First of all, it wasn't discrimination. He didn't refuse to serve them because they are gay. He refused to make them a gay wedding cake. Little bit of a difference there. The nastiness that comes out of people when they think they have an excuse to attack Christians is the real story. Immediately after the chick-fil-a controversy you had so much vile filth posted in comments and message boards, even celebrity tweets, viciously maligning Christians. That's just fine with people, but it's not okay that a man will only bake heterosexual wedding cakes. It's a hypocritical double-standard.



>> ^Yogi:

>> ^shinyblurry:
In the name of tolerance, people are coming out of the woodwork to bash Christian businesses like Chick-fil-a on the basis of their beliefs about homosexuality being a sin. A lot of these are setups; the gay community gets wind of a Christian business who has strong convictions, and then they send someone in to get refused so they can go to the media and create a bunch of hype and drama and generate sympathy. In the end, the hatred and intolerance seems to be entirely one sided. Christians don't hate gays; Jesus died as much for them as He did for the rest of us. Christians who do hate gays are simply ignorant and wrong and they should be chastised. That doesn't mean you should indict Christianity as a whole, because true Christians recognize that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
>> ^UsesProzac:
Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert


Rosa Parks was a set up as well. So would me saying right now, "So you're against Rosa Park's fight for equality you fucking racist." Either it's right or it's wrong, discrimination is wrong doesn't matter what tool you use to shine a light on it, just that it's represented fairly. Chick fil A was a situation where the president said that shit himself, that's not a set up, that's putting your face out their and people bitch slapping the shit out of you.

>> ^shinyblurry:

In the name of tolerance, people are coming out of the woodwork to bash Christian businesses like Chick-fil-a on the basis of their beliefs about homosexuality being a sin. A lot of these are setups; the gay community gets wind of a Christian business who has strong convictions, and then they send someone in to get refused so they can go to the media and create a bunch of hype and drama and generate sympathy. In the end, the hatred and intolerance seems to be entirely one sided. Christians don't hate gays; Jesus died as much for them as He did for the rest of us. Christians who do hate gays are simply ignorant and wrong and they should be chastised. That doesn't mean you should indict Christianity as a whole, because true Christians recognize that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
>> ^UsesProzac:
Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert



Rosa Parks was a set up as well. So would me saying right now, "So you're against Rosa Park's fight for equality you fucking racist." Either it's right or it's wrong, discrimination is wrong doesn't matter what tool you use to shine a light on it, just that it's represented fairly. Chick fil A was a situation where the president said that shit himself, that's not a set up, that's putting your face out their and people bitch slapping the shit out of you.

Just because he didn't say hate doesn't mean it isn't in him. To act like that, to willfully turn away a customer because you look down upon them and their lifestyle? That's bigotry, intolerance of another. Especially in light of the bible explicitly saying not to judge others.

Terrorism, really? You're silly.

"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"

I bring this up because I feel that servicing a customer is part of operating inside of society and being an obedient and humble person, just as your religious text wants you to be.

Wielding judgement is for your god alone.

>> ^deedub81:

" I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others."
Using the same hyperbole that you do, I can paint all non-religious people with as broad a brush by saying "I don't understand why all non-religious people are violent terrorists and threaten hard working families with death threats."
I'm religious and I wouldn't deny business to somebody for being gay just like you didn't (and wouldn't) call in a death threat to this guy.
>> ^UsesProzac:
Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert

" I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others."

Using the same hyperbole that you do, I can paint all non-religious people with as broad a brush by saying "I don't understand why all non-religious people are violent terrorists and threaten hard working families with death threats."

I'm religious and I wouldn't deny business to somebody for being gay just like you didn't (and wouldn't) call in a death threat to this guy.
>> ^UsesProzac:

Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert

If I do something or say something wrong to a person, I ask forgiveness from both my God and the person I did it to, as I did with you. The great commandments are to love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your mind, and all of your strength, and also, to love thy neighbor as yourself. I think a Christian who does something wrong should do what is reasonable to reconcile with people who they have wronged.

As far as the cake goes, the man didn't refuse service because the men were gay. He was more than happy to make them a cake, just not a gay wedding cake. I don't see how you're inserting the word hatred into the discussion. The man has a sincere conviction that gay marriage is wrong and he doesn't want to participate in it. The question really being posed is, is this unchristian not to make this cake?

For one, Jesus didn't tell us not to judge, He told us not to judge hypocritically. That is what is meant by the log in someones eye versus the splinter in the other. Christians are to judge all things to see if they line up to the word of God. Now, would you think it is wrong for a Pastor to refuse to perform a same-sex marriage ceremony? I don't think you could say it was unchristian for the Pastor to refuse to do it, on the basis of his moral conviction. Well, this baker also had a moral conviction about supplying the cake for the ceremony. His conviction is to make wedding cakes for heterosexual weddings only because he believes gay marriage is immoral. I really don't see anything wrong with this; it isn't loving your neighbor to help someone along in their sin. Neither do I think he should be forced to violate his conscience by lending his reputation to something he knows God disapproves of.

