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Atheist in the Bible Belt outs herself because she is MORAL
shinyblurry says...Do we have to abide by the old testament or not?
We are not under law, but grace. What we follow is the law of Christ. He reiterated many of the moral laws such as the 10 commandments but as far as the civil and ceremonial laws of Israel, those were done away with at the cross.
Because either Jesus evolved the law into something more moderate, or he was the embodiment of the earlier law.
It's one or the other.
The revelation of God is progressive. The Old Covenant was for the Jews only, whereas the New Covenant is for the whole world. The law of Moses was based on the light of revelation the Jews had about God at the time, and Jesus brought a greater revelation of God and thus a fuller picture of the law and its purpose. The law was initially given because Israel refused to enter into the original covenant God had planned for them, which was very similiar to the covenant Jesus made with the whole Earth. Jesus was essentially restoring what should been instituted from the very beginning.
If it's as you suggest, then Christians need to shut the fuck up about homosexuality and all the other bits of the old testament that they selectively cling to in order to back up their own prejudices.
Or.... Jesus was actually not the super nice guy he's made out to be.
Homosexuality is condemned in the New Testament as well as the Old. There is no need to refer to the OT to show that homosexuality is a sin. There is really no reason to refer to the OT for any particular law we should follow because it is all covered in the NT. In any case, Christians should love homosexuals just as they should love every other person. If they are prejudiced towards any person for any reason they are sinning just as equally as the one they are condemning. That is what Jesus taught us to do, which is to love even our enemies.
Meh, either way he continues to be utterly irrelevant.
http://www.amazon.com/Book-that-Made-Your-World/dp/1595555455/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369294429&sr=8-1&keywords=the+book+that+made+your+world
A very large part of the comfortable western civilization we live in and the freedoms we enjoy came directly from what Jesus taught and did. No one, regardless of what you think about who He is, has ever impacted the world in a more positive or powerful way than He did. To say He is irrelevant is to be in the dark about a large part of the history of the world we live in, and how that history shapes it today.
Ok, so which is it?
Do we have to abide by the old testament or not?
Because either Jesus evolved the law into something more moderate, or he was the embodiment of the earlier law.
It's one or the other.
If it's as you suggest, then Christians need to shut the fuck up about homosexuality and all the other bits of the old testament that they selectively cling to in order to back up their own prejudices.
Or.... Jesus was actually not the super nice guy he's made out to be.
Meh, either way he continues to be utterly irrelevant.
Atheist in the Bible Belt outs herself because she is MORAL
shinyblurry says...If you had been reading more closely, you might have noticed that I never said the OT was irrelevant; I said that the moral and ceremonial laws given to Israel were done away with. It is still the word of God and much of it concerns prophecy which confirms Jesus as the Messiah and prophecy about the last days.
What you consider to be progress is to discard Gods laws and believe that you can enlighten yourself up to His level. This is exactly what caused humanity to fall in the first place; it's the same lie that human beings have been chasing since the beginning of time. What spiritual progressives/relativists cannot understand is that you can't build a ladder up to Heaven. You can't get anywhere near a holy God on your own. That holy God, in the person of Jesus Christ, had to bring a ladder down to Earth for us. And to get on that ladder you have to pay a very heavy price; you have to die. When you get on that ladder you don't get to do whatever you want anymore. You have to be holy as He is holy, and that's exactly what all of these seekers of the esoteric and "secret knowledge" don't want to do. That's all this relativity amounts to; justifying rebellion against God so you can do whatever you want. Or as aleister crowley summed it up "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". That is from Satans lips to your ears.
@shinyblurry
i got all excited seeing you state that arguing over old testament was irrelevant due to jesus being the new covenant.
i really though there had been some progress and then what do you go and do?
contradict yourself by using old testament to make a point,which you had just previously said was no longer relevant.
goddammit...........
@Chairman_woo do as thou whilt,may it harm none.
now where have i heard that before?
has a ring to it.
Teenagers Answer - What's Your Greatest Accomplishment?
probieOT but because he mentioned it...man, I miss Miller's Outpost. And Licorice Pizza. Shakey's is still around, but not near me.
