STFU Bobknight. Really.

You're just a silly old racist with no understanding of why POVERTY causes VIOLENCE.

Being poor and desperate as fuck.
Never having anyone to support you financially or emotionally.
Seeing absolutely no future for yourself because the only opportunities available are to gang-bang or work minimum wage jobs endlessly.

These are the reasons for the cycle of violence in poor black communities.

You just want blame black people for their problems.

"What's wrong with you? You've only been systematically oppressed for the past 400 years. Why can't you just stop all that poor people behavior so be can make some change as a country"

You fuckin' loon. Take your stupid ignorant opinions somewhere else.

i live near Anchorage, a town called Wasilla, you may know this as where loons come from.

Yes, a crazy nice nearly snowfree winter is being had. Roads have been fantastic except for maybe 2 days so far. We had maybe 4-5 inches of snow in our yard which, weeks ago, compressed down on some warmer/melty days and then re-froze into a very hard ice pack of just an inch or two thick across the entire yard. Enough to bust your ass for sure.

I bet the snow plowers and snow machiners are lamenting.

I thought she was the nutty Monster drink lady but evidently they are two separate loons

the loons final sentence is excellent

@newtboy
"i know you are but what am i i"?

that had me cackling like a loon.bravo my friend.

please understand guys my comment is in reference to this particular thread,not any previous private or otherwise.

my commentary was also tongue-n-cheek and not to be taken too seriously.
i was poking the hornets nest...like a boss..who also happens to be a dick.

please forgive.

as for conflicting private to public messages.
well..that would infuriate me as well newt.you wont get an argument from me on that point.
that speaks to a persons character and integrity and explains a ton in regards to your attitude towards @chingalera.

our integrity is all we have.
when you take away everything,the only thing left we have to trade is our word.
our honor.
our respect for another human being.
when we lose that trust....we lose everything.

i do not know the particulars on how you all conversed in private.its none of my business and not my place to judge.

but if what you are saying is true newt (and i have no reason to believe it isnt.there is a past precedent in that regard) then i have to ask @chingalera why?

why say one thing in private and then another in public?
that is so disengenuious and un-necessary my man.
you make good solid points..often,and often i agree with them.
so why would invalidate them by interacting with such duplicity?

you cant call out newt for disregarding or dismissing your points because it was YOU who invalidated those points by your interactions with him.

and you know this.
dont act like you dont because i know your smarter than the average bear.so dont insult my intelligence by feigning innocence.

you owe newt an apology.period.

and dont prove @VoodooV right.we both were there when you flamed out and it was ugly.
and you made it ugly by taking it personal.
i never judged you for that..still dont.
but that does not mean i condoned how you played that closing scene out.
real people had real feelings hurt...including you.

now i realize this thread is destroyed and i dont even know who i need to apologize to.
so...
to the original poster:i am truly sorry for this tragic hi-jacking of your thread.

but it appears necessary.

@chingalera i realize that much of what you do is to shock people out of complacency.
to get them to perceive a situation with different goggles.
many times the weapons you use are confrontational language and a persistence that rivals the most glorious case of OCD.

those intentions are noble.
i agree and am of a similar mindset.this is probably why i can read choggie-speak with little trouble.

i understand what you are trying to do.

but how can you expect someone like @newtboy to listen to anything you have to say when you cant keep even basic correspondence open and honest?
it invalidates everything you attempt from then on out.
your words have to have the weight of your integrity behind them for them to have ANY impact.
you lose that and your words become dust.

sounds like you will have to work to gain the respect from @newtboy.i wish you well in that endeavour.

please understand i consider you a friend @chingalera and hearing this has upset me a great deal.

and @VoodooV,
you may be right brother.i do not know what the future brings.hopefully ching will prove you wrong.i know he could if he wanted.

but i disagree with keeping the riff raff out.
i dont mind confrontation or arguments.in fact i LOVE them and @chingalera has a talent for poking the hornets nest and shattering the monotone-vanilla-circle-jerk-clones into a frenzy.

and that my friend..is a good thing.