In the name of tolerance, people are coming out of the woodwork to bash Christian businesses like Chick-fil-a on the basis of their beliefs about homosexuality being a sin. A lot of these are setups; the gay community gets wind of a Christian business who has strong convictions, and then they send someone in to get refused so they can go to the media and create a bunch of hype and drama and generate sympathy. In the end, the hatred and intolerance seems to be entirely one sided. Christians don't hate gays; Jesus died as much for them as He did for the rest of us. Christians who do hate gays are simply ignorant and wrong and they should be chastised. That doesn't mean you should indict Christianity as a whole, because true Christians recognize that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

>> ^UsesProzac:

Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert

Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?

@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?

Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.

“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert

-
>> ^shuac:

>> ^shinyblurry:
I think taint said it pretty well, the hypocrisy which is veritably oozing from your post, so I won't pile on to that.
What I will say is that all authority belongs to Jesus Christ, and since you do not belong to Him, you have no authority what so ever. You told me that you "counsel" Christians who are in a "crisis of faith". Considering your very public anti-christian stance, and the things you have told me, it's not hard to imagine the kind of "advice" you have to offer someone who is vulnerable in their faith. What kind of ideas you insinuate into their lives.
Your error is that you believe you can do it your way, and you have bought into that selfish trap hook, line and sinker. You rail against the bible, why? Because it says you're wrong. Scripture says that you have bought the lie and fallen into delusion. Why? Because you think you can be like God, just like Eve did. It is the oldest lie that there is. What you call theosophy is described in Revelation 2:24. You cannot know God except through Jesus Christ, period, end of story. You beg borrow and steal from His wisdom to try to make an end run around Him, but you will never know God until you submit yourself entirely to His will. He is the Creator, and He has commanded you to repent and believe the gospel.
>> ^enoch

Your taint speaks to you know? What does it say?
"What's that awful smell?"
Seriously, enoch pretty much smacked you down hard with all those citations. Thass gotta sting!

>> ^shinyblurry:

I think taint said it pretty well, the hypocrisy which is veritably oozing from your post, so I won't pile on to that.
What I will say is that all authority belongs to Jesus Christ, and since you do not belong to Him, you have no authority what so ever. You told me that you "counsel" Christians who are in a "crisis of faith". Considering your very public anti-christian stance, and the things you have told me, it's not hard to imagine the kind of "advice" you have to offer someone who is vulnerable in their faith. What kind of ideas you insinuate into their lives.
Your error is that you believe you can do it your way, and you have bought into that selfish trap hook, line and sinker. You rail against the bible, why? Because it says you're wrong. Scripture says that you have bought the lie and fallen into delusion. Why? Because you think you can be like God, just like Eve did. It is the oldest lie that there is. What you call theosophy is described in Revelation 2:24. You cannot know God except through Jesus Christ, period, end of story. You beg borrow and steal from His wisdom to try to make an end run around Him, but you will never know God until you submit yourself entirely to His will. He is the Creator, and He has commanded you to repent and believe the gospel.
>> ^enoch


Your taint speaks to you now? What does it say?

"What's that awful smell?"

Seriously, enoch pretty much smacked you down hard with all those citations. Thass gotta sting!

@shinyblurry
you have it backwards.
my authority derives from the creator,YOU on the other hand derive your authority from a book.

and please stop deluding yourself into thinking you have any idea who i am.
because you dont.
and to insinuate i have turned people from christ when i have specifically told you details to the contrary is just vulgar.

what saddens me the most is that your unquestioning,slack-jawed adherence to a flawed document will keep you in a perpetual state of spiritual childhood.

the gospels were meant to free you,not enslave you to a book.
but a slave you have become and you defend that tiny prison you live in like a child who only wishes to remain sleeping and dreaming of deliverance.

any information that may be perceived as contrary to your theosophy will have you scouring the apologist pages for a retort.you become copy-paste happy in order to refute any contrary information in regards to the BOOK you hold in your hand.

are you totally unaware of your OWN motivations?
this is a secular site.the majority here are atheists and/or agnostics.
many of them former christians of one flavor or another and some even from fundamentalist families.so they have become quite adept at communicating the flaws they have found in biblical text.

do you think they do this JUST to annoy you?
did it ever occur to you that maybe..just maybe..many here are actually just sharing the very information that changed their minds concerning religion,god and their place in the universe?
and have you noticed how you treat them?
with arrogance and condescension.
the irony being that you will throw a fit if someone treats you in such a manner yet ignore when you,yourself,partake in such bad manners.
it is the height of hypocrisy.