At least Doritos grew a brain and started making the original Taco Flavor again. Now...if only I could find some Ecto Cooler and Carnation Instant Breakfast Bars.
Richard Feynman on helping the Manhattan Project
chilaxeThat's interesting... I wasn't aware of that. It seems Nazi policies and distaste for "Jew Science" greatly slowed their nuclear research down, but they were still making fast progress on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_energy_project
"In the late 1930s, Germany might very well have had a 5-year lead on the West in [atomic weaponry]. ... [But] Manhattan did go forward, first and foremost as a counter to the feared German development [of atomic weaponry]." Google Books: How to lose a War.
The following thread isn't a primary source, but it's enough to make me think more research would probably find similar conclusions to the commenters:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1062440-will-isreal-attack-nuclear-power-plant-4.html#ixzz2OnfHjt7X
We knew the Nazis weren't pursuing Nuclear bombs because of defected scientists. Hitler thought of it as "Jew Science".
Physicist Sean Carroll refutes supernatural beliefs
shinyblurry says...The bible is very highly contested, even among Christians. Heck, the major denominations can't even agree with which books belong as part of the Bible. Compare the Old Testament (of any bible) to the Torah and tell me they're the same... They were 99% the same 2000 years ago, but while the Torah hasn't changed, the OT definitely has.
The bible isn't contested between any of the major denominations and I can't think of any denominations where it is contested. This simply isn't true. The only bone of contention is that the catholic bible contains a few more books, which were taken from the Septuagint.
Compare the books of the Old Testament to the books in the Hebrew bibles found in the dead sea scrolls. The manuscripts are pretty much exactly the same and they date to before Christ.
Here is just one hotly debated topic: The Q Source... or, how did the order of the writing of the Gospels affect each other?... and as it's obvious that some other writing inspired two of the gospels, and hence is the Word of God, how could it have gotten lost? (and keep in mind, again, these are Christians arguing over it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source
Watch this series to get a better understanding of what has really happened over the years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70SYwkoH_yc
I am familiar with higher criticism, and there is no proof there was a Q source. How can you use it to try to discredit the bible when there is no evidence it existed? If you want to present evidence for it, I'll be happy to address it.
I am such a huge fan of your blatant intellectual dishonesty. I've seen you here enough to know that you aren't naive, so you're either dishonest or delusional. Seldom do I find someone that can switch back and forth as much as you do... Claiming that Empiricism is only ineffective in finding the truth when God isn't involved... but when he is involved, Empiricism is the only way TO the truth. Nice.
I'd accept your charge of intellectual dishonesty if it were true but that isn't what I said. I said that you couldn't actually be sure of anything you found out through empiricism without God confirming it. Meaning, God is the only one who can tell you what is true, empirically or otherwise.
And it really is a secret what God can do. I certainly haven't heard anyone predict lightning at a specific time and had it happen, and for every person that is "cured" through prayer, millions die despite their piety.
You haven't heard it because you're not looking for Him. If you were you would hear it. Everone dies; the important thing is where you go afterward.
Anyways, I'm yet again reminded of how futile it is to have any sort of discussion with you, so I'll end it here.
God bless.
so I'll end it here.
Physicist Sean Carroll refutes supernatural beliefs
hatsixThe bible is very highly contested, even among Christians. Heck, the major denominations can't even agree with which books belong as part of the Bible. Compare the Old Testament (of any bible) to the Torah and tell me they're the same... They were 99% the same 2000 years ago, but while the Torah hasn't changed, the OT definitely has.
Here is just one hotly debated topic: The Q Source... or, how did the order of the writing of the Gospels affect each other?... and as it's obvious that some other writing inspired two of the gospels, and hence is the Word of God, how could it have gotten lost? (and keep in mind, again, these are Christians arguing over it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source
Watch this series to get a better understanding of what has really happened over the years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70SYwkoH_yc
I am such a huge fan of your blatant intellectual dishonesty. I've seen you here enough to know that you aren't naive, so you're either dishonest or delusional. Seldom do I find someone that can switch back and forth as much as you do... Claiming that Empiricism is only ineffective in finding the truth when God isn't involved... but when he is involved, Empiricism is the only way TO the truth. Nice.