@chingalera keeps the locals buzzing,constantly challenging pre-concieved notions and ideologies and i love that fucker for that.he keeps this site interesting.his antics bring lurkers to actually comment/post and others who usually side-line to jump in.

all good things.

but...
i cannot abide the darker side.
the hurtful side.
maybe i am being naive'....i always see redemption for those who the entrenched masses see as unredeemable.i always feel i can save those who are truly lost.

i always see the human first and the actions last.

so you may be right.i just hope you are wrong.
maybe this thread will impact my friend and remind him we are all humans.

i dont know.........
i hope though...
i hope.

@ChaosEngine again,as i told newtboy,no argument here.
hopefully this derailed thread has cleared some air and brought the things to the table that needed to be discussed.

which from my viewpoint is about integrity.
you cant admonish people for being egocentric and then turn around and be egocentric yourself.
it weakens the very position you were trying to make in the first place.(ching,not you CE).
it is hypocritical.

i am a dissident.
a radical.
a subversive.
even to the church i am an apostate.
so i understand @chingalera on a certain level.he has never treated me other than a friend and compatriot.so it pains me to see how he deals with those he disagrees with,and just how far he will take a story to a painful conclusion.
this does not give be joy or pleasure.

he is a righteous dude.passionate,sensitive and creative and has soooo much to offer.
im sorry ya'all didnt get to see that side of him.
but maybe thats on him,because you all should.

there is a reason he has been invited back multiple times and its not because he whined about it but rather he truly is an exceptional human being.

maybe he should show that side more.
takes honesty and courage,but that boy has a huge capacity for that.

@chingalera
balls in your court brother.
what ya gonna do?

*note* for all those who read to this point.
cookies and milk will be served in the back storage room.
free fondlings for the ladies.
dont forget to tip your bartenders and waitresses!

@enoch

There is little doubt that Child Labor, Labor Explotation, and Forced Labor continue to be of a major concern with Africa and Asia/India being particularly problematic. That said, concerted efforts are being made to reduce these numbers and they are improving, but slower than anyone would like. Unfortunately the problem is largely cyclical - even educated youth have trouble finding productive work, so they are forced into unskilled labor, and there is little economic growth.

Again, there is no magic wand that any one organization or person can waive to resolve these issues. The ILO has been trying for almost 100 years...

I would not characterize every person who is lucky or privileged enough that they do not live in those conditions to be terrible people.

Consumerism?
Nor would I characterize people's value as simply being good consumers. The people I know in my life all make contributions to the welfare of those around them and are rewarded for those contributions.

e.g. My best friend, a p.h.d. doing research regarding immunology I can't begin to understand. My fiance, finishing her ER residency at the county hospital. My brother, working as a kayaking guide.

Circling the Drain
Is America really circling the drain? I doubt it. Has it done terrible things? We all know it has.

When I look around I see a lot of problems here. We do have a huge wealth gap. We do have ghettos and crime. We have all sorts of selfcentered ego driven loons.

Yet we also have an enormous pool of talented and intelligent people working on all kinds of things. Some of which are mundane and some of which are really amazing - and many of which are sifted about on this website all the time.

Carlin
I saw Carlin live twice before he died. I own several of his books. I think he is a brilliant comedian and insightful thinker. My point is and was - he saw it as his job to remind us "HEY - look over here. See this shit? This is FUCKED." And he was right.

I cleaned up my multiple rants. So sorry for the wall of text.

-------

It's because of guys like the one in the video that I laugh when people are they're Libertarian. I think they're overall idea is nice and dandy, but much like steadfast religious people who don't actually know their theology and how it would actually play out in reality, this guy contradicts himself by the end.

Especially his private defense agencies . . . except, ALL of those solutions are paid for by the government OR by private agencies to take away the liberties from those whom they see as their subjects. But then again, the initiation of force is immoral . . . so any defense agency is immoral, whether it's government funded or not.

And you don't need a fire department because private companies make fire sprinklers? Except, the reason fire sprinklers are everywhere now is because the government forced builders to use them after the free market allowed cities to burn down and hundreds if not thousands to die because of their lack of use. Yes, private companies solve all social issues . . .

------------------

Wait?? Did he really just say the original Robber Baron's lowered prices to be "competitive" and drive each other out of the market?? Wow . . . They lowered prices to put others out of business by raising prices where they already had a monopoly. It wasn't competitive at all. It was a monopoly so they could game the system and raise prices afterwards. There was no competition whatsoever. It was who could butter the hands of the Prices and Kings to get the most lucrative exclusive deal which eventually led to those countries rebelling by forcibly taking over those oils companies and nationalizing. Those stories are EXACTLY why the US has Anti-Trust laws . . .

