Wow, the more you dig the crazier it gets, and I quote:

"America has no president. It has a series of look-alike cloned Bonobo chimpanzees who are 100% remote controlled through magnetic waves. The alleged President is a sophisticated theme park diorama, a walking and talking 9-11. Its controlling force is not democracy but jungle law and demonic possession."

Idiot Savant.

Very interesting. We need to figure out how to teach these guys how to talk. I'd wager it would make an interesting conversation. Would be pretty cool if humans caused a sort of chimpanzee singularity.

Then again, perhaps its their extraordinary ability at tasks like this that also prevent them from learning language. Maybe we should try giving them magic mushrooms?

Looks like chimpazees can beat humans in memory tests has been added as a related post - related requested by PlayhousePals on that post.

How about run a Mormon against Obama? That way, the Christian contingent who regard Mormonism as a cult will vote with their conscience and choose Obama. It will appear as though there is a "choice" while in reality, BOTH of these putties can do the damage intended. If we can dupe the GP for one more election cycle then by the time 2016 rolls around, we predict the voting populous to be completely bat-shit fucking stupid, we can run a fucking chimpanzee and tell em it's a tiny hairy man!!

Ok, I'll bite. I have no issue with the chimpanzees. They are just doing what they do. In the wild they hunt, and they will in captivity given the chance. They also struggle for stimulation in captivity hence the relish with which they approach this situation. It's a game to them, they know no better.

What really irks me about this video is the braying spectators. They way they find it funny that the raccoon is being treated this way. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's OK to take pleasure in the suffering of another animal. They are laughing at an animal being hurt.

The chimps don't understand the situation, but the laughing idiots should. There are funny things in nature and there are horrific things in nature. The chimps are blameless, but that doesn't stop what they're doing from being horrific.

That's what my issue with this video is. By upvoting a video here people are saying 'yes, I enjoyed watching that'. I can't imagine who would enjoy watching this demonstration of the awfulness of people.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^Lowen:
>> ^ChaosEngine:
I don't even know where to start with how wrong that is.

Well, why don't you watch the linked video and then if you still think it's wrong, say why on that videos discussion page.

There's no need to watch the video.
Chimpanzees are not monkeys. Humans are not monkeys.
Chimpanzees and Humans belong to the Hominidae family of the Primate order.
Monkeys belong to the Cercopithecidae family of the Primate order.
We definitely had a common ancestor, but that ancestor was not a monkey or a human.
You might as well claim that since we share a common ancestor with squid, we're squid.


If that's what you believe you should watch the video.

More importantly we shouldn't have this discussion here since it's not really relevant to THIS video anymore, so it should either be moved to our profiles or onto the comments page for the other video.

>> ^Lowen:

>> ^ChaosEngine:
I don't even know where to start with how wrong that is.

Well, why don't you watch the linked video and then if you still think it's wrong, say why on that videos discussion page.


There's no need to watch the video.

Chimpanzees are not monkeys. Humans are not monkeys.
Chimpanzees and Humans belong to the Hominidae family of the Primate order.

Monkeys belong to the Cercopithecidae family of the Primate order.

We definitely had a common ancestor, but that ancestor was not a monkey or a human.

You might as well claim that since we share a common ancestor with squid, we're squid.

>> ^Lowen:

The point the video made was: we share a common ancestor with all monkeys, therefor we are monkeys. It's the same as; we share a common ancestor with all animals/vertebrates/mammals, therefor we are animals, vertebrates and mammals. So if chimpanzees all share a common ancestor with monkeys, then they are monkeys, even if they also share a common ancestor with apes and are therefor also apes.


I don't even know where to start with how wrong that is.

The point the video made was: we share a common ancestor with all monkeys, therefor we are monkeys. It's the same as; we share a common ancestor with all animals/vertebrates/mammals, therefor we are animals, vertebrates and mammals. So if chimpanzees all share a common ancestor with monkeys, then they are monkeys, even if they also share a common ancestor with apes and are therefor also apes.