you have made many ignore lists due to your inability to self regulate.Kceaton being the most recent.which is a shame because he is a righteous dude who has the courage to speak from the heart and has often attempted to speak to you with open-ness and honesty.
many here have and you have responded with arrogance,condescension and a self=righteousness that is annoying as it is petty and small.

and all this because you got your authority from a book.
that somehow you have gleaned the mysteries of the cosmos and people who do not garner their understandings from the same,tangible and physical BOOK are somehow automatically wrong.

you are not perfect.
your understandings are flawed.
your arguments are watered-down copy-pasted weak sauce and the majority of the time not even your own.
you are a child who needs to grow up.

and if you ever even suggest that i turn people from christ again,you will be on my ignore list as well.i tire of dealing with your passive aggressive nature.
it has become dull and boring.
grow up shiny.

(sorry for the lengthy rant everybody, but seeing shiny insinuate that i have turned people from christ just set me off)

>> ^hpqp:

@shinyblurry (and @Morganth), you might be surprised to hear this from me, but I am all for having chaplains (of all faiths) in the military that soldiers of faith can go to. I don't think they provide the same help professional psychiatrists could but it's probably better than nothing. The way the US abandons its troops to the psychological trauma they face is truly outrageous; so far we seem to be in agreement.
But as @enoch pointed out, the point of this video is to call out the sly, cowardly tactics of evangelical missionaries in the army who take advantage of the traumatizing nature of war to bully people into belief when they are at their most vulnerable. It's a bit like stuffing fearful stories about eternal torture into the heads of small children (oh wait...).


I agree on the point that no one should use psychological manipulation to try to bring someone to Christ. It will only result in a false conversion, save the Lords grace. They believe they are doing a good thing, but the goal isn't numbers. We preach the gospel, but God is the one who changes the heart. Without a change of heart, there is no real change of mind. That said, it is the truth that man is a stubborn creature who, when things are going well, thinks nothing about God. It's only when things take a turn that he realizes his need for God. Man is naturally rebellious against God, and that is just the reality of his nature. Many people need to hit rock bottom before they will change, and God will bring them there if He has to.

>> ^enoch:

oh fuck you @shinyblurry.
your post is pure troll.
there is no defense to "get em while they are weak".
and your sarcasm is just vulgar and disgusting.
or maybe you were intentionally insinuating that jesus wishes for an army to maim,murder and torture.
is that it shiny?
the thought of an army of god killing in the name of jesus make you sweaty and in need of a wee bit of "alone time"?
i bet you didnt serve one day in the military.
people like you never do.
too weak and cowardly to put your own life on the line.
jesus would never approve of such tactics as this,but people like you sure would.
why?
weak and cowardly.


You missed my point, entirely. HPQP had the audacity to call people using the military to spread the gospel "very disturbing", emphasizing that people should get together and stop this "outrage", as if this is what we should be concerned about regarding our soldiers. It's just another pet issue for atheists, who are actually advocating that we take away what helps soldiers endure and overcome the horrors that they are ordered to carry out on a daily basis. I think that is completely callous, wrong-headed, and in the context of the real problems with the miltary, ludicrously out of touch with reality.

Hey Adam,

Thank you for sharing your background with me, and for your kind-hearted attitude. I haven't taken any offense to what you've said. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

I'll relate some of my background to you first of all. I grew up in a secular home, and there wasn't any talk of religion in my household, for or against. There was a bible in my house, and although I attempted to read it as a child, I didn't get past the "begats" in Genesis. I thought that perhaps that was the entire rest of the book. I grew up knowing nothing much about religion, and so I was agnostic by default.

It wasn't until a bit later in life that I received revelation that there is a God. At the time, I had started to ponder what the truth actually was. I started to search for it, because I felt that the love was slowly draining out of this world, that things were going really wrong, and it got to the point where I felt personally convicted to stand up and do something. What, I had no idea, but more than anything else, I wanted to know the real truth.

It was very shortly after this that I received revelation from God of His existence. Although I wasn't precisely looking for God at the time, I believe that He gave me this revelation because I was searching for the truth. God showed me that He was there, and that He is personally interested and involved in my life, and that He loved me. Needless to say, this was utterly shocking, and as naturalistic materialist, my mind was blown. I found out in a moments time that all that I knew was in some way, wrong. There was no room in my worldview for a Spirit, but God shattered that mold.

