I completely disagree with his definition of what terrorists are. Look at what Israel are doing to the Palestinians:

They've built enormous fences around hundreds of thousands of them, often separating them or isolating the people there from other villages. Arrests, delays and degradation at these checkpoints is commonplace, and this is often just so they can go to work, or visit friends. During special events such as Jewish holidays, the West Bank can be under military closure for more than a week.
http://mideastposts.com/2011/05/02/humiliation-and-degradation-easter-at-qalandiya/

The Israeli's then illegally settle or continue to expand on what is often privately owned Palestinian land.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/21/world/middleeast/21land.html?hp&ex=1164171600&en=2e03da87b76e6581&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Then they burn their olive trees, desecrate their mosque's, beat their children and kill adult civilians.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/204101.html

What can the Palestinians do to fight back? Well pretty much nothing due to the fact Israel receives billions of dollars in military supplies and funding each year from the US Government. The UN criticizes Israel's actions and International law states that expansion of many of the settlements is illegal, however the Palestinians are literally powerless.

Many Palestinians over the years, including women, have decided to blow themselves up in public, often killing many people, children included - these people therefore are labelled terrorists. So I have to ask, which of the actions I've described that the Israeli's/US are involved in against the Palestinians would be considered as moving them more towards a type 1 civilization?

>> ^direpickle:

What's a banksy?


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/8103700/street-artist-banksy-takes-over-simpsons-intro

The British graffiti icon storyboarded the latest intro to the long-running cartoon, which opens with the town of Springfield scrawled in his distinctive tag.

But as the show cuts to the familiar couch scene, the credits take a dark turn — with a minute-long animation showing dozens of Asian sweatshop workers painting scenes for the cartoon in a filthy warehouse filled with rats, human bones and bio-waste.

Kittens are thrown into a wood chipper to create stuffing for Bart Simpson dolls while a chained unicorn collapses as its horn is used to punch holes in Simpsons DVDs.

The extended sequence was apparently inspired by reports that the show outsources the bulk of their animation to a company in South Korea.

Banksy, whose true identity has never been officially confirmed, is renowned for his political views.

The elusive artist employs guerrilla-style tactics to break into locations before leaving his pieces to be found the following morning.

Examples include drawing a life-sized replica of a Guantanamo Bay detainee at Disneyland and stencilling Israel's West Bank barrier.

In 2008 Britain's Mail on Sunday claimed to have unmasked the mystery artist as 36-year-old former Bristol public schoolboy Robin Gunningham.

>> ^MilkmanDan:

I would applaud the girls' efforts and intentions, but the invention itself seems a little underwhelming. They spent time and effort and limited funds to get the electronic parts, but have they ever seen a blind person walk with a cane or asked such a person what would make for a better cane?
The point of the cane is to function as a probe. It isn't held rigidly in one place directly in front of the user, it is tapped or dragged back and forth in an arc in front of them. You don't need a sonar/laser proximity sensor to alert you when you are approaching an obstacle; the cane physically touching the object does that. I don't really understand their hole detection system, again I imagine that simply using the cane to probe out holes or steps down would work just as well if not better.
So it seems to be a cane with electronic circuits that at best provide little benefit at the cost of having to periodically replace batteries, and at worst feeds the user with incorrect information or causes them to become less adept at using the cane as a simple (but effective) physical probe.
I don't really mean to be a downer, but it just doesn't seem particularly practical. Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye, or the report didn't do it justice.
edit for spelling error


I thought the same thing at first, but here's the key difference:
A blind person's "probing" cane/stick does not support weight, the same way an old/handicapped persons cane/walker does. So the probing canes are only good if the blind person is in otherwise good enough physical condition to walk on their own. This invention just merges the probing and walking canes into one cane.

[redacted]

Congratulations! Your comment has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

This achievement has earned you your "Silver Tongue" Level 1 Badge!

Pfft, you totally meant to be a downer >> ^MilkmanDan:

I don't really mean to be a downer...

TLDR.

PS: Both sides are crazy pants. A little bit like this thread.

>> ^bcglorf:

He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived.
He went a touch further initially and characterized all opposition to this girl as hypocrites that extend the courtesy to Israeli and Jewish acts of terrorism and excess. That by extension paints all Israelis as wanting to wipe out the Palestinians, and I do consider that a hateful view and will oppose it as long as it remains untrue. He did later clarify that as too broad though, and my last response had been to Drachen_Jager.
You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on.
And yet you both failed the litmus test. When Drachen_Jager stated his willingness to extend leniency to oppressed peoples, like Hamas and Hezbollah, I pointed back to 1940's Israel and asked if the same standards applied then. Longde declared that to be revisionist history and you've made it clear you consider the Israeli war of independence a terrorist act. I never said anything about Israel's many crimes being justified because of the holocaust. I just stated that when considering the civil war between Jew and Arab in 1940's Palestine, the holocaust absolutely sways me in support of the Jewish minority. All the more so when the entirety of the Arab world decided to join in and attempt to exterminate the Jewish people for the second time in a single decade.
Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state?
Yes. Would you condemn the very establishment of that Jewish state because of those extremists? I certainly am not willing to, and if you are I'd ask if Hamas has then similarly disqualified the Palestinians from the right to a Palestinian state?
For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.
And I can agree whole heartedly with this entire paragraph. We see 100% eye to eye on it. I do differ in going a touch further though and requiring the observation that Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and a great many arab populations in surrounding countries are all as nazi-esque in their racism towards Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah also go further still in being less discriminate in their hatred and use of violence. The only thing holding them back from exterminating all Israeli's is they lack the ability to do it. At least the right wing nuts in Israel like Netanyahu are held back by the will of the moderate Israeli's, because there can be no mistaking that if Netanyahu's kind wished to turn the West bank and Gaza into lifeless rubble they could likely do it inside a week.
I'm perfectly content to condemn Israel for it's crimes and extremists. I will not settle for disproportionate blame being laid on them for all the hate, violence and atrocities befalling the region around them. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who's extremists have arisen from existential threats to their people.

>> ^joedirt:

>> ^therealblankman:
See Islam! Do you see what happens when you let girls learn? They solve problems and achieve wonders.
Or maybe that's the reason you seem so insistent against the whole concept of "Women in school".

Hey dip fuck. Look at Iran or Palestine. I'll bet there are more higher educated women with positions like doctors, etc. then in the US or other western countries. So you can shove your ignorant big talking mouth back to hickistan.


Well, that was certainly uncalled for. Off your meds again?

>> ^therealblankman:

See Islam! Do you see what happens when you let girls learn? They solve problems and achieve wonders.
Or maybe that's the reason you seem so insistent against the whole concept of "Women in school".


Hey dip fuck. Look at Iran or Palestine. I'll bet there are more higher educated women with positions like doctors, etc. then in the US or other western countries. So you can shove your ignorant big talking mouth back to hickistan.

Here is what I wrote above: "I define her opposition as the people on the other side using extrremism and killing to achieve their ends. Perhaps I have defined it too broadly. I certainly don't think it encapsulates all Jews or Isrealis, but I do think it includes the Israeli government and military."

Again, you are putting words in my mouth, unless all Israelis and all Jews use extremism and killing.


>> ^bcglorf:

He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived.
He went a touch further initially and characterized all opposition to this girl as hypocrites that extend the courtesy to Israeli and Jewish acts of terrorism and excess. That by extension paints all Israelis as wanting to wipe out the Palestinians, and I do consider that a hateful view and will oppose it as long as it remains untrue. He did later clarify that as too broad though, and my last response had been to Drachen_Jager.
You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on.
And yet you both failed the litmus test. When Drachen_Jager stated his willingness to extend leniency to oppressed peoples, like Hamas and Hezbollah, I pointed back to 1940's Israel and asked if the same standards applied then. Longde declared that to be revisionist history and you've made it clear you consider the Israeli war of independence a terrorist act. I never said anything about Israel's many crimes being justified because of the holocaust. I just stated that when considering the civil war between Jew and Arab in 1940's Palestine, the holocaust absolutely sways me in support of the Jewish minority. All the more so when the entirety of the Arab world decided to join in and attempt to exterminate the Jewish people for the second time in a single decade.
Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state?
Yes. Would you condemn the very establishment of that Jewish state because of those extremists? I certainly am not willing to, and if you are I'd ask if Hamas has then similarly disqualified the Palestinians from the right to a Palestinian state?
For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.
And I can agree whole heartedly with this entire paragraph. We see 100% eye to eye on it. I do differ in going a touch further though and requiring the observation that Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and a great many arab populations in surrounding countries are all as nazi-esque in their racism towards Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah also go further still in being less discriminate in their hatred and use of violence. The only thing holding them back from exterminating all Israeli's is they lack the ability to do it. At least the right wing nuts in Israel like Netanyahu are held back by the will of the moderate Israeli's, because there can be no mistaking that if Netanyahu's kind wished to turn the West bank and Gaza into lifeless rubble they could likely do it inside a week.
I'm perfectly content to condemn Israel for it's crimes and extremists. I will not settle for disproportionate blame being laid on them for all the hate, violence and atrocities befalling the region around them. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who's extremists have arisen from existential threats to their people.

He merely said that people will not tolerate this woman espousing her hateful and ill conceived views, but we extend that courtesy to the Jews/Israelies who want to wipe out the Palestinians, likewise hateful and ill conceived.

He went a touch further initially and characterized all opposition to this girl as hypocrites that extend the courtesy to Israeli and Jewish acts of terrorism and excess. That by extension paints all Israelis as wanting to wipe out the Palestinians, and I do consider that a hateful view and will oppose it as long as it remains untrue. He did later clarify that as too broad though, and my last response had been to Drachen_Jager.

You've done the instinctive jump (I'm surprised you didn't start waving the holocaust flag sooner tbh) to go on the offensive as if Longde was some jew hating white supremicist when you have nothing, from what he has said, to base that on.

And yet you both failed the litmus test. When Drachen_Jager stated his willingness to extend leniency to oppressed peoples, like Hamas and Hezbollah, I pointed back to 1940's Israel and asked if the same standards applied then. Longde declared that to be revisionist history and you've made it clear you consider the Israeli war of independence a terrorist act. I never said anything about Israel's many crimes being justified because of the holocaust. I just stated that when considering the civil war between Jew and Arab in 1940's Palestine, the holocaust absolutely sways me in support of the Jewish minority. All the more so when the entirety of the Arab world decided to join in and attempt to exterminate the Jewish people for the second time in a single decade.

Would you condemn the extremists who helped establish the Jewish state?

Yes. Would you condemn the very establishment of that Jewish state because of those extremists? I certainly am not willing to, and if you are I'd ask if Hamas has then similarly disqualified the Palestinians from the right to a Palestinian state?

For the record (in case you've actually read this far), I condemn Hammas and Hezbollah for their crimes. I condemn the right wing government of Israel for it's crimes and it's Nazi-esque policies. I condemn any Jew who supports them and wants to see Palestine gone. I condemn Jews who misuse terribly the suffering of those involved in the Holocaust to silence dissent to Israels current facist actions.

And I can agree whole heartedly with this entire paragraph. We see 100% eye to eye on it. I do differ in going a touch further though and requiring the observation that Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and a great many arab populations in surrounding countries are all as nazi-esque in their racism towards Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah also go further still in being less discriminate in their hatred and use of violence. The only thing holding them back from exterminating all Israeli's is they lack the ability to do it. At least the right wing nuts in Israel like Netanyahu are held back by the will of the moderate Israeli's, because there can be no mistaking that if Netanyahu's kind wished to turn the West bank and Gaza into lifeless rubble they could likely do it inside a week.

I'm perfectly content to condemn Israel for it's crimes and extremists. I will not settle for disproportionate blame being laid on them for all the hate, violence and atrocities befalling the region around them. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who's extremists have arisen from existential threats to their people.

Your video, Great invention by Schoolgirls in the West Bank, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

This achievement has earned you your "Pop Star" Level 1 Badge!

Asil Shaar and Nour Alarda, Nablus, West Bank, Palestine

When Asil Shaar and Nour Alarda observed the struggles of sight-impaired neighbors attempting to navigate the hills and war-torn streets of their hometown, Nablus, and find their way around the refugee camp where they lived, they decided to do something about it. They created an obstacle-detecting cane for the blind.

The process wasn’t easy, especially considering how difficult it was to obtain electronic parts such as sensors and circuits in the West Bank. The determined pair made multiple trips to Ramallah, about 45 minutes away and through two military checkpoints, to find the materials they needed to complete the task.

Though previous “laser canes” existed, these models were flawed in that they were unable to detect uneven surfaces or holes in the ground. In contrast, the girls’ design incorporates two infrared sensors into a pine walking stick, one front-facing and one down-facing, to detect both obstacles and drop-offs.

@ponceleon (for a response to your Dark Matter questions see above)

First off, I'd like to thank you for a very interesting discussion. It is through such dialogue that we clarify our thoughts, and your responses have really helped me explore many different ideas.

I'd like to start out by explaining why I responded to your post in the first place. Your initial post called for the end of all religion. It seemed to be a gross overreaction to the clip. You seemed to be equating every single religious person with a fanatic Muslim willing to kill for his beliefs.

You very clearly place a high value on reason and logical thought. My initial purpose in posting, then, was to show you how illogical it is to condemn an entire group of people for the actions of a few individuals. You would not consider it reasonable to call for an end to Democracy simply because some people have started wars in the name of Democracy (see Lawdeedaw's post above). It is just as illogical to call for an end to all religion because some people have committed evil in the name of religion. Likewise, just because Sarah Palin blew some hot air on national TV about fruit flies, it doesn't logically follow that all religious people are against science. Or that they all want to convert you. That's another gross over-generalization. As a refutation, I provide the example of two of the worlds biggest religions--Buddhism and Hinduism--which co-exist peacefully with multiple other religions and do not try impose their teachings on those who don't voluntarily come seeking them.

So that was my original point, basically. Your initial call for an end to religion wasn't logical, reasonable, or even plausible. How could you accomplish it? By force? That would rob you of the moral high ground. By law? In the U.S., at least, you would face the problem that freedