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Is Obamacare Working?

Asmo says...

Any person who believes in or supports a system where you pay far more for a far inferior product is a moron. End of story. People can wave the catchphrases around as much as they like, but that is fucking stupidity. In which case, "socialism" is the opposite of stupidity, even in socialist lite countries like Australia.

My father in law is having 2 femoral bypass surgeries in the next 2 months. Completely free, air conditioned 2 bed room, free medication (oxycodone for the win), free at home post op care visits, very little waiting (isn't an emergency but is urgent enough to not be considered elective). Great surgeons and other staff. Food still sucks (it's a hospital of course), but if that's the worst complaint that can be made about the system that costs 7% less of GDP than the US and freely hands out so very much more, I know what I would choose...

BK33, does your sister receive free or reduced cost care under medicare? If so, the system has worked for her. She can now put those premiums towards other costs, or savings for retirement or w/e she wants to. It might not be optimal, but it's a far sight better than close to 20k a year...

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artician says...

Not the wording: the definition. Exploit does not mean hate, and at no point was I defending misogyny or abuse or hatred of anyone. But this odd definition of exploitation of women being re-labeled as 'hatred' has always struck me as an awkward manipulation of reality. To me, it's akin to redefining being punched in the face as 'rape'. Both things are terrible, but repurposing a worse word to apply to a lesser one is over-exaggerating the situation only to draw attention to the crime.

As for exploiting people, that's just getting into a Freudian psycho-analysis, the nuances of which could honestly make everyone guilty of exploitation just by human nature. But we should bypass that because the subject isn't applicable and is wide and deep enough to spawn a hundred websites just dedicated to just that topic alone, and no one in this tier of human evolution will ever find a conclusion to that conversation.

But this is something different. This is an intentional action to belittle others for the sake of social or personal insecurity. I am entirely against that, but I have to draw the line at blowing things out of proportion for the sake of drawing attention to the issue, especially when it's done on a culturally-wide level, because that makes all of us collectively dumber in the end. I demand progress through honesty.

messenger said:

The wording is your quibble?

Do you exploit people that you respect? That you love? That you consider equals?

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republican party has fallen off the political spectrum

newtboy says...

So, you can't argue against my points, so you change your argument?
You said we are sliding into socialism...I showed you that's wrong and now you say 'sliding to more government' is the same thing. They are not.

You are listening to talking heads. The republicans may promise to 'undo what was done' but in reality they don't do that (they don't really even try, they just try to look like they are, how many 'votes' to 'repeal' the ACA?) but instead increase their control at every turn.

1) Wow! A point we agree on!
2) Um...so you want to say the minimal wall street regulations were 'screwing corporations' and removing them is 'unscrewing them'? Well, lets just leave it at 'I totally disagree' that going back to reasonable rules (rules the republicans removed before, causing the insanity in the market for 25 years) is 'screwing business', it's forcing business to not screw everyone else by fraud.
3) If the government IS in charge of the program (and it is, because states failed miserably to do it themselves) there should be reasonable 'rules' on how to do it. Those 'rules' in this case should be determined by nutritionists, not politicians. Catchup is not a vegetable. It's really just one more swipe at the Obamas for no logical reason in my eyes.
4) It's hilarious that when it's for something you like, you are all pro-federal power to override the states/local laws, but when it's not (like a federal lunch program) they shouldn't be involved.
Socialism and corporatism are the reverse of each other. I should not have to be the one to teach you that.
We disagree as to which party is running faster towards 'oligarchy'. We disagree because you think Faux actually shows NEWS, but they ONLY have propaganda on Faux, not news, not reporting, only editorializing. Those who watch Faux are consistently less informed than those who watch NOTHING. Repeatedly proven fact.

Both parties have failed, so you think we should go for the crazed, farther right splinter party...you know the Naz....oh...sorry...I got confused....teabagger party. They might not all be lynching nuts, but most certainly are. I've seen and talked to them, and walked through rallies. It's not a myth.
Because they were not registered republicans does not make them either democrat or independent, most of them just think the republicans don't go far enough to the right...kind of like a certain German party from the 30's I can mention.

EDIT: I guess since it's OK for the republicans to off hand legislate against the known wishes and vote of the people because they 'control the laws in DC', you would have no problem with Obama using executive powers to bypass congress and to line veto the budget to remove all the superfluous BS the republicans added to it? The president has that power and can executive order and line item veto all day long...but you would be having a fit if he did, no?

bobknight33 said:

As you wrote " As has been mentioned above, you must simply have no idea what socialism is if you think America is even headed in that direction, we're headed the other way buddy" shows your lack of understanding of political systems.

You can 100% government control on 1 side and 0 government power at the other end

At the 100% you would have labels such as Communism
Socialism,Fascism and such. At 0 would be Anarchy


Our government is in the middle but sliding towards more and more government control and morphing into some for of Oligarchy by buying votes via socialist programs promised by the left.
Then the pudendum swing back and the republicans buy votes by promising to "undue" what the left has done.

Either way the people loose because nothing get totally undone. More and more government control ensues.



1 Yes I would like there to be ZERO dollars donations by corporations and people. Since the government owns public airways and grants them via FCC, hence ABC, CBS, NBC etc let these station allot public time for equal debate for ALL parties and persons. TAKE the money out of politics.

2 I do agree what you indicated by the Republicans and did this week was reprehensible. A passing a trillion + bill and and worse the extra "shit" to help banks and such. But to be fair to republicans , Democrats over screw corporations and republicans attempt to unscrew them.

3 school lunches - Government should not be in regulating school lunch- it should be a local thing. Republicans are just undoing Michelle Obama failed school lunch program. Just more finger pointing points for bloggers to use.

4 Federal government controls the laws in DC Its their little kingdom. They can re ban pot all day long.

Generally speaking there are 5 types of government:
Monarchy - rule by one - never truly exits
Oligarchy - ruled by few - most governments today
Democracy- rule by majority - Majority rule is a failed system.
Republic- rule by law - Law limits Government powers
Anarchy - every man for himself- Always short lived due to power vacuum.


You say " America is sliding away from socialism, and into corporatism" Well they are basically neighbors in the political spectrum which would be some form of Oligarchy. Neither necessary serve the people freely.


Both Democrats and Republicans are sliding headlong towards Oligarchy. One party is just trying to get there quicker than the other party.


Both parities have utterly failed its people. There is only 1 party that desires to steer this country back towards a Republic and that is the TEA party. They get stronger and stronger every time their party fail its constituents. Were not all right wing lynching nuts. That's just a myth promoted by left wing media to color you thinking to stay on the Democrat plantation.
Truth of the matter is that four in 10 Tea Party members are either Democrats or Independents. Go to a rally and see for you self.

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