Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Give me some suggestions on how I can convert this lost sheep and bring him to the light.

Read him the God Delusion.

You could start with his nonsensical reference to Big Bang Theory, Abiogenesis & Evolution, which he doesn't even seem to realize are different theories.

Creationists love to point out that we believe "something came from nothing". In fact, that's what they believe. We don't know where everything came from.

Point out the contradictions and errors in the inerrant words of God. Here's a few starting points:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_of_the_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible

Just reading that short exchange it's clear that he doesn't want a two-sided conversation. I predict Russ's debating tactics to consist mostly of "LALALALALALALA" with his fingers in his ears. He doesn't know what the "other side" thinks and he doesn't want to know. He's scared of the world. You can't help him.

Don't waste your time, Dag.

This usually yields some decent results for me:

If God is all good and all powerful, then how can evil exist?

(He'll probably respond with something about "free will")

You can respond with, "If God is omnipotent, then doesn't he already know what choices people are going to make with their 'free will'"?

(He'll say something else that will hopefully lead you to....)

So if an omnipotent God creates us knowing what choices we will make, then how can that truly be considered 'free will'? Doesn't he already know our fate from the moment he first creates us?

(Let him say something else.)

Why would God make me an atheist and then punish me for it by sending me to hell?

Other tough questions:

-Revelations: Why would a loving God engage in this kind of genocide?
-Noah's Ark: Again, what's up with God mass murdering 99.9 percent of his creations?
-The Fall: Why would a loving God punish all humans for the flaws of his prototypes?
-Jesus: What was the point of all that pomp and circumstance?
-Jealous God: Why is God described in the Bible as Jealous? Isn't that a petty emotion for such a powerful being? Why would God overlook the good deeds of people who do not believe in him because of this jealously?
-Cultures: Why did the Judeo/Christian God not make himself known to all cultures?
-Tower of Babel: Do you really believe that all humans at one time spoke the same language? Did God create Esparanto? What about Kingon?
-Eating shellfish, wearing garments of more than one type of cloth are abominations in the eyes of the Lord; do you engage in these activities?
-No new miracles: God used to do awesome shit all the time in Bible days; why hasn't he done cool shit lately, within the last 2 millenia?
-Why do we have 'tailbones'? Why do some people have vestigial tails?
-Does God send people that are unaware of Christianity to hell?
-Suffering, disease, starvation, birth defects, Dinosaur bones, Christian rock, etc......

"The Bible has been, far and away, the most scrutinized writing in the history of the world, yet not a single verse has ever been refuted - scientifically, archaeologically or historically."

Hit him where he feels confident but is weak - there. You can quote 'sciency mumbo-jumbo' till your throat is sore and you likely won't get through. So weaken his resolve by tearing apart his beliefs instead of building up your own.

Young Earthers are easy to refute. Even if the refuse to believe carbon dating, point to things like fossils, oil and precious minerals like diamonds - they take a long while to make, far longer than their idea of earth's age.

Dag, you can do this!

Bible not been refuted, eh?

The Bible actually refutes itself in the very first section of the very first book by giving two separate and contradictory accounts of the creation story.

Here is a summary for those too lazy to look it up for themselves.

Genesis 1:1 - 2:4 summary:
God creates the heavens and the earth. He separates the light from the darkness (whatever that means). He creates a dome to separate Earth water from space water. He creates land, fruit and vegetation. God makes 2 lights; the sun for a day light and the moon for night light. He creates water life, bird life, sea monsters and animals (all at once without any type of evolution), and then tells them all to fuck the shit out of each other. God creates humans in their (why is this plural?) image and gives them dominion over the other beasties, and then tells them to bone up a storm too. God tells the humans and animals to help themselves to all the plants, fruits and vegies they like (but makes no mention of eating meat). On the seventh day, God orders a pizza, smokes some weed and plays Xbox all day. These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

Done deal, right!? But wait, there's more...

Genesis 2:4-2:22 summery
On the day that God created the heavens and the earth, back before there were plants, rain and people to work the land, God forms a man from dust on the ground and breathes life into his nostrils. After that, he creates plantlife, the garden of Eden and a tree of knowledge of good and evil. God puts the man in the garden of Eden and tells him not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Then God creates all of the animals and tells the man to name them all. Finally, he creates a woman out of the man's rib.

Can you spot the differences in these two contradictory creation myths?
-The first myth spans 7 days, the second spans one day.
-The plants and animals are created before man in the first myth, and after in the second.
-In the first myth humans are created all at once, in the second the man is made first - the woman second.

