@srd I think there are a lot of factors keeping us from getting additional parties here. For one, both parties have lost Presidential runs due to 3rd party candidates splitting their base in the last 20 years (Clinton in '92, Bush in '00), which really raises a lot of concern about "splitters".

Some form of runoff voting or European-style proportional representation would go a long way for the viability of 3rd parties. I think if we had either one of those, I personally would be all about promoting a new party that's a handful of ticks to the left of today's Democratic party.

As it is though, I poo-poo the idea of voting for the Green party because all they do is split the Democratic vote and make it easier for Republicans to win elections.

It's also why I really relish the idea of a separate and distinct Tea Party, since it will cannibalize Republican votes and make it easier for Democrats to win (and that's why Republicans everywhere are making sure the Tea Party doesn't actually get a candidate opposing a Republican in general elections).

If I knew that voting for a Green or Progressive party wouldn't have the net effect of helping Republicans win more elections, I probably would do so. I think a lot of progressives would join me in that (same with Republicans and a Libertarian party).

I'm much more in favor of people putting together a bipartisan bi-ideological campaign to implement some electoral reforms like instant runoff voting and proportional representation than I am in favor of people leaving the Democratic and Republican parties and trying to create viable 3rd and 4th parties under our existing electoral system.

>> ^srd:

This is something that keeps on popping up in my mind for over a year now everytime I look at internal US politics: It's time for a 3 party system, and I think you're going to get it (or else the current system is going to go so grossly defunct that the US will drift into third world status over the next 20 years).
Have the far-right republicans, bible (t)humpers and T-Partyists split off into their own party; the conservative democrats join the Republicans and presto: You've got a left, right and center party. Reform the system to not just allow but to actively support coalitions and things just might start moving forward again.


When I think of Democrats and Republicans, I already think of them as being centrists, and they vote similarly on foreign affairs. Obama promised change, but he adopted bad aspects of the Bush Doctrine he promised to repeal. That alone should be proof how similar the two parties are.

I say we give the Green Party and the Libertarian Party a chance in the limelight.

Good point. They're all crooks with blood on their hands. The only logical answer then is to stop voting them in from the two non-peace parties. Problem solved.
I look forward to the Green Party vs. Libertarian Party in three years.


I think it's wrong to equate peace with not having blood on ones hands. The most blood on Clinton's hands came from his insistence on 'peace' with Rwanda and minding our own business while 800,000 died for our desire for our own 'peace'.

@NetRunner. Good point. They're all crooks with blood on their hands. The only logical answer then is to stop voting them in from the two non-peace parties. Problem solved.

I look forward to the Green Party vs. Libertarian Party in three years.

The left and green parties encourage mass immigration into Sweden because it generates votes. They don't care what happens to the rest of us, since we do not vote for them. It's crazy but it's true. The "mayor" of Malmö, where there are huge problems, invited about 10 000 leftist activists to have the "European Social Forum" in Malmö. The result?

Smashed windows, burned cars, beatings and mass riots. Millions down the drain. On top of that, the activists brought their own food and lived in tents so no money was made. Thousands of police were drafted from all over the country. Now they have to cut back on shifts to cover that cost. Why do this? It makes no sense from a financial or public relations standpoint.

Votes. Plain and simple.

The left loves this shit.

The problem for the left begins when the immigrants get their shit together and educate themselves and get jobs. They no longer need government handouts and suffer under the high taxes and presto - no votes.

So not only do the left encourage mass immigration. They encourage immigration from problem areas - rich with uneducated refugees so to create a permanent under class, which will grant them power and be powerless to do anything else.

That is the great scam of socialism: they will make your life better - just not good.

I really do question what we've learned in school. I think it's national indoctrination, that's why I dislike the public school system so much. That, and my education was sub par, and I was not the sharpest tool in the shed at 18 because of it. I've done better as an autodidactic which has also lead me to understand what I learned in school was not so much a lie but a cherry-picking of information devised for social engineering and thinly veiled as unbiased education. Regardless, I don't think any of my classes properly explained Capitalism to me, nor the free market, nor fiat currency, Corporatism, the Federal Reserve, etc. etc. etc. They didn't teach me a lot of things except how to be dumb and be a cog.

I get it. I don't tow the lines. But, you seem to want to lump me in with anti-abortionists (I refuse to call them by any euphemism), creationists, anti-immigrationists, homophobes and racists. Seriously? All of that is antithetical to my positions and those of Libertarians. In fact, if California was a Libertarian state, I bet gays would no longer be secondhand citizens like they are in the blue state. Democrat civil liberties fail.

What's so wrong with personal liberty, DFT? What's wrong with giving the individual a right to be captain of his own destiny? Why shouldn't we honor self-reliance over dependency? Why do you feel people are too stupid and incompetent to live with freedom? I believe you veil elitism under the banner of democracy. Most people do who believe they know what's best for everyone instead of allowing the individual to choose. When your direct democracy leads to bad legislation and tyranny you will pretend it wasn't democracy, but a lack of it; and therefore it's a selective democracy where the pro-Democratic voices should be heard, but dissenters should not. To me your party sounds a lot like the other party.

