I'll second that, yay for Finnish metal!

>> ^blankfist:

Two comments in and you're back to your old games again. Where did I say "all" immigrants will be poor or "all" immigrants will refuse to pay taxes? Notice I mentioned US citizens as well. But you probably missed that while only listening to what you wanted to hear.

Seriously blankie, what's with the hostility? Forgive me for just this once talking like a normal person and saying "all" when I should've said "disproportionately."

I was mostly just asking about whether you thought immigrants were a special class of people with different demographics than the indigenous population, because I don't see the how you link immigration to the solvency of a social safety net unless you presuppose that immigrants are either going to be disproportionately poor, or disproportionately likely to commit some form of fraud (tax or entitlement).

>> ^blankfist:
It's not that "all" immigrants are poor, it's that if you were poor and you realized you could go somewhere and have access to things you'd not normally have access to, then what're the odds of you exploiting that?
It's a numbers game. The more you allow for exploits in a system, the more it'll be exploited. Etc. Same goes with citizenry and citizenry birth. But the real difference, I believe, is that if you are stable in your home country, you're probably less likely to migrate somewhere just for the entitlements. The opposite is probably more likely however if you're not stable. Is that not a reasonable assumption?


So here's the part where I walk on eggshells and gently point out that you do seem to be saying that immigrants will be disproportionately likely to be poor or commit fraud.

You're also tossing in that you think native born citizens will be that way too. If that's the case, then we're back to "so what does immigration have to do with anything?"


Let's say we turned America into a Finnish-style welfare state -- taxes are high, infrastructure is modern and in good repair, our public schools are the best in the world, our health care system is both cost effective and provides quality care, unemployment is low, our budget is in surplus, our unemployment benefits are generous (and have no time limit), and we have a growing private sector with a heavy technology focus.

If we then threw the gates wide open on immigration, I think you're right; most of the people coming here would be poorer than the average American, and at least in the short run, it'd be bad for the government's net fiscal situation -- more people on welfare, without a completely offsetting tax revenue increase.

But over the long run, I think the situation would reverse. The immigrants and their children would get a free, quality education. They'd get first class health care. They'd have access to public transportation, and a healthy jobs market. For the most part, they'd "exploit" the advantages offered to them to bootstrap themselves into a more productive, wealthier, tax-paying lifestyle. In the long run, the state's investments in the human capital of those immigrants would pay dividends that go beyond mere economic growth, it'd also diversify and enrich the culture of their nation, and bring new ideas and different ways of thinking into the shared project of their society.

Which is to say, I don't think immigration poses a fiscal problem for welfare states.

Bigotry on the other hand, that poses a problem for left-wing policies of all kinds. I don't really think that's a strike against the policies of the left though.

Why the France tag? They are Finnish. Also, she needs to work on enunciation, stat.

Thanks for the heads up. I couldn't find a replace embed but found another documentary on Finnish education: http://vimeo.com/25271392 not really the same but still...

In reply to this comment by jimnms:
I was looking for this to send to someone, but it's dead now.

They're not off key - That's the Finnish accent
>> ^nanrod:

What did they win their award for , singing off key?

>> ^grinter:

what is this, and why?

Finnish Jackass, apparently. Well done, boys.

Hetkinen is Finnish for "current" according to google translate.

I thought that knowing what it meant would help.

Silly me.

>> ^Pprt:

Sorry to be the one to tell you that you seem to know even less about the world than you thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Finns#Parliamentary_election_2011
>> ^shuac:
If this were to happen in Finland or something, THEN I'd say "wow wow and double wow." But, to quote the parking garage attendant from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, what country do you think this is?



We'll see how much they'll affect things in the long run. Granted there are some blatant racists in there, and especially in their voters, but at least on surface the party seems to criticize the current way the government handles immigration, rather than trying to outright ban people from entering. Depending on how much and in what ways they want to revise things could either turn out horrible or be the best thing to happen in Finnish politics for a long time. We'll see.

>> ^Pprt:

Sorry to be the one to tell you that you seem to know even less about the world than you thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Finns#Parliamentary_election_2011
>> ^shuac:
If this were to happen in Finland or something, THEN I'd say "wow wow and double wow." But, to quote the parking garage attendant from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, what country do you think this is?



Sorry, where's the part in this article that reports of a Finnish airline pilot refusing service to a pair of Imams? As promised, if it's there (and I merely failed to see it), I'll be the first to say "wow wow and double wow".

Golly, you sure showed me.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Clicky-sticks and Binaca? This is worse than the PC sissycops in Demolition Man.
Get some Tasers.


You know there are still some police forces out there who remember "Serve and protect"...
edit: why am I even mentioning that? There'd be an american Jesus running around for all the chance you'd change your mind.

>> ^blankfist:

>> ^digitalbombdog:
I just don't understand Finnish porn.

See? I'm the opposite; I don't understand unfinnished porn. Yaka-yaka!


Go on then...for the effort.


Plus 1.

>> ^digitalbombdog:

I just don't understand Finnish porn.

See? I'm the opposite; I don't understand unfinnished porn. Yaka-yaka!

I just don't understand Finnish porn.

NP, KP.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
Thank you very much, my Finnish friend!
In reply to this comment by Norsuelefantti:
*promote

Thank you very much, my Finnish friend!
In reply to this comment by Norsuelefantti:
*promote