Did God forget to proofread?

It is theorized that these two competing creation stories - which were passed from generation to generation through oral tradition before being written down - were both so popular, that the creators of the version of Genesis that ended up in the book that we now call 'the Bible' decided to include both.

Another interesting discussion is how the Bible was assembled from many stories written by many different people over hundreds of years, and even after it was codified, was (and still is) edited and translated and manipulated, which explains its many shifts in mood, tone, and content. If you read the Bible as literature, it is full of some great stories. The stories of David and Lot are juicy. Ecclesiastes was written by a total nihalist and is pretty bad ass. Revelation is fun too, in its own sociopathic way.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

That's great - I might plagiarize you and post that to him. I invited him to the Sift - but I don't think he is willing to face the star chamber.

Some good chops here...

http://www.debate.org/debates/There-is-no-God./2/

The more you're telling him he's wrong, the likelier it is to strengthen his resolve and make him stick to his beliefs. It's one thing for him to be told things which firstly he doesn't know and secondly he thinks he knows but doesn't, and it's another to tell him what you believe and let him come to whatever realization you want him to come to, on his own. Telling someone how something really is without holding a position of authority over them is almost always a lost cause because they'll most likely start to look for, or make up out of whole cloth, reasons and explanations for why you're wrong instead of rationalizing whether or not they themselves have been.

Who cares what he believes? I've stopped trying to convert people, I just look at the fervor with which they believe this bullshit and filter them out of my life accordingly.

I'm not saying if you believe in god, we can't be friends, I'm just saying if you believe in God to a degree that I have to constantly know your shitty faith, we will never have enough in common to get along.

So make a decision, is the debate between the two of you inspiring and educational, or is it just a frustrating experience?

Use the Socratic method. Ask him questions until his blood boils because of the realization that all of his religious nonsense is a hypocritical mess.

I think the better question is, why would you want to convert this guy? As long as people don't use religion as an excuse to be jerks/bigots, I really don't see a problem. I wish I could be religious. Seriously. Believing that after you die, you're going to live forever with all your friends and family? That's awesome. It certainly beats an empty void, and would make death a million times less scary (which is obviously a big reason why people invented religion in the first place). It would also be nice to take all the shitty stuff that happens in your life and just say "well, God has a plan!" instead of getting all depressed about it. Seriously, I'll say it again: I wish I could be religious.

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^The reason I want to convert him is that I feel he's trying to do some real damage to American Kids' education. His latest post for example:

"I'm in DC and I watched busloads of innocent kids being dropped off to go into the "Celebrate Darwin" display tody at the Natural History Museum - sad. Everything they show is refuted in my "50 Facts vs Darwinism" DVD which few will ever see,
Question: Why does finding a monkey bone prove anything other than that wh..."

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I've updated this post with a second conversation.

Terrible bedside manner, dag. Giving the young preacher a link to the lion's den was probably a bad idea.

Dump 'em. Let's say you convert them by "miracle". There'll be 10 to take their place. Let them have their fairy tales. Let them convert who they will. Those free to think for themselves will always choose truth over faith and those brainwashed or weak will always choose to stay blind.

I'd say the most beneficial actions to take towards these people, if you do choose to keep them in your circle of acquaintances, is to be kind and generous towards them. That way whenever they go to bash atheists and how "horrible" we are, they'll always have your kindness and generosity in the back of your head.

I'm telling you to do this because I really am a horrible asshole, so they'd be right about me.

Onward Athiest Soldier, but prepare to be "Defaced" (unfriended). That's the worst that can happen.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

He's got me on the ropes with a merciless pummelling. I don't want to lose my eyes - and I might if I roll them too much and they collapse.

He's started talking about how strong my faith is in my religion - the religion of atheism. I think I'll throw in the towel.

Sorry I'm late, but I figured I'd add something. (Hopefully this is additive, as I think you've attempted to address this in "On Atheism".)

One thing (some) atheists often say is that they don't mind Religion, as long as the religious keep it to themselves - they don't want someone militantly trying to convert them.

What strikes me as ironic is that you're ostensibly both trying to do the same thing - help each other.
You both want the other to "wake up" and realize that they're defending a fallacy, but it comes across as attacking the other viewpoint in order to strengthen your own beliefs - to justify your position to yourself.
Each of you arguing against your own doubt, as it were.