I've worked retail during my 20's, and some companies/stores are similar to this. Although in my experience the group was never really all that motivated or even happy to be there.

Only retail job I had that treated it's employees like adults was at the Dell Kiosks, they paid well and didn't have us attend terrible meetings like this one.

Did you even read the rest of my post?



Yes, I did, that's why I said "- and for just the kind of reasons you mention." My point was simply that this Apple doesn't come with the kind of stuff that would make me be happy about the extra cost.

but you won't get a Dell or HP workstation much cheaper even without those support options



We seem to. I haven't run numbers, but our normal Dell workstations are around this same class and come in $1500-$1600 (with a service plan, and after discounts). Anyways, I didn't compare this sort of thing initially because it's hard to compare apples to apples - I was just seeing what value there is for a consumer in this Mac Pro. Anyways, as before, I think there's Macs that they price reasonably - and others (like this0 that they're still gouging on because they can (there's segments of their market that are very price insensitive).

>> ^jmzero:

Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example

Well... I can't really compare it to, say, the Dell machines we get at work - and for just the kind of reasons you mention. My company pays a premium to Dell (though not as much as we'd pay for Apple) because Dell will drop-ship us a replacement at our whim and gives us reasonable corporate support.
With an Apple you're pretty much just getting the box at that price as far as I've ever figured (we do have some Macs here at work). And if you just want a box, I think it's fair to compare out the price of pats. That's why I compared it like I did.

Did you even read the rest of my post? No onsite support with replacement options is a HUGE drawback of the Mac Pro, but you won't get a Dell or HP workstation much cheaper even without those support options.

Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example



Well... I can't really compare it to, say, the Dell machines we get at work - and for just the kind of reasons you mention. My company pays a premium to Dell (though not as much as we'd pay for Apple) because Dell will drop-ship us a replacement at our whim and gives us reasonable corporate support.

With an Apple you're pretty much just getting the box at that price as far as I've ever figured (we do have some Macs here at work). And if you just want a box, I think it's fair to compare out the price of parts. That's why I compared it like I did. I mean, yeah, if they were doing some sort of corporate support at that price then it would make more sense.

You're gonna look real funny trying to use that computer without a power supply, keyboard, mouse, cables, fans, heat sink(s), software, etc



Yeah, sure, whatever - there's a couple $100 worth of stuff there (more, depending on how you value the software obviously). But, uh:

install Linux and whatever other free software you want for probably about 20% less.



How do you figure that? Even if I spend $1500 (and by now I've got better components in every single slot), I'm still left with $1000 to, uh, buy Linux. That's about $1000, or 40%. That's significant. And the fact is I'd rather have my current home computer (worth $1200 when I bought it a year ago) than that Mac. You're just not getting much for $2500.

Again, if there's some reason you want a Mac, then GO FOR IT! - but I don't see how you can deny there's a significant price premium, at least on this model (again, there's other Macs that I think have reached reasonable price levels).

>> ^jmzero:

Or you could buy good PCs and see the price is pretty much the same.

Lol @budzos. Mac people have always said this, and it has always been funny. They used to have some magic wiggle room because so many parts were different (different processor, especially) - but that's mostly gone now. OK, so here you can get a quad core Mac Pro for $2499. Let's see what those parts it lists are worth:
Processor: $316 (here's the specific model)
Graphics Card: $109 (here's actually a slightly better model)
6GB of RAM: $100 (good RAM for that premium)
1TB hard disk: $100 (decent hard disk for that)
Motherboard: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Case: $250 (let's get a nice one)
Optical drive: $100
So far we're at $1225. Maybe they've got some Apple magic (whoo! Superdrive!) to make up a couple hundred more dollars - but it's going to take a lot to spend another $1275 (ie. more than double). If you prefer a Mac, go ahead and get one - but pretending they're the same price is silly.
To be clear, I don't hate Apple and some of their products are reasonably priced now. A Macbook Air, for example, has been a good deal for a while and is still much nicer than its competitors. But their hardware has historically been way more expensive, and lots of it still has a significant premium attached.


Oh please - stop it with the DIY PC vs. Mac Pro comparisons, they are just ridiculous.
A HP Z8x0 or a Dell Precision for example - those are the machines you should compare to.
You'll find that they are in the same ballpark.

Price is definitely not something I'd hold against the Mac Pro, that would be stuff like:
- weak expandability (1 PCIe16+2 PCIe4, 4 drive bays, max 64GB RAM),
- lacking features (eg. no SAS or SATA 6G, no USB3.0, weak selection of graphics/GPGPU cards)
- weak support options (no onsite support available at all?! I'm running a business here - do you really expect me to haul my workstation to the Genius Bar when a deadline is imminent?)

Sounds like someone took the policy about exporting technology to other countries a little too literally.

This is the same law that has Dell have a checkbox at checkout stating that you will not export the technology.

>> ^Fade:

Dell and HP are overpriced too. They defo aren't the value proposition. I know, I worked for Dell for 5 years. Made a lot of money ripping uninformed consumers off.


Didn't say they Dell and HP were a better value prop. Said Apple's pricing is not that far out of line to people who are into "high end" PCs, and their luxury rep comes from not servicing the low-end segments that HP and Dell fought over for years (and are still fighting over).

Dell and HP are overpriced too. They defo aren't the value proposition. I know, I worked for Dell for 5 years. Made a lot of money ripping uninformed consumers off.

1. Apple's pricing is not that far out of line when you actually build PCs with high end parts including a nice case etc. the perception that they have luxury pricing mostly comes from their competitors being Dell and HP who sell mostly underpowered PCs to ignorant morons who look at the price tag first.

2. Most of the people who tell me I *need* to get an Apple couldn't tell RAM from a hard disk.

3. Apple's cool factor makes me vomit, and you are a marketing victim gobbling down on Satan's cock if you waste your time telling people to switch to Apple.

Dell said it's a spoof
https://twitter.com/#!/Dell/status/172710758906474496

>> ^spoco2:
I'm sure his name is an anagram.

Toasty Colons

Pretty sure the fat naked old man farting powder might also be a small hint, I dunno though, I'm not an expert.
>> ^spoco2:

Wow, this is quite an involved fake Dell ad.
"Fake? Fake you say? Mufflefffufflefuffle... this can't be Fake SIR!"
Oh, but it has to be.
The site that the Vimeo account links to has no legal text on the site or the source. Dell would never make a site without a ream of legal guff on it. The Tumblr account for Clayton only has pictures going back to last month.
I'm sure his name is an anagram.
The Vimeo video page has nowhere near enough information.
The video shows him having issue using touch gestures, they'd never let that through.
It's pretty nicely done, and will fool a lot of people. But not me sir, no, not me, I'm so very smart

Wow at first I thought it was corporate bullshit beyond satire, then dell being very funny but incredibly cynical about the creative/computing angle.. but I guess it's some angry guy doing an amazing fuck you to both!

Wow, this is quite an involved fake Dell ad.

"Fake? Fake you say? Mufflefffufflefuffle... this can't be Fake SIR!"

Oh, but it has to be.

The site that the Vimeo account links to has no legal text on the site or the source. Dell would never make a site without a ream of legal guff on it. The Tumblr account for Clayton only has pictures going back to last month.

I'm sure his name is an anagram.

The Vimeo video page has nowhere near enough information.

The video shows him having issue using touch gestures, they'd never let that through.

It's pretty nicely done, and will fool a lot of people. But not me sir, no, not me, I'm so very smart

Tags for this video have been changed from 'dell' to 'dell, Clayton Sotos' - edited by Zifnab