Also, I understand your fears of Corporations. I, too, am anti-Corporatist and I certainly don't trust them. They wouldn't exist if government didn't allow them to. In fact, it used to take an act of Congress to create a Corporation; now it all has to do with how much money you have. And it's government regulation that allows them to monopolize the markets by squeezing out the small business owners. Corporations, like government, hate competition, and most regulation is set up to protect Corporate interests, not ours. I've given a great example of this here in the 5th and 6th paragraph and show how a protective government bureaucracy like the EPA is only used to further the Corporate agenda, not protect us. That's your government regulatory system failing... again.

I could ask you the same question about being a Democrat that you asked me about being Libertarian. Seriously, if you were part of the Green Party or a Marxist I'd probably have more respect for your position. But a Democrat? Sure I can see how you agree with some of their positions, but all of them? Hell, most of them? The continuation of the unconstitutional war? More troops sent to Afghanistan? No mention from your party on closing the 700+ military bases in 130 countries overseas. And, what about the Patriot Act? Your party isn't moving to repeal it, only modify it. Your party is a sham. And the fact that you can't see how similar your party is to the Republican Party is very amusing but mostly frustrating. Pot, meet kettle.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday

^As long as you feel you can drive, I don't think Blankfist gives a shit. For someone who mocks extremes as much as BF does, he certainly has no problem with extreme freedoms and extreme punishments. No gradient with people like him. Uniform laws are collectivist justice!

I equate Libertarian fools with the Canadian Green Party; as long as they understand their ideal society will never exist, they can wax philosophical until the cows come home.

And about that ^ Liberalism - the very article he links to credits John Locke with popularizing and articulating Liberalism. While John Locke had better ideas than most, he errs (egregiously) when he suggests it's ok to steal the Indians' land because they ain't doing nothing with it. For a man who talked so much about property, he sure was a hypocrite.

Conservatives should try reading the bible as a whole not picking and choosing passages out of context.

If Jesus was alive today he'd be a member of the Green Party.

Johny has two quarters, four dimes, six nickles and twelve pennies. He needs to pay for his state subsidized school lunch which costs $0.86 plus $0.37 for a half pint carton of milk. He also wants to buy an orange to eat with his lunch which costs $0.44.

How much money would Johnny need to steal from everyone in the cafeteria to pay for his orange? Please pick the correct answer:

1. (Libertarian) He will have to go without an orange, because stealing is wrong.
2. (Republican) If there was prayer in school, his cup would runneth over.
3. (Democrat) $0.35.
4. (Green Party) What was that milk carton made of? Is it biodegradable? Is that plastic cutlery? Whoa, Johnny cannot have this lunch until its carbon foot print is known.

Also, Huffington Post has been running a continuous liveblog on this since the polls opened:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html

They just gave instructions on how to watch the English version of the Iranian state media, which apparently had a discussion pannel being led by the US Green Party's 2008 candidate for President, Cynthia McKinney (super-wierd).

Hi,

I don't know you. You seem like a decent guy who has used the sift, to a certain extent, as a means of promoting awareness of politics, justices and other issues that have been important to you. A difficult task, but in the time that you have invested into this site, you have clearly had some success.

Now, I don't know your situation. Or anything that has contributed to you needing to take a break from here for that matter. You know better then anyone what you gotta do to take care of yourself. But if you decide to take a vacation from this place, even a permanent one, I would ask you to leave your legacy intact. If you discard your videos, I don't know who would track them down to repost them. Being linked here will get some attention for some of the issues you thought were important even after your attention has turned to more important things. It's better for the sift in my opinion.

Sorry to hear times have gotten tight for you.
I wish you the best, and hope you land back on your feet soon.

-n

In reply to this comment by Constitutional_Patriot:
Look.. the basic fact is that I'm leaving the sift.. I didn't want to make this a public exibition. I was hoping there wouldn't be a sift talk about this. I've deleted all my playlists, comments and started pulling my vids.

The problem is convoluted and difficult to explain but basically I see this site as a place to find funny and cute vids with the occasional nice music vid. When I post videos on some extremely important issues that contain investigations by credible news organizations into henous acts by the govt./military complex and it gets one vote, while at the same time I'm ridiculed and taunted, it makes me think: "Why the fuck do I even bother with these assholes?"

I am removing myself from this frustrating and silly envoronment. If you like any posts I have then feel free to repost them yourself. I don't have time for this anymore. 2009 and forward are going to be some extremely difficult times for me and the rest of the world and I am on the verge of being homeless because I'm unemployed and broke. I haven't felt very welcome here and I'm sick of the stereotypes and bullshit.

