ive been searching for online sources myself. theres a few places you can find excerpts in pdf format but his full essays are hard to find online. but, his books are pretty inexpensive and you can find em at any bookstore, and if you can afford a lil extra there is a collection of his thats around 60 bucks i think that has all of his theological books and another collection that has most of his essays thats around 30 bucks

@shinyblurry, the great divorce is a poignant look at the relationship between the "saved" and "unsaved" in the afterlife. He tells an allegory of a bus ride the residents of hell get to take to heaven where they get to hang out for the day. At the end of the day they can stay if they want but all of em choose to get back on the bus. An interesting look into that choice and what makes them choose instead of just retelling the eternal punishment of a jerkoff god motif

ok.
i have stated this previously and in multiple posts.
lets define "god" for a moment.
and lets accomplish this without any religious influence or overtures...none.
because lets be honest,religion acts like it has the secret key to the hidden doorway.
which i find not only repulsive but dishonest.

lets see if we can agree on a few things.i shall use the monotheistic religions as example because using all 4500 would be..tedious:
1.god implies masculine.this is obviously a falsehood.why would god need sexual organs?
2.we are all made in gods image.again a falsehood.having never seen god how can we know?
3.the bible/q'ran is the written word of god.(i wont include the torah because jews do not make that pronouncement).again this is false,some basic research will reveal this statement to be an utter fallacy.unless of course you are a fundamentalist,and in that case..carry on with your wars of attrition /looking at you fundmantalist christians and muslims).
4.god loves you.unless you break these rules and in that case he has built a special place for you to burn for eternity (varying degrees of understanding here,even fundamentalists struggle with this obvious hypocrisy).conclusion=bullshit.


ok.i am going to stop because i could do this all day.
my basic point is that it is RELIGION that makes the claim that it is THEY who hold the keys to the gate.that only through THEIR understanding could any of lowly humans ever think to have salvation.
religion is man-made with tangible texts,doctrine and dogma and in being so is subject to criticism.as it SHOULD be.
these institutions define god and then attempt to compel through fear and..well..fear..to get people to comply.
in my opinion it is these very institutions which hinder the growth and development of us all as a species.
fundamentalism is the stunting of the spirit and the stagnation of the mind.
none of what i am saying here takes away from the poetry,literature and wisdom from the bible..it is RELIGION which perpetrates that crime.

everybody still with me?
am i making sense?
ok..now lets define god and lets do it in a way that religion will never do because it will make those institutions irrelevant.
(which ironically was the EXACT thing jesus was attempting to do..but i digress)
lets consider "god" an entity with immense consciousness.
let us for a moment imagine this consciousness giving birth to the universe from itself.
what is the first thing to come in to existence besides energy?
time.
and when that happened what else became evident?
everything became relative due to this added dimension.
let that sink in a bit because it has huge implications.
ok..
now if we continue on this thread of thought.this would mean that the universe is literally god.
every molecule.
every atom.
god.
and what if this creator put out only one simple edict for his construct?
create.
thats all.he sets the rules and puts only one line of code=create.
and everything his creations creates is part of him and he..it.
good..evil..arbitrary terms used to relate subjective realities focused from a singular perspective.
the creator does not notice them because all of it is the same to the creator.
WE make those very human definitions.
lets imagine for a second that the universe has a consciousness.one that we may be aware or unaware of,but we know we are an individual.
we have consciousness.
we do NOT know if a plant has a consciousness that we can measure but we may some day.
now if we are a part of this incredible creation called the universe and we have consciousness.this means we are aware of not only ourselves but the universe around us.
this means we experience creation on a daily basis.manifesting in so many dynamic ways:love,loss,anger,violence,wonder,imagination,making love,cheeseburgers with a cold beer etc etc
and in that light would not the creator experience its own creation subjectively through our experiencing his creation?