>> ^Fusionaut:

Having a common ancestor does not mean they are the same. We share a common ancestor with all mammals yet we are not horses or pigs or dolphins or lions or platypuses et cetera...>> ^Lowen:
>> ^gargoyle:
Fact check -- chimpanzees are NOT monkeys.
</em>
False: http://videosift.com/video/Turns-out-we-DID-come-from-monkeys
</em>
</e
m>

Having a common ancestor does not mean they are the same. We share a common ancestor with all mammals yet we are not horses or pigs or dolphins or lions or platypuses et cetera...>> ^Lowen:

>> ^gargoyle:
Fact check -- chimpanzees are NOT monkeys.

False: http://videosift.com/video/Turns-out-we-DID-come-from-monkeys

>> ^gargoyle:

Fact check -- chimpanzees are NOT monkeys.


False: http://videosift.com/video/Turns-out-we-DID-come-from-monkeys

Fact check -- chimpanzees are NOT monkeys.

>> ^legacy0100:

He gives several different examples, one including about the chimpanzees in tight confined space. I find his claims very hard to believe. Chimps get very frustrated and show abnormal, anti-social behavior when they are in a tight confined space for a long period of time. Their hairs fall out, they bite their own knuckles or even each other. They show aggression to inexperienced moms and to their babies. It could be that Dr. de Waal may be omitting some factors in here. The chimps he is referring to may be from a zoo where they are put in small confined space when it's time to goto sleep, but then are let out to a bigger enclosure where they can run and play. This may be a bad example, but we don't really know because he doesn't reveal the source of his data. Perhaps his research did confine the chimps to a tight space all throughout the experiment. If so, then the duration of dwelling in tight enclosure is a big factor, but he didn't cite anything about that either.
Dude, the guy is a primatologist. He studies primates for a living. I think he knows more about primates than you do.


Also, he's talking about "crowded spaces", not solitary confinement.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Very interesting, *quality video and discussion. I would say there is probably some under-reported aggression and violence in Japan- but in general a whole hell of a lot less than anywhere else I have lived. In 3.5 years there- never saw a fight, never saw any violence that I remember - there was one crazy guy who was running around yelling at people - but that's it. Violence by Yakuza does happen, but it seems aggrandised from films. I think Yakuza are mainly loan sharks, brothel owners and black marketeers.

For whatever reason, violence is baked into the US culture - tied in maybe with a rugged frontier individualist spirit. Americans love their guns. My family too. My dad always carried a nickel-plated '38 under his car seat, which he called his "merging assistance device".

>> ^legacy0100:

I would have to partly disagree on this one. I believe high density does attribute to more aggression. Dr. Frans de Waal points out that high density alone does not always lead to aggression, and that there are other factors that attribute to reconciliation and peaceful coexistence. This much I agree with. However, this should not be used to throw away the immense impact over population has on human aggression.
He gives several different examples, one including about the chimpanzees in tight confined space. I find his claims very hard to believe. Chimps get very frustrated and show abnormal, anti-social behavior when they are in a tight confined space for a long period of time. Their hairs fall out, they bite their own knuckles or even each other. They show aggression to inexperienced moms and to their babies. It could be that Dr. de Waal may be omitting some factors in here. The chimps he is referring to may be from a zoo where they are put in small confined space when it's time to goto sleep, but then are let out to a bigger enclosure where they can run and play. This may be a bad example, but we don't really know because he doesn't reveal the source of his data. Perhaps his research did confine the chimps to a tight space all throughout the experiment. If so, then the duration of dwelling in tight enclosure is a big factor, but he didn't cite anything about that either.
I also would like to point out that there's generally a lot less food intake and physical activity in urban Japanese society. Your typical Japanese sushi portions can testify for that, as well as various hikikomori symptoms people suffer in overly populated Japanese cities.
Dr. de Waal says there's less crime in Japan, but this simply isn't true. He is overly reliant on only the statistics reported by the government, and he isn't are of the deep rooted cultural practices that mask these aggressions to the outside world. Dr. De Waal never mentions about the various odd symptoms and personal sacrifice everyone must make in order to maintain the order there. Violence is everyday life in Japanese society, including the fairly well known presence of Yakuza. Japanese people often get bullied by the Yakuza, but they do not report these events because for one, they are afraid of retaliation, and two, Yakuza has deep rooted connections with the government. Yakuza usually do not engage anyone foreign simply because it would get the embassies involved, and they do cannot exert any influence in foreign lands. So they only stick to bullying Japanese people, and stay clear of foreigners. Even in high school physical violence is rampant. Students fight or bully each other all the time, but it is not seen as a crime, but merely 'part of growing up'. Nobody reports anything, so the crime data remains low.
Compare this with cities in Netherlands. It is highly populated, but enjoys abundance of resources thanks to laxed attitude toward drugs and sex, which are themselves ways to alleviate aggression. People in Netherlands are also very mobile because of their well developed transportation infrastructure including extensive bike lanes, roads and trains. They are also in close proximity to larger open areas in Germany or France where they regularly escape to thanks to their abundance in resource, while in Japan people are very much confined to their own living quarters and their workplace, who usually cannot afford to take frequent vacations due to high expectation from bosses as well as fierce competition towards promotion. Imagine regular US/UK office space antics times ten.
Overall I find Dr. de Waal's argument only partially credible and would like to look into his experiments and his citations before acknowledging this as fact.
I remember Dag and his wife saying they used to live in Japan. I would like to hear their opinion about this issue and Japanese society being used as proof to this theory.