I would have just deleted the account but that's apparently not an option. Look... I'm not getting paid for this. I have a difficult time dealing with some of the issues that I've brung forth to you all. The straw that broke the camel's back here has nothing to do with Netrunner. He's a good guy but I think he's politically misaligned. I don't blame him though.. I've been a Dem, a Republican, a Green party, Constitutional party, and a Libertarian. Why have I jumped all over the spectrum? Because you can't get a full perspective unless you've experienced them all. I suppose that this is why I consider myself a Centrist now. There's lots of good and bad from all parties. Also I've noticed there is corruption in all of them as well. Most notably in the Dems and Repub sides. Corruption, Infiltration, Greed, Hypocrisy, Deception.. the list goes on. I'm pretty fed up with all of it really.

If you all really want me to not delete my current vids then fine, I'll leave them be but I won't be posting anymore vids, I won't be maintaining any playlists anymore and I won't be writing anymore blogs. This isn't about who wins or who loses. This isn't about who did what or anything like that. I'm just some average guy that can't afford to do this anymore - physically and mentally.

Good luck to you all.

Look.. the basic fact is that I'm leaving the sift.. I didn't want to make this a public exibition. I was hoping there wouldn't be a sift talk about this. I've deleted all my playlists, comments and started pulling my vids.

The problem is convoluted and difficult to explain but basically I see this site as a place to find funny and cute vids with the occasional nice music vid. When I post videos on some extremely important issues that contain investigations by credible news organizations into henous acts by the govt./military complex and it gets one vote, while at the same time I'm ridiculed and taunted, it makes me think: "Why the fuck do I even bother with these assholes?"

I am removing myself from this frustrating and silly envoronment. If you like any posts I have then feel free to repost them yourself. I don't have time for this anymore. 2009 and forward are going to be some extremely difficult times for me and the rest of the world and I am on the verge of being homeless because I'm unemployed and broke. I haven't felt very welcome here and I'm sick of the stereotypes and bullshit.

I would have just deleted the account but that's apparently not an option. Look... I'm not getting paid for this. I have a difficult time dealing with some of the issues that I've brung forth to you all. The straw that broke the camel's back here has nothing to do with Netrunner. He's a good guy but I think he's politically misaligned. I don't blame him though.. I've been a Dem, a Republican, a Green party, Constitutional party, and a Libertarian. Why have I jumped all over the spectrum? Because you can't get a full perspective unless you've experienced them all. I suppose that this is why I consider myself a Centrist now. There's lots of good and bad from all parties. Also I've noticed there is corruption in all of them as well. Most notably in the Dems and Repub sides. Corruption, Infiltration, Greed, Hypocrisy, Deception.. the list goes on. I'm pretty fed up with all of it really.

If you all really want me to not delete my current vids then fine, I'll leave them be but I won't be posting anymore vids, I won't be maintaining any playlists anymore and I won't be writing anymore blogs. This isn't about who wins or who loses. This isn't about who did what or anything like that. I'm just some average guy that can't afford to do this anymore - physically and mentally.

Good luck to you all.

Walmart has destroyed countless small businesses and replaced them with low paying warehouses selling cheap ass plastic crap.

Leftists always use this line about how the "poor small businesses" are ruined by Walmart, yet they're the same ones that want to tax the f**k out of small businesses so they can barely function. And how many employees can small businesses hire, even if they wanted to?

And of course, much of it was made possible by Clinton making China trading partner #1...enabling the Chinese to sell pure crap here at low prices, putting US industry/suppliers out of business and hurting the average worker

I ask all of you: of all the stuff you own, what percentage is stuff you keep for five years or more? I bet it's sentimental stuff, handmade stuff, stuff you made yourself or got as gifts, or larger investments like your car, big appliances, furniture. A lot of what you call "crap" are necessary items that are cheaper to replace. Walmart is obviously fulfilling a need, that ISN'T being fulfilled by crocodile tears from "poverty activists".

And for those so arrogant as to assume they know what even one other person "needs"---provided they're willing to humor you--you've got a long night of latte-sipping and convincing ahead of you, at the end of which you will only discover how much you have to learn.

QM, you are a serious idiot, but at least your pathetic drivel is funny.

Wish I could say the same about your green party soundbites, but they've been cut-n-pasted from Daily Kos too many times to count.

What I wish I could do with all of you who "hate" Walmart is make you run your own brick-and-mortar business for a year. See how 'easy' it is to make a profit.

Thanks for the link Pprt. The article explains in detail the chaos after the storm - particularly with law enforcement.

From today's Times-Picayune concerning the National Guard in New Orleans - yes, it is still here.
http://www.nola.com/timespic/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-6/122975422937560.xml&coll=1

Malik Rahim, the first man interviewed in the video, was the Green Party candidate for congress in district one. That election took place on December 6th and Republican Anh Joseph Cao won. Incidentally, I had a New Yorker send me a video of Rahim speaking. She thought I lived in that district and wanted me to vote for him. I live in the second district which settled its election in November.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od_wHcfUMkI

She also sent me this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpo7MzKnBCc

I thought from this clip Obama made his points better.

In other Debate News
--THIRD PARTY DEBATE--
this Sunday October, 19
8:00 pm EST --Tune to CSPAN--
confirmed candidates
-Ralph Nader (Independent)
-Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party)
-Cynthia Mckinney (Green Party)
*Bob Barr please be in the debate*
(Feel free to copy and paste This)