now this is not a new idea,in fact it is quite old but it does have the quality of not needing any religion,nor doctrine or dogma.
why not?
because in essence YOU are god and god is YOU.
if i had postulated something like this as early as 100 yrs ago i would be burned at the stake.
why? religion.
but this is the basic definition i use when i use the term "god".
it is also the reason why i have no urge to preach or proselytize.
the only thing i try to do is recognize that i do not hold the key nor the answers but i seek them and that is my path.
yours is your own and the only thing i can do is recognize that you are a spiritual being (whether you believe that or not) and respect your choices on how you wish to live.
because..in the end..they are YOUR choices.

now please understand i share this with you not to convince or to invite ridicule but rather to offer a different definition.
to me life is amazing in the very simple act of breathing.
of loving..
and arguing..ah..many thanks for those in my life for the glorious arguments.
this life is precious if only for those simple things.
is there an afterlife?
i believe so,what it looks like i have no idea but i know it wont be THIS life.
so cherish those who you care about because this is one helluva ride,and i am glad you all are here to enjoy it with me.

for those of you still here.
thanks for coming to the show!
dont forget to tip your bartenders and waitresses!
and thank YOU BRM for taking the time to discuss things of this nature with me.

>> ^shinyblurry:

God let them know it was wrong to disobey Him by outlining the consequences if they did. They chose to believe the lie instead, and lusted after Gods power. Thus they sinned and became spiritually seperated from God. The perfect cannot be joined with the imperfect.
The whole point of our lives is to love God (and eachother) and live with Him forever in paradise. That's why He created Adam and Eve in the first place. Man sinned and fell, became seperated from God, and became mortal and lost their place with God.
Your argument is that it is immoral. Well how can you judge God? No sinner could and I include myself in that. How could an immoral being judge a moral one? It's only your excuse for not doing what He told us to do. God is Holy, but you have believed the lie that He isn't. You are choosing death over life, because that is all sin is. The soul that sins is the soul that dies, but Gods gift is eternal life.
In regard to the unforgivable sin, the reason it is unforgivable is because when you become a Christian you receive Gods Spirit. His Spirit is what transforms us, makes us a new creation. If you reject His Spirit, you cannot be transformed, so therefore you cannot be forgiven.
Everyone who has taken the so-called blasphemy challenge just to please their inner demons of being completely dead to Christ are mistaken. None of them have done anything unforgivable and can all still be saved.


I've never understood how christians can think this. Surely if God is omniscient he would know exactly what all his creations would do before he created them, so it was God who started the cycle of sadistic punishment that is life (and death if you believe in Hell and the afterlife). How can he be all loving if he knowingly started this cycle? So your god is either not omniscient or not all loving, take your pick.

Hope is an a positive position of bias. There is no certainty that unknown things will end up satisfying hopes. Bias is irrational. Being agnostic to uncertainty is the logical/reasonable stance to the unknown or unknowable. So hope, the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best, is irrational.

>> ^IAmTheBlurr:

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
>> ^Gallowflak:
Pavlov's dogs were trained to salivate because a certain sensory experience was always, every time, followed by them being fed, so it was a reasonable observation and reaction. Superstition is the irrational connection of an actual or potential effect and an imagined cause, which then governs future behaviour.

Hope is irrational as well. There are many cases for irrationality, rationally speaking of course, err wait.

Do you actually think that is true; that hope is irrational? I would contend that, depending on the statistical probability of the outcome that you are hopeful for, hope is almost a default position because no one can entirely know what the future holds, so in that way, there always is hope.
I would also contend that individual hopes might be irrational, but not hope as a concept itself.
Just wanted to clarify what you meant. Obviously the hope that I'll see my dead mother again in an afterlife is an irrational hope but is the hope that I'll get the promotion that I applied for also/equally irrational?

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

>> ^Gallowflak:
Pavlov's dogs were trained to salivate because a certain sensory experience was always, every time, followed by them being fed, so it was a reasonable observation and reaction. Superstition is the irrational connection of an actual or potential effect and an imagined cause, which then governs future behaviour.