And for the record, Steve Jobs was ousted from Apple because he spent too much money trying to make the US factories pretty on the inside and never wanted to move to China. It was a board of directors decision and overall, Apple hasn't been the worse offender overseas. It's not the greatest record, but hell, it's not the Wal-Mart suppliers that LOCKED their workers in a unsafe building they knew would catch on fire or crumble. Or both. But hey, free market baby!


-------------

WTF, Government FORCED business owners to segregate? Or could it simply be the RACISTS that refused to serve "coloreds" and their white politicians who had lucrative deals by being in government, so to get elected they passed laws against blacks.

And public education is responsible for racism? So these rich white people who NEVER went to public school were racists because of public education . . . . Holy shit this guy is a loon.

Just because the school is funded by the government doesn't mean the people teaching there aren't racists, or the society itself is racist. Or that there were MANY whites who were against racism and who fought alongside blacks to end racism and to give equal access, without ANY financial incentive whatsoever. Matter of fact, many people SUFFERED financially for standing up for the rights of others.

It's being tested over me right now.
http://www.google.com/loon/where/

I got to this from the following article, which has some details: http://www.slashgear.com/googles-project-loon-uses-giant-balloons-to-bring-affordable-internet-15286608/
Also, a video with some more details: http://videosift.com/video/Project-Loon-The-Technology

i'm not sure having ron paul publicly on your side is a great thing.
not that he isn't right on many things, he's just been successfully portrayed as a loon.

On a daily basis, politicians, like Obama, and pundits in the lamestream media mindlessly bump their gums about global warming, uh... "climate change" (the term employed when the earth stopped warming), without having the slightest idea what they are talking about. Most simply parrot the line about a "so-called "consensus of scientists," without the slightest knowledge of the science or data, or point to extreme weather events as “proof.” Al Gore and Henry Waxman have become masters at this. Noam Chomsky should stick to linguistics. Once he ventures outside of his specialty, he’s just a run-of-the-mill leftist loon.

Science does not operate on the basis of consensus, but provable fact and hard DATA that is replicable. No one can prove that C02 causes warming, apart from the other forces that are chiefly determinative of climate--solar output, cosmic rays (and their effect on cloud cover), the earth's elliptical orbit, its axial tilt, etc. The earth's climate cycle has been in place for eons and is not being altered by any significant degree by anthropogenic CO2. In fact, 99% of the people who believe in the "global warming crisis" cannot even tell you what the current globally-averaged temperature is, nor how much it may have risen over the past century (or any other time frame for that matter). Nor do they know that the current globally averaged temperature is 1-2 degrees C below what it was during the Medieval Warm Period, when human activity could not have been a factor.

Neither temperatures nor sea level rise are accelerating. Temperatures haven't risen since 1997. And even the U.N. predicts just an 8.5" to 18.5" sea level rise by 2100 (2007 IPCC Report), far below the 20 feet predicted by Al Gore, or the 35 feet predicted by Joe Lieberman in 2002. In fact, sea levels have been rising at a rate of about 7" per century since the end of the last age 12,500 years ago, so the U.N.'s predicted range is likely to fall at the low end.

Weather stations around the world are notoriously unreliable, many placed in locations now near asphalt parking lots, etc., replicating the urban island heat effect. Calculating the globally averaged temperature in an enormously complex task. compounded when scientific frauds like Phil Jones and Michael Mann (of the infamous "hockey stick" graph) hide, and would not supply, their data because it does not support their predetermined conclusions of anthropogenic global warming. (Climategate). This is not surprising, however, since thousands of scientists stand to collectively lose billions in federal research grants if the hoax is exposed (more than $80 billion has already been spent on such research, nearly 500 times what oil companies have spent to fund so-called “skeptics”), a fact totally lost, or grossly misrepresented, by global warming religionists.

The fact is: even if the earth's temperature is rising marginally, from natural forces, it will be far better for mankind than falling temperatures. It will result in higher crop yields and less death around the world. More than twice as many people die of extreme cold than extreme heat.

