and I was blind and stupid enough to not see that other countries dont fare better (not even Germany) and have very similar changes to that what republicans try to blame on Obama.
I just saw some idiot video on Youtube where someone compared the gas prices from right before Obama went to office to where they are now, of course telling that it will rise and rise much higher with ONLY Obama in office. That under Bush they were actually much higher and dropped to such low numbers before Obama due to a massive economic crisis, was left out.

I understand the right wing propaganda very well. As I said, my thoughts were similar some time ago.

>> ^coolhund:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^coolhund:
If Romney is elected, I will loose all my respect for America.
How anyone can vote someone like Romney after 8 years of Bush, is beyond any of my understanding and tolerance.

So where are you from just wondering? I just can't let this pass. Obama is worse than Bush. I'll say it again...OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH. The only reason why the World...and that is intellectuals and leaders not the population but the only reason why they like Obama better than Bush is because Obama is NICER about being a fucking evil bastard. Bush just said straight up, we don't care what you think. Obama says with a smile that it doesn't matter what you think.
Obama is continuing and expanding the murderous policies from under Bush he's just being nicer about it.

Im from Baghdad and lost my whole family to Bush. Will you now shut up? WTF is that kind of stupid question?
Seriously, I actually supported Bush the first legislation and most of his second. But I learned from my mistakes, and that mistake is huge and something I feel really bad about, because so many people told me that I was wrong before and then I got it in the face when he admitted the Iraq war was a lie and several other unbelievable corruption stuff under his watch, outgoing from republicans. This guy started so much shit, that will haunt us for hundreds of years, and of course Obama cant do shit about it, with the republican obstructionists in the congress. However you see how he tries it, and how he tries to please the republicans at least a little, so they dont block the other 25% of the stuff he actually was able to change. Just look for how long he fought for something essential like Medicare, that many other western countries, WHICH ARE NOT SOCIALISTS, have had implemented for decades and have it working fine.
As I said, Obama is actually trying a lot to make things better, but the president is no dictator. Just look at the republican lies, that were so successful that even democrats believe them now. And people like you who have no clue about politics actually believe republicans claiming Obama is so bad, while THEY are blocking everything he does.
Dont get me wrong, Obama did a lot of crap by himself too, just like every other president before, but to say he is WORSE than Bush... lol... seriously?


Noam Chomsky says he's worse than Bush, has written and presented the evidence that he's worse than Bush. The Most Important Intellectual and US Critic says that Obama is worse than Bush. Go read what he wrote, I can't convince you here.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^coolhund:
If Romney is elected, I will loose all my respect for America.
How anyone can vote someone like Romney after 8 years of Bush, is beyond any of my understanding and tolerance.

So where are you from just wondering? I just can't let this pass. Obama is worse than Bush. I'll say it again...OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH. The only reason why the World...and that is intellectuals and leaders not the population but the only reason why they like Obama better than Bush is because Obama is NICER about being a fucking evil bastard. Bush just said straight up, we don't care what you think. Obama says with a smile that it doesn't matter what you think.
Obama is continuing and expanding the murderous policies from under Bush he's just being nicer about it.


Im from Baghdad and lost my whole family to Bush. Will you now shut up? WTF is that kind of stupid question?

Seriously, I actually supported Bush the first legislation and most of his second. But I learned from my mistakes, and that mistake is huge and something I feel really bad about, because so many people told me that I was wrong before and then I got it in the face when he admitted the Iraq war was a lie and several other unbelievable corruption stuff under his watch, outgoing from republicans. This guy started so much shit, that will haunt us for hundreds of years, and of course Obama cant do shit about it, with the republican obstructionists in the congress. However you see how he tries it, and how he tries to please the republicans at least a little, so they dont block the other 25% of the stuff he actually was able to change. Just look for how long he fought for something essential like Medicare, that many other western countries, WHICH ARE NOT SOCIALISTS, have had implemented for decades and have it working fine.

As I said, Obama is actually trying a lot to make things better, but the president is no dictator. Just look at the republican lies, that were so successful that even democrats believe them now. And people like you who have no clue about politics actually believe republicans claiming Obama is so bad, while THEY are blocking everything he does.
Dont get me wrong, Obama did a lot of crap by himself too, just like every other president before, but to say he is WORSE than Bush... lol... seriously?

I agree. Think it was made as a sort of catharsis for all of the things that weren't (or couldn't be) said during the run-up to the Afghanistan and Iraq wars...

"Sorry, I know you disapprove of swearing so I'll sort that out. You are a boring F, star, star, CUNT!"

>> ^kulpims:

a very underrated movie, I always thought

ObamaCare,
Fast and Furious.
Solondra,
Gas prices have doubled
Food prices up around 30%
average 4k in lost incomes,
First President to preside over a cut to the credit rating of the United States,
First President to spend a trillion dollars on shovel-ready jobs and later admit there was no such thing as shovel-ready jobs.
First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which state they are allowed to locate a factory, (Boeing) ,
First President to coddle American enemies while alienating Americas allies.,

The Obama Presidency is a Failed Presidency.


>> ^volumptuous:

First of all, it was the kids father, who is a Iraq war veteran, who approached Obama. Not the other way around you nincampoop.
2nd, name one failure that makes Obama's presidency a "failed presidency".

>> ^bobknight33:
Using Children as a pawns for a cover of a failed presidency.