When you have to carry a child, sustaining it with your body even if you know it may kill you, or cannot live outside your womb, or will require constant medical attention at taxpayer expense because you have no money and this unintended pregnancy ends your career, then you can have a say. Until then, what you think is irrelevant.

You left out birth control failure....not that any of your exceptions exist in this new anti woman law. I hope all the decent thinking women in Texas move. I know some ready to. This can only dumb down an already short bus state.

Rape survivors had no choice. Incest survivors had no choice. Birth control failures were not by choice. None of these are exempt. Medical inability to safely carry a child.....that's up to doctors and courts to determine...doctors and courts with anti choice agendas wielding great power while shirking any responsibility.

You're such a misogynistic asshole. If men carried embryos abortions wouldn't just be available in every doctors office, they would be free, and there would be absolutely zero roadblocks to getting one on demand. You would have had at least three, I know full well you're far too stupid to be smart about sex even if you bore the brunt. You would impose Sharia law to remove autonomy from women only because it's unlikely to effect you. How about this....every time a woman is denied an abortion, the man who got her pregnant must have their entire penis removed and be forced into indentured servitude to pay for the bills....over $200000 on average. When you fight for that and win, you get a voice in this woman's issue.

Every time you get out the tweezers and Jack off, you've aborted millions of potential babies. You've therefore, by your definitions, personally murdered more babies than any group of women ever could. Obviously you don't care a bit when you are the murderers....then those unborn children don't count, even though the bible actually specifically says they do but never mentions abortion.

Hilariously, the party of "personal freedom" to make decisions about your own life doesn't believe women should enjoy that freedom....just like you claim to be the party of law and order....but only for others not yourselves.

If it can't live without help outside the womb, it's not a baby, it's a parasite living off another human being. If you think it's ok to force one person to be a life support system for a not yet human, get your ass down to the hospital and donate your kidney, liver, and stay at least 9 months as a transfusion donor without an option to quit...and pay the bills for those you saved. Until then, shut your idiotic hypocritical mouth you moronic woman hating dumb ass.

The Spartans were right, it's not a human until it's first birthday.

Why aren't you busy telling us how Trump will be reinstated as president in August? You know it will happen, a crack head said so. You do know Trump is pro-abortion and has arranged many, right?

Already have the highest level of incarceration in the world. How's that workin out aside from the free labour and profits for private prisons? Probably need more indentured workers in the system to compete with the Chinese using Uyghur labour?

$7500 for dereliction of duty that killed an entire flight crew and an expensive aircraft?! Colonel Pellerin and the rest of the officers involved should be indentured servants with no pay until they pay off the price of the plane (so for life), and be in prison for the length of time he stole from those flight crew's lives....they should definitely be forced to hand their pension over to their victims and lose their rank if there was such a thing as military justice.
I'm more than a little surprised no one killed that show off in self defense....the next time a pilot takes his bomber to 3', eject him.

1) I question your sources, because some of the earliest writings ever found were business ledgers dealing with selling grains as I understand it. Capitalism has been a thing since before writing was a thing.

2) um...I think those kids in China would dispute that....THEY made the Iphones, which created a smart phone market by being useful and fun (for most people).

3) do you believe capitalism and the industrial revolution started at the same time, or that capitalism has something to do with surfs, civil rights, or secularism? Capitalism applied to people is indentured servitude, what we lazily call slavery. Unfettered capitalism created a situation where civil rights needed to be delineated and codified, it didn't create them any more than wildfires created firemen imo.

Some people do educate themselves before acting or making purchases, but it's not the norm.

Capitalism says your poor neighbors should die, because capitalism says there is no value to human life...I did a term paper on that. Value is derived from a supply/demand equation, and there's such a glut of humanity that human life has a negative value.

The government paid for around 75% of the technology development. "...it paid for some of the technology...." is incredibly misleading, if technically correct (the best kind of correct). Without a healthy dose of socialism, progress slows to a crawl and only the privileged few can afford it.

1 word....flip-phones. ;-) (I don't even have one of those)

I think that may depend on your viewpoint.

A lot of native Americans would certainly take exception at having their treatment ignored, and I believe we at least started that genocide before African slaves were imported in large numbers.

Also, it bears noting that indentured servitude was (according to my history teacher) more prevalent in the early colonies than actual slavery....they were mostly poor whites.

I'm not trying to minimize the effects of slavery and racism, just pointing out it wasn't our first or only sin that needs "healing".

ooooh shit.nice one @ChaosEngine!
since many here have already pointed out some nice perspective and historical context,allow to just add two points to this fine thread:

1.the real question has little to do with race.that is a canard that is shoved down our throats constantly and while many still buy into that bullshit,many of us are waking up to the fact we are having are chains jerked.the problems do not lie with race or culture but rather between the powerful and the powerless.

2.i hate to break to those folks who identify with the term "white" but that term is just a politically manufactured term created in the mid the late 1600's,that term had never been used before...ever.the term was politically created to manipulate poor european indentured servants to identify more with their much more privileged and wealthy european plantation owners,in order to dominate and control a growing african slave population.

thats a lil tidbit they tended to leave out in american history but without it the civil war doesnt make a whole lot of sense.

i mean think about it:we were taught that the civil war was basically about states rights.
yes..the states right to have and keep slaves and continue into the newly appropriated land (actual STOLEN,from mexico).

so how do you get a poor,penniless white person to go fight a war so their wealthy counterparts can keep their slaves?which would directly affect their employment options and henceforth keep them jobless and penniless.

you convince them the color of their skin is what matters most!
a political ploy that worked brilliantly.

Um....did you forget what color the slaves that built the pyramids were? Have you heard of indentured servitude? Ever heard of an empire called Rome? Whites HAVE a history of being slaves.
Have you forgotten how the Irish, or German, or Chinese, or Japanese, etc. were treated? White, and other non-blacks have been treated as dirty on mass for the color of their skin, or the lilt of their voice, or the shape of their eyes, really for just about every ridiculous reason man could think of. Blacks have no monopoly on a history of mistreatment of their 'group'. They do seem to be the main target today however.
Do you think ghettos are 100% black? Let me dissuade you of that fallacy...they are not. Many 'white' people have LIVED many if not all of the experiences of people of color, for example, mixed race people (particularly those in the south), adopted white babies in black families, and whites that simply identify more closely with a 'black' community. Not ALL white people are ignorant of the reality and implications of racism. Some are.
Because 'white people' may not have ALL the answers does not mean they should not have a voice at the table discussing racial issues....but they should certainly not be the only voice either....they probably should not be the loudest voice too.

pfft, the rich have welfare, they just call it tax breaks, and they have the lobbyists to keep them.

No one wants those on foodstamps to use them for alcohol and other frivolous items. name me one non-foodstamp-using person who does? It's a strawman that the right obsessively cling to.

As with so many things, it's not about laws or bureaucracy, it's about enforcement. laws mean nothing without enforcement. I'm getting sick of seeing more and more panhandlers downtown where I live and I completely agree that handouts are not an efficient solution.

but you know what isn't a good solution either? negative reinforcement. We've been living under the conservative idea that if we just keep punishing the poor and making their lives more miserable, then obviously that will be motivation to not be poor.

IT DOESN'T WORK. maybe it works for a small percentage of people, but those people aren't poor then. so you have a group of people that are continually being punished and devalued for no good fucking reason because if they aren't motivated to not be poor under these kinds of conditions, then they never will be.

so again, we have this situation where there are two solutions that aren't really effective, but one is slightly less bad than the other. sure some people may use their foodstamps for alcohol and other shit...but many people do actually use their foodstamps for...food. shock.

Even if you had a much more equal distribution of wealth, we're still going to have poor people and people in poverty.

I think the issue is largely mired in health, physical and mental. Even with all our technology...mental health is still unreliable and some people are so physically impaired that they can't work or work well.

Despite largely claiming to be pro-life, the right would either secretly want them to die alone in an alley or make them indentured servants to some corporation if they aren't already. That, I submit, is no life, at least not a good and healthy one.

I don't have the answer, all we can really do is point out that many of the things we've tried aren't working and will never work, and even if there are some successes, it's still largely inefficient, but what's the alternative? if you are "pro-life" then an inefficient solution is still preferable to a solution that simply doesn't work. So I call bullshit on people who like to claim they have the solution. If someone out there has the solution, they certainly haven't demonstrated it yet.