Contrary to morons such as Al Gore (who will never agree to debate the topic, so fearful is he of getting his clock cleaned), scientific evidence clearly shows that we have had no increase in extreme weather events. Dr. Roger Pielke Jr., Professor of Environmental Studies at the University of Colorado, summed up the latest science on weather extremes when he wrote that “There is no evidence that disasters are getting worse because of climate change....There's really no evidence that we're in the midst of an extreme weather era - whether man has influenced climate or not,”
Pielke also explained that the data does not support linking Hurricane Sandy to man-made global warming. “Sandy was terrible, but we're currently in a relative hurricane 'drought'.” But that doesn’t stop politicians from trying to make political hay from them.

Much of the gum bumping about "global warming" may be attributed to the political aspirations of Al Gore who hoped to ride an environmental white horse into the White House. It all comes down to a politically-motivated overreaction to a 0.35 degree C increase in globally-averaged temperatures in the period from 1978-1997. Since 1998, temperatures have flat-lined. They are now at 14.5 degrees Celsius which is exactly where they were in 1997. What this amounted to was a hyperbolic response to a temporary and cyclical climate phenomenon, which has been replicated a myriad of times in human history.

The climate history of the 20th century, by itself, contradicts the CO2 equals warming hypothesis. From 1913-1945, CO2 was not a factor and temperatures rose slightly. And from 1945-1977, temperatures fell in the face of rising CO2. It was only in the period from 1978-1997 that temperatures and CO2 rose simultaneously. But since CO2 is likely to continue to rise for the foreseeable future, we will have periods of both rising and falling temperatures in the face of rising CO2.

The scientific travesty is that many politicians are trying to transform CO2 into a “pollutant” requiring draconian federal regulations whose only effect will be to stifle economic growth. CO2 is a harmless trace element constituting just 0.039 per cent of the earth's atmosphere (390 parts per million by volume). It's what humans and animals exhale and its presence helps plant production. 500 million years ago, CO was 20 times more prevalent in our atmosphere. The aim is to convince the uninformed that carbon dioxide is the equivalent of carbon monoxide, a highly toxic gas.

With time and historical perspective, the global warming crisis will turn out to be the greatest scientific fraud in history. But that won’t politicians from exploiting it in the short term.

On a daily basis, politicians, like Obama, and pundits mindlessly bump their gums about global warming, uh... "climate change" (the term employed when the earth stopped warming), without having the slightest idea what they are talking about. Malloy is just the latest in a long line of demagogic politicians trying to capitalize on the scare. Most simply parrot the line about a "so-called "consensus of scientists," without the slightest knowledge of the science or data, or point to extreme weather events as “proof.”

Science does not operate on the basis of consensus, but provable fact and hard DATA that is replicable. No one can prove that C02 causes warming, apart from the other forces that are chiefly determinative of climate--solar output, cosmic rays (and their effect on cloud cover), the earth's elliptical orbit, its axial tilt, etc. The earth's climate cycle has been in place for eons and is not being altered by any significant degree by anthropogenic CO2. In fact, 99% of the people who believe in the "global warming crisis" cannot even tell you what the current globally-averaged temperature is, nor how much it may have risen over the past century (or any other time frame for that matter). Nor do they know that the current globally averaged temperature is 1-2 degrees C below what it was during the Medieval Warm Period, when human activity could not have been a factor.

Neither temperatures nor sea level rise are accelerating. Temperatures haven't risen since 1997. And even the U.N. predicts just an 8.5" to 18.5" sea level rise by 2100 (2007 IPCC Report), far below the 20 feet predicted by Al Gore, or the 35 feet predicted by Joe Lieberman in 2002. In fact, sea levels have been rising at a rate of about 7" per century since the end of the last age 12,500 years ago, so the U.N.'s predicted range is likely to fall at the low end.

Weather stations around the world are notoriously unreliable, many placed in locations now near asphalt parking lots, etc., replicating the urban island heat effect. Calculating the globally averaged temperature in an enormously complex task. compounded when scientific frauds like Phil Jones and Michael Mann (of the infamous "hockey stick" graph) hide, and would not supply, their data because it does not support their predetermined conclusions of anthropogenic global warming. (Climategate). This is not surprising, however, since thousands of scientists stand to collectively lose billions in federal research grants if the hoax is exposed (more than $80 billion has already been spent on such research, nearly 500 times what oil companies have spent to fund so-called “skeptics”).