I would have to partly disagree on this one. I believe high density does attribute to more aggression. Dr. Frans de Waal points out that high density alone does not always lead to aggression, and that there are other factors that attribute to reconciliation and peaceful coexistence. This much I agree with. However, this should not be used to throw away the immense impact over population has on human aggression.

He gives several different examples, one including about the chimpanzees in tight confined space. I find his claims very hard to believe. Chimps get very frustrated and show abnormal, anti-social behavior when they are in a tight confined space for a long period of time. Their hairs fall out, they bite their own knuckles or even each other. They show aggression to inexperienced moms and to their babies. It could be that Dr. de Waal may be omitting some factors in here. The chimps he is referring to may be from a zoo where they are put in small confined space when it's time to goto sleep, but then are let out to a bigger enclosure where they can run and play. This may be a bad example, but we don't really know because he doesn't reveal the source of his data. Perhaps his research did confine the chimps to a tight space all throughout the experiment. If so, then the duration of dwelling in tight enclosure is a big factor, but he didn't cite anything about that either.

I also would like to point out that there's generally a lot less food intake and physical activity in urban Japanese society. Your typical Japanese sushi portions can testify for that, as well as various hikikomori symptoms people suffer in overly populated Japanese cities.

Dr. de Waal says there's less crime in Japan, but this simply isn't true. He is overly reliant on only the statistics reported by the government, and he isn't are of the deep rooted cultural practices that mask these aggressions to the outside world. Dr. De Waal never mentions about the various odd symptoms and personal sacrifice everyone must make in order to maintain the order there. Violence is everyday life in Japanese society, including the fairly well known presence of Yakuza. Japanese people often get bullied by the Yakuza, but they do not report these events because for one, they are afraid of retaliation, and two, Yakuza has deep rooted connections with the government. Yakuza usually do not engage anyone foreign simply because it would get the embassies involved, and they do cannot exert any influence in foreign lands. So they only stick to bullying Japanese people, and stay clear of foreigners. Even in high school physical violence is rampant. Students fight or bully each other all the time, but it is not seen as a crime, but merely 'part of growing up'. Nobody reports anything, so the crime data remains low.

Compare this with cities in Netherlands. It is highly populated, but enjoys abundance of resources thanks to laxed attitude toward drugs and sex, which are themselves ways to alleviate aggression. People in Netherlands are also very mobile because of their well developed transportation infrastructure including extensive bike lanes, roads and trains. They are also in close proximity to larger open areas in Germany or France where they regularly escape to thanks to their abundance in resource, while in Japan people are very much confined to their own living quarters and their workplace, who usually cannot afford to take frequent vacations due to high expectation from bosses as well as fierce competition towards promotion. Imagine regular US/UK office space antics times ten.

Overall I find Dr. de Waal's argument only partially credible and would like to look into his experiments and his citations before acknowledging this as fact.

I remember Dag and his wife saying they used to live in Japan. I would like to hear their opinion about this issue and Japanese society being used as proof to this theory.