Hope is irrational as well. There are many cases for irrationality, rationally speaking of course, err wait.


Do you actually think that is true; that hope is irrational? I would contend that, depending on the statistical probability of the outcome that you are hopeful for, hope is almost a default position because no one can entirely know what the future holds, so in that way, there always is hope.

I would also contend that individual hopes might be irrational, but not hope as a concept itself.

Just wanted to clarify what you meant. Obviously the hope that I'll see my dead mother again in an afterlife is an irrational hope but is the hope that I'll get the promotion that I applied for also/equally irrational?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'afterlife, chance, eternity, angels' to 'afterlife, chance, eternity, angels, sod off' - edited by ponceleon

You forgot about

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_culture#Afterlife

No I didn't. Klingon belief is that the first Klingons killed the Gods who created them and essentially took their place. Klingons believe in a heaven (Sto'Vo'Kor) and Hell (Gre'Thor) which is presided over by Khaless (God) and a devil (Fek'Ihr). They follow a moral system based on combat and honor which rewards proper behavior, and punishes what is considered negative behavior.

Were the ancient Greeks "Atheists"? Their belief system also involved the death of their primary origination God (Cronos). But just because that god died didn't mean the Greek theology was gone. It just took on a different aspect. Same with the Kingons who replaced their origination god with Kortar or Khaless or whatever. Worf is not an atheist. He has a very specific religion, which he believes in strongly.

He caught the rainbow AND the wave -- two catch phrases in one disaster video. There's an achievement in the afterlife awaiting him for that one. Kickass.

"God's justice" includes stoning people for a variety of offenses including a woman not being a virgin on her wedding night, and disobeying your parents; very specific rules on how to take, keep and treat slaves; supposedly wiping out nearly every creature on Earth; and condemning all of humanity for sin in the first place. No, I don't want God's justice, thank you very much.

You, like many Christians, seem to have this misguided idea that all atheists want to do is have hedonistic orgies and go on Christian killing sprees, when in fact atheists are usually the ones that understand that, in reality, we only have one short life and we must all work together as a species on this tiny, fragile, blue spaceship, whizzing alone through the cosmos with nothing else around us for light-years. It's the religious fantasy of an afterlife and the proper way to get to the proper afterlife that keeps everyone segregated into factions, with everybody at each other's throats.
>> ^shinyblurry:

They want Gods justice but not His punishment.

>> ^shinyblurry:

Anyone who thinks they have figured it out hasn't thought about it too deeply.

I'm pretty sure Hitchens would agree with you on that point. People who claim to know exactly what the afterlife is like are given a free pass while those who claim it can't be known are labeled heretics and sinners.

>> ^shinyblurry:

God will get the last word on this one.

Which god?

That would be my problem if I were dying. Even if I became convinced there were an afterlife I'd have the hardest time figuring out which one it is. Most gods seem fairly confident in their own existence.

>> ^MaxWilder:

I'd love to know where these clips came from. We don't get enough of these full talks.

Seconded!

Your video, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris - The Afterlife Party, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

would love to see further episodes detailing his adventures on breaking out all the afterlifes to get back to Valhalla

I believe because it brings me comfort. Praying makes me feel good and connected to something beyond myself. That's all I need. We really don't know if there is a "Soul" or not, or where a "Soul" goes after the body has passed. Faith and belief get me through each day with the idea that the daily struggle, if not rewarded in life, is rewarded in the afterlife. I think that precludes a religion, and a religion is just a matter of choice. I think their issue is more organized religion, especially some of the born again Christian groups which drive me crazy in their zealous righteousness. I think you can have faith and belief without excluding and without judging. If God and Jesus can accept and love a prostitute, then why the hell can't a Christian love a gay man or an atheist?
I have total respect to all and any beliefs or the lack there of. But I can not tolerate ignorance and closed mindedness.