The fact is: even if the earth's temperature is rising marginally, from natural forces, it will be far better for mankind than falling temperatures. It will result in higher crop yields and less death around the world. More than twice as many people die of extreme cold than extreme heat. The scientific evidence clearly shows that we have had no increase in extreme weather events. Dr. Roger Pielke Jr., Professor of Environmental Studies at the University of Colorado, summed up the latest science on weather extremes when he wrote that “There is no evidence that disasters are getting worse because of climate change....There's really no evidence that we're in the midst of an extreme weather era - whether man has influenced climate or not,”
Pielke also explained that the data does not support linking Hurricane Sandy to man-made global warming. “Sandy was terrible, but we're currently in a relative hurricane 'drought'.” But that doesn’t stop politicians from trying to make political hay from them.

Much of the gum bumping about "global warming" may be attributed to the political aspirations of Al Gore who hoped to ride an environmental white horse into the White House. It all comes down to a politically-motivated overreaction to a 0.35 degree C increase in globally-averaged temperatures in the period from 1978-1997. Since 1998, as Mr. Hart correctly points out, temperatures have flat-lined or declined. What this amounted to was a hyperbolic response to a temporary and cyclical climate phenomenon, which has been replicated a myriad of times in human history.

The climate history of the 20th century, by itself, contradicts the CO2 equals warming hypothesis. From 1913-1945, CO2 was not a factor and temperatures rose slightly. And from 1945-1977, temperatures fell in the face of rising CO2. It was only in the period from 1978-1997 that temperatures and CO2 rose simultaneously. But since CO2 is likely to continue to rise for the foreseeable future, we will have periods of both rising and falling temperatures in the face of rising CO2.

The scientific travesty is that many politicians are trying to transform CO2 into a “pollutant” requiring draconian federal regulations whose only effect will be to stifle economic growth. CO2 is a harmless trace element constituting just 0.039 per cent of the earth's atmosphere (390 parts per million by volume). It's what humans and animals exhale and its presence helps plant production. 500 million years ago, CO was 20 times more prevalent in our atmosphere. The aim is to convince the uninformed that carbon dioxide is the equivalent of carbon monoxide, a highly toxic gas.

With time and historical perspective, the global warming crisis will turn out to be the greatest scientific fraud in history. But that won’t politicians from exploiting it in the short term. Obama has already wasted billions trying to fix a non-problem.
And now he’s even orchestrating the mindless followers of a new secular religion to march on the Mall to advance this silly agenda.

It's really pretty simple. Rand is an utter loon who just happens to be right one time. Rather like a broken clock.

If he gets the Republican nomination, that will be the tolling of the bell for the party, they'll have given up hope of fielding a legitimate candidate.

Why can't other politicians see the political value in behaving like Warren? She got elected on her convictions, and I sure hope she'll get re-elected. I'm with Bryce, I hope she's the next president, and I sure hope there are enough Americans left who still have the sense to see how this is the way things SHOULD be.

EVERY member of Senate and Congress should be this aggressive about their convictions. I don't even care if they're anti-abortion loons, Libertarians, or hard-line conservatives. Why can't they stand up and speak clearly to their convictions the way she does? Are they all so scared? Or don't they have real convictions, so they just flow with the current and do the minimum it takes to get reelected?

Thanks for you response. Maybe I should read his books. However, to reiterate, the sparse solutions he has proposed that I have seen are, as I said, not tangible. You, yourself, appear to quote an example when you say; "We should stop doing that, if we don't want that to happen." The "we" in that sentence are, according to Chomsky, in no position to change anything by peaceful means. His rhetoric appeals to the radical elements of society to "take back" control, which implies anarchy and rebellion. His corporate conspiracy theories are myriad and he strikes me as a highly intelligent, educated version of the loon David Icke.

Don't want to speak for choggie; not sure I could anyway; but maybe because there is no longer a conservative party in this country?

I'm a bit conservative on certain issues. I would never want to be associated with the authoritarian loons of the modern GOP.

Then again, I'm opposed to political parties except possibly the relatively short-lived, single-issue variety. I'd never claim to be non-political, ether, so I guess I'm just speculating.