He didn't come out and say who He was, though. Instead, He had me investigate all of the various religions, belief systems, philosophies etc that I could..everything from Asatru to Zen Buddhism, and while I was doing this He gave me clues about Himself along the way. What I ended up believing was that none of the worlds religions were correct. I essentially believed that while they all might contain some element of thetruth about God, they were imperfect representations of who He is. I definitely did not believe that Christianity could be the one true faith. I had that picked out from the beginning as something I profoundly disagreed with.

Which is why it was the last religion I investigated. The actual truth was that I didn't know very much about it. I had, like many atheists do, a lot of things picked out of the bible which made me believe I could just dismiss it outright. It turned out though when I actually really read the bible that the understanding I thought I had was incredibly superficial (and self-deceiving). I had tried to read it before, but there was always veil there that prevented me from really understanding it. This time though that veil was taken away and everything became alive to me. The reason for this was that what I was reading was corresponding to those clues that God had given me about Himself that I had mentioned earlier. God had reinforced certain ideas and principles about Himself to me, which didn't really make any sense at the time (and indeed drove me crazy trying to figure out what He meant), but suddenly the meaning was unlocked and made crystal clear through what I was reading in scripture.

Because of that, I started to develop a simple faith in what I was reading. On that basis I put some faith in the bible as being at least potentially accurate, and I decided to give my life to Jesus Christ. That's when God showed me that is who He is. When I gave my heart over to Him, He supernaturally transformed me, and He gave me a new life free of anxiety, addiction and depression. He exchanged those things for peace and love and joy. Where there was darkness before, He had brought light.

So, that's my testimony. When you ask why didn't God reveal Himself to you at that time, a few things come to mind. The first is that everything is done in His timing. God has a plan, much bigger than our plans, and I believe that there were many things God wanted to show me before He brought me to Christianity. He wanted me to experience what I did so that when I became a Christian, I would be more effective in communicating with others who are seekers like I was. So that I would be able to relate to them better than someone who grew up in the faith could have. It could be the same for you, that God has had many things to teach you, to give a certain ministry to others, and for your own understanding.

Second, although you are a non-believer, you seem to have a genuine desire to know the truth, and to know, if there is a God, who He is, and what He wants from you. I believe God has placed that desire into your heart so that it would lead you to find Him, as He did in mine. I believe that you're asking me this question for a reason, and that reason is that God is reaching out to you. I would suggest to you that you pray to God and invite Him into your life, and ask Him to forgive your sins. Part of the Lords prayer is "Your will be done, your Kingdom come". Tell God, if this is so, that you're willing to surrender your will for His will in your life. I have prayed that God would hear your prayer and lead you to Him. I also recommend that you read the Gospel of John.

You're right, that from your perspective there may be no reason why you should believe one religion is any better than the other. I shared that view for all of the years I was searching. I can give you a lot of good reasons why Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, but only God can change your heart.

What God doesn't expect is that you are going to figure Him out. Only He could reveal the truth to you. What He does do is give you opportunities in life to get closer to Him. They could be, for instance, situations that test your moral fabric. "What does he do when no one else is looking?" "How does he treat people when he has nothing to gain?". It's how you live your life that is proof of what is in your heart, and that is what God is interested in. I think that is what determines how close to Him you will get. What scripture guarantees though, is that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. That you would have the desire to do that is a gift from above.

In regards to your forest question, God speaks to us in many different ways. A person doesn't need language to understand that there is a higher power. In Romans 1:18-21 it speaks to the fact that God gives a general revelation through His creation of His power and Godhead. How could this man learn about who God is? Well, no one is unreachable on this planet. God could lead him out, or lead someone in. He could give the man dreams and visions.

So I hope that is a satisfactory answer. I couldn't tell you precisely why God hasn't reached out to you before, but what I feel is that He is reaching out to you now. The question is, will you answer His call?

God bless you,

Joshua

>> ^PalmliX

i thought that long haired hippie carpenter was * deaded. that salvation mumbo jumbo makes no damn sense. thanks man! >> ^charliem:

>> ^shinyblurry:
>> ^lurgee:
saved from what?>> ^shinyblurry:
I'm sincere in my beliefs, and I do believe the bible is factually accurate. There isn't enough time in the day for me to come on here and pretend that I believe something I do not. I am here because I care about the people here and I pray that you get saved.


Do you understand the gospel? To receive salvation means to be forgiven for your sins and delivered from the consequences thereof.

Didnt the jews kill jesus already? I thought he died for that shit....so no need to worry!

blah blah blah>> ^shinyblurry:

>> ^lurgee:
saved from what?>> ^shinyblurry:
I'm sincere in my beliefs, and I do believe the bible is factually accurate. There isn't enough time in the day for me to come on here and pretend that I believe something I do not. I am here because I care about the people here and I pray that you get saved.


Do you understand the gospel? To receive salvation means to be forgiven for your sins and delivered from the consequences thereof.