I have explained my reasoning for the terms I used, which are the norm for those discussing this topic.
You are welcome to your own opinion.

And you are incorrect that "everyone is against slavery in 2014". It has been often reported that there are more people being held in 'slavery' today than during the civil war around the globe, so obviously 'everyone' is not against it!
And some of us are proponents of voluntary indentured servitude, which some people might call slavery.

"Ultimately it placates the opposition while not actually educating anyone, least of all those who are supportive of existing power."-Sounds like you're describing any and all alleged news organizations whose name(s) are ubiquitous with "news!"

and another, " As enlightened, open-minded individuals, we can do better than this."

Are you speaking for the giants of ineffectual mumblings like saaaay, Hitchens or Chomsky, or the internet-educated self-aware, the indentured meatsacks who if they had a plan, would toke a doobie and finish one more quest or porn clip before taking action?

Not so, slavery in the U.S. was historically unique in it's brutality and scope and the descendants of slaves live in another form of subjugation under the guise of rights under the law and equality. The system in place now insures that black people in the U.S. will be treated to inordinate scrutiny as citizens and extraordinary rendition in the form of profiling, imprisonment both physically or economically, and an unsurpassed recidivism in the Petri dish of criminals which is, the U.S. Prison Corporation, ltd., which only serves to justify more prisons to warehouse undesirables.

Except for perhaps Chinese dynasties during the construction of the wall other examples of slavery in history, even biblical slavery...Rome, Greece, these societies did not treat their slaves to the hopelessness we in America treated the Africans to.

If you consider slavery 'wrong' you might want to look at how well maintained your own existence has become-Slavery has simply become your indentured duty to invisible masters as you pay-to-play the game of life.
The slave masters of today do not carry whips or pistols but he still works you for long, unending hours and enjoys the fruits of your labor at day's end.

Which leads me to the drum I've always beat on the issue of heath and happiness in the land of Planet Chaos: The success of the health care anomaly in the U.S. is predicated on a chaotic decline in the overall health of the general population, that's how that machine makes ungodly amounts of money, as a partner-in-crime with insurance (mafiosi-style protection) companies and medical professionals (dealers/cleaners/fixers/hit-men) who, partnered with successful criminals like advertising execs and processed-foods concerns, insure for future generations a steady dose of being continually ill and feeling like they are about to die. Combine these psychotics with keeping peeps too distracted with $(illusion)$ and work to think clearly and the bulk of a country's population addicted to misdirection, newsspeak, and intentional reinforcement of intent and "responsibility" to the programming-arm (television, internet, regulated and controlled media ) of the above-described machine, and you have a bunch of robots thinking that they are about to die who are easily herded into the cattle truck of indentured-for-life, wage-slavery.

The best health care system is one where the majority of the population of a country is relatively healthy up and until the moment of cascading failures associated with time.

The system we have now or any fix, will only work to the benefit of all with a nation of fit people, not fat, lazy, ignorant globs of flesh who are incapacitated through the negative reinforcement described above, and the perpetrators of the same, eliminated....Or, put these criminals in a box or prison or otherwise not allowed to work their evil.

In other words, the United States health care system has been designed to implode upon itself with the criminals who built it, fleeing to their fortified compounds to be protected by dutiful armies and local constabularies, otherwise known as PAID BODY GAURDS.

Every time I chime-in on this retarded phenomena (another in a long-line of developmental disabilities engaged in by modern-day peeps) the cringe releases another gush of acids into my already damaged sphincters-More and more idiots on the road who can't drive anyway with worthless device #836 in their hands letting their robot friends know whats in their heads instead of concentrating on the 3-ton beast they indenture themselves to be able to play moron roulette with.

On of the many reasons I stay pissed-off. Recently though, I must say that I have found a way to diminish the frequency of road-raging incidents. I keep a few cans of silly string from the dollar store in the glove box and instead of shouting at people, I engage them at a stop with an attention-grabbing insult, and quickly empty the can (into their face if I can) on and into their vehicle.

Not adverse to the occasional brake-check, the 1-minute-horn-loop, or bumper-tap, to wrest the head from a fellow-motorist's ass as well. Herding and sheep-dogging works wonders for cooling the cell-towers in the vicinity of my vehicle as well, oh there's all kinds of wonderful things to pay attention to whilst sharing the motorways with choggie.

Herzog has his appeal to idiots, I have mine.
Please make a law in my State with stiff penalties for cell phone use while driving, another monkey law like seat belts which becomes monkey habit...

The person who runs a pedestrian down while texting? A tattoo of a cell-phone keypad on their fucking forehead and 10,000 hours of community service picking-up chewed bubble-gum off the pavement of AT&T cellular store parking-lots wearing a sandwich board.

i dont pay taxes.
i refused ten years ago and have stuck with that path.
and its been sunshine and rainbows ever since....
ok..not really.my income is severely crippled due to me not paying taxes BUT goddamn does it make me feel good!

i do not pay taxes not to be a cheap ass but rather to protest a system that is so obviously rigged against me.(and you).

as for american libertarianism.
i will say they have the civil rights down.
i totally agree with their philosophy of personal liberty and right to do whatever you want as long as you aint stepping on another blokes shoes.

but when they start with the "free market" sermons i start to look at them as wide-eyed and innocent children.
do they not SEE whats going on?
free market?
what is this free market you speak of?
america is NOT a free market.
it is corporate socialism.
or welfare if you want to troll a bit.

go ahead and de-regulate corporate america.
see what happens.
better yet,just look at some african nations,or former soviet states.
guilded estates with private armies for the uber-wealthy and elite while the majority of the population live in either indentured servitude or total squalor.

i am noticing a disturbing trend here in america.its like they are preparing.
we have a government bought and paid for by corporate america,which does the corporations bidding.
the co-opting of the tea party and the crushing of occupy.
a massive surveillance operation.
militarized police forces across the country.
civil liberties made into mere "suggestions" and no longer inalienable.
executions of american citizens with no due process (bye bye habeas corpus).
a standing army that has been in place for over 60 years and a war on terror that will never end.

it is madness.

so i cannot blame my libertarian friends for calling for smaller government.
because the government has become TOO big and no longer is "for the people,by the people".
it serves its corporate masters.
which is why the "de-regulate" argument truly baffles me.

just as my liberal friends who wish to use the system to correct these imbalances.
what?
the system is utterly BROKEN.
we no longer have a functioning democracy!
why would you even suggest to use a system that threw us all overboard to lick the boots of their masters 30 yrs ago?
the mind..it boggles.

every political philosophy has its flaws.none are perfect.
libertarianism has some very good points while others are a bit...naive in my opinion.

for me the end result is this:
i do not trust power nor authority because i find them to be illegitimate until they prove themselves otherwise.
so i am suspicious when someone tries to force their authority on me based on arbitrary and subjective parameters.(like a cop,or judge or some rich dude).

i am a humanist by nature so my political philosophy flows from that birthplace.
i will never step on you to further my career nor take food out of your mouth.
corporate america has spread a propaganda campaign that is insidious.

capitalism is good.
greed is good.
dog eat dog world out there.
here,buy this,it will make you feel better.
wear that and you will be sexy.
you are lone wolf,against the world,drive this car you lone wolf and be a rebel.

its all bullshit.
human beings feel better when they are co-operating.
when they feel their life has purpose and that they are needed.
not by living in a perpetual 7 yr olds wet dream.

oh
my
god.
you fuckers got me ranting!
i hate you both......
/drops mic

@renatojj-There's a fatal flaw in your argument-You assume that there are equitable rules that govern which corporate entities may enjoy a seat at the big-boy's table and those slated for consumption.
Systemic corruption to the point of excising a cancer in hopes of saving the patient would be more relevant an analogy. These huge entities who have cultivated and maintained their empires through placement of representatives, presidents, and lawmakers, and the propaganda through marketing and mind control have structured a system which consolidates their collective power and further entrenches their sustainability.

This machine appears to have effectively influenced your world view enough to play spokesperson for the criminal elite and ensure another 1000 years of indentured servitude for the bulk of the earth's inhabitants.

In other words my friend, your condition appears to be terminal.