And it really is a secret what God can do. I certainly haven't heard anyone predict lightning at a specific time and had it happen, and for every person that is "cured" through prayer, millions die despite their piety.
Anyways, I'm yet again reminded of how futile it is to have any sort of discussion with you, so I'll end it here.
Hmm... funny, a couple posts ago, you were arguing against Empiricism... and yet, you can't offer up anything that isn't Empiricist, or suffer from the same logical problems that Empiricism has.
I argued against empiricism being the only route to truth, but I didn't say that you couldn't find any truth through empirical means. You would however have no way to confirm it except through God.
"Truth" isn't a democracy... it doesn't matter how many people do or don't believe in a God. (Though I argue that in this country, the demonization of the non-religious scares people into continuing to go to church, despite their belief... though I say that through self experience, as it's hard to poll about that). The "truth" is that you'll never be able to use Science or Philosophy argue for or against the very abstract idea of whether there is a God or not.
I apologize if you were demonized. I love you and God loves you. It doesn't anger me that you're an atheist; I hope that you come to know who God is, and my heart aches for you, but it's your choice.
There are only two ways you can know truth: Either you are omnipotent or an omnipotent being reveals it to you.
One can, certainly, use logic to determine that the bible is self-contradictory, and biblical scholars (and believers) have determined that not a single book in the bible is the "original"... they've all been modified well after it had already been proclaimed to be the "Word of God". There is utterly no logic as to how a perfect being could have such a shoddy and terrible track record with his followers. It certainly doesn't make sense that he could create wars where his followers kill each other (see any and all European Wars.).
The bible is the most well attested book in ancient history. There is manuscript evidence goes back to the late 1st century, and the manuscripts agree with eachother 99.5 percent of the time. It hasn't been modified.
The bible never claims Christians will be perfect; it really says the opposite. Jesus predicts in Matthew 24 that Christians will fall into a massive apostasy and that there will be many wars, especially in the last days.
The truth is that all science and philosophy points to Christianity being bullshit. And you've already pointed out the holes in the only possible philosophical arguments that could allow you to maintain belief while being truthful to yourself.
Only God can prove Himself to anyone, and faith is a gift from God. What I've pointed out, really, is that atheists have no possible route to the truth.
God works by personal revelation; I couldn't prove He exists to you. You could hopefully see the evidence of His existence working in my life, but it takes His Spirit changing your heart and opening your eyes for you to realize that He is there.
And honestly, if you think that someone praying, and then seeing a piece of Toast with Jesus' image on it, or some mold in their bathroom in HIS image is proof enough to devote your life to that sham... well, you really don't have any sort of a grasp on what philosophy is about.
Philosophy is about a search for the truth, and when I searched for the truth, God revealed Himself to me.
But unlike you, I have truly examined the logic of my situation. I know exactly what would convince me of a super-natural power... it's exactly what would convince me of Aliens or Telepathy. A personal experience that can be independently verified by people I trust, and cannot be explained by hallucinations, slight-of-hand or illusions.
That is ALL it takes. It should be the smallest of things for an omnipotent being... after all, he certainly was never shy with appearances or miracles, according to the bible...
But alas, there remains nothing, no shred of evidence... for Jesus or for Telepathy, or for Aliens.... though I imagine that the Aliens at least have a good reason for not making their presence known.
It's no secret what God can do. If you really wanted to know Him, you would know Him already. The reason people don't come to God is because they don't want to change their life and live for Him. Would you lay down everything in your life to know God? If not, it explains why you don't know Him yet.
Sinead O' Connor - Troy
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PZ Myers - A Despairing Perspective on American Education
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How Not to Jump Over a Chain
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Should we allow Youtube links? (User Poll by Sarzy)
antWe go OT to get more new votes?
So, what happens when there's a tie?
A Day in India
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Sperm Whale Encounter
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Jungle Brawl, episode 2
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SNL - Tech Talk: iPhone 5
FletchIn before "SNL hasn't been funny since..."
Slightly OT, but does anybody else think SNL scored when they hired Kate McKinnon, especially with Kristen Wiig leaving?
Shuttle Endeavor Crosses Los Angeles in Time Lapse
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