The issue with nationalized health care is the simple, inescapable fact that the federal government is INCAPABLE of improving the problems we face. It isn't selfish to impartially look at our government's track record of entitlement spending & coolly conclude that a federal program would fail miserably and therefore should not be attempted.

At the absolute best, the equation would be a wash where care, costs, & coverage are no better after federalization than they were before. But the CBO said Obama's plan would not result in any savings. If it isn't going to 'cover' more people, and isn't going to reduce costs in any appreciable way - then WHY should we turn that much power over to a government that has historically PROVEN that it cannot be trusted with it and 99 times out of 100 will make the problems even worse?

All you guys saying, "Well - everyone else is doing it!" are being silly. Neolibs like to say they're logical and fair, right? Then implement a SMALL pilot program in a select few areas. Compare the results on a cost to cost basis with other options. Slow down. Take your time. Test the options. The only reason for undue haste is the political desire to pass a BAD plan with as little debate, thought, and consideration as possible. That's the tactic of a vapid, pithless, intellectually bankrupt fool. Isn't that what you accused Bush of for so many years? But now it's OK because Obama said it? Pathetic.

Delayed care is denied care. 45 million are currently 'uninsured'? Yeah, under the federal plan I deem OVER 45 million would be denied regular care for their current medical needs on the auspice that Obama and his cronies think you don't 'need' that care. When you hear what Obama and his thugs are saying about how they'd 'regulate' who gets what medical care, it is downright Orwellian and scary. Regardless of who is in power, the federal government CANNOT and SHOULD NEVER be trusted with that kind of power. Do you want to wake up next election with a Dick Cheney run cabinet in charge of whether or not you get medical care? Wake up people! Federal health care is a terrible idea. The right solution is medical savings accounts or some other plan that takes the government OUT of the picture.

Thanks buddy!

In reply to this comment by lavoll:
water treatment. what else can we call it. wetted the prisoners. watered them. gave them water. i think i will have to go
"we used water to rinse out the dirty inforomation from the terrorists".

and *promote orwellianisms

water treatment. what else can we call it. wetted the prisoners. watered them. gave them water. i think i will have to go with "we used water to rinse out the dirty information from the terrorists".

and *promote orwellianisms

>> ^quantumushroom:
Unarmed population = serfs.
If the already-Orwellian British government decided tomorrow to cart loads of people off to reeducation camps, who could stop them?

Meanwhile...

"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto - Fleet Admiral and Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during WW2


Yes, yes.. you're an idiot, we all get it. Stop rubbing it in.

Unarmed population = serfs.

If the already-Orwellian British government decided tomorrow to cart loads of people off to reeducation camps, who could stop them?


Meanwhile...


"Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto - Fleet Admiral and Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during WW2

(OAYSYB) Only after you shave your butthole.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
Oh I know, I know. But still, it's pretty damn cool.

Wanna cornhole?

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Nah. I like the Orwellian Floyd hammers. That, and the channel is not just specific to America's authoritarian police state.

But thanks for being gay.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
BTW, I dig your new av. Maybe you should use it as the logo for the Fear channel. For real.

Oh I know, I know. But still, it's pretty damn cool.

Wanna cornhole?

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Nah. I like the Orwellian Floyd hammers. That, and the channel is not just specific to America's authoritarian police state.

But thanks for being gay.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
BTW, I dig your new av. Maybe you should use it as the logo for the Fear channel. For real.

Nah. I like the Orwellian Floyd hammers. That, and the channel is not just specific to America's authoritarian police state.

But thanks for being gay.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
BTW, I dig your new av. Maybe you should use it as the logo for the Fear channel. For real.

The "War on Terror" is about as Orwellian as a phrase can get.

It's modern-day newspeak for unending war.

The UK is getting scarier by the day. With the amount of CCTV and some of their Orwellian laws concerning photography and videography, they're lightyears ahead of us yanks when it comes to a police-state system.

So sad too, as England is somewhere I love.

Here's Ron Paul's words:

"I don't think all the answers are in"

"I think there's justified concern"



So, he supports the idea that maybe something is there, and he appears on Beck's TV show to talk about this, and this is not him promoting this idea?

And let me know if I'm wrong, but during Katrina, wasn't FEMA the group who was the least effective as opposed to the most Orwellian? And how does appointing the head of the Arabian horse association somehow dictate the principles of FEMA?

If you remember, it was the Air Nat'l Guard who were allegedly confiscating weapons, and locking down city sectors, not FEMA. Then Bush's FEMA led by the exact-opposite person who should have been in charge, horribly failed, and you want to not blame Bush's retarded appointment and completely absent response plan, but some secret dark forces that FEMA operates under? That's why Katrina sucked?


Sorry, but this FEMA concentration-camp conspiracy has been debunked for almost twenty years, and don't you think that an elected official --one who many regard as incredibly intelligent-- should know this, as opposed to me, some ordinary internet loser?

Wait, what?

I just don't see how the idea of giving people a fair share of the pie is some kind of Orwellian dystopia.

I don't see how it's okay for a handful of people to have more wealth and economic control than hundreds of millions of other people combined.

I think it's cowardice to pretend that this is the natural order of things.

"What Are 13% of Americans Afraid of?"

Either British dentistry, or the Orwellian surveillance state that the UK has become.


"What the hell have you done in the near half-century since then to justify your unbridled and grating arrogance?"

Forgetting any other of a myriad things, I'll go with Mars Rover and designer drugs.

Of course, once the media left the room he said:

Now that those parasites from the media are out of the room, let me introduce myself properly. I am to be refered to as Chairman Hussein, and you will all kneel before me. Your pathetic little states will surrender all your privately owned firearms, all of your young, able bodied men for my army, and women for my harem, and every trace of recoverable cash, precious metals, and gems. From this day forward, Islam will be the official religion of the United States. Those who do not comply will be purged. There is no longer a free market -- you should all have copies of my 5 year plan on your desks. All who question my orders will be put to immediate and painful death. You will carry these proclamations to your people.

Or at least, that's what I assume our resident crackpots think happened next.

People seriously need to update their conservative talking points around here. The new party line is to say "surprise liberals, Obama's really a conservative!" and then do a victory lap like they didn't just lose in a landslide.

I know it's an almost Orwellian reversal of talking points, but if you've been mainlining Republican talking points for the last decade, you should be used to that by now.

>> ^MINK:
@notarobot: Blair is Catholic, it was kind of a big deal.
@dannym: "protests outside parliament were probably banned around the time terrorism was stepped up and people started crashing planes into buildings" ...
sorry danny, before saying things like "probably" you could just, you know, google, and find out "actually" that protests were banned outside parliament for only one reason, and that is Brian Haw kept insisting on telling the truth about serious war crimes, every day, in parliament square. They made an orwellian exclusion zone, after several failed attempts to remove him.
Also, it is very easy to block traffic in parliament square, I know, because I did it on the day they "debated" whether or not to go to war in Iraq. Kinda embarassing for them.
You could at least explain to me how banning protest makes London any safer from terrorist attack.
@Kerotan: wow, well done, americans are "way more exciting" than the reserved british, who i have only seen go mental for tony blair, princess diana, and soccer. But regardless of the amount of tickertape thrown around, the situation was very similar, years of supposedly "conservative" bungling, followed by a fresh new face promising "change"... people gave him a landslide.


Wow, well done for sounding like a patronising arsehole, it was difficult, but you managed it, here have a gold star you good boy! I'm well aware of the perceived British reserve, but even so I can't agree that it was that bigger deal (And I think how big the deal is important too), yes Tony Blair was a staunch catholic, but in the same way Obama might be secretly gay in a shame marriage, the point being that Blair took great care not talk about religion and politics in the same sentence, its not like we elected the pope to be PM.

On most of your other points I agree with you, it was a landslide victory and yes the situation was very similar but I don't exactly equatable to Obama's win, even if I was an American living the UK, I don't it would have been possible for me to get any more excited than I was at the time, which to be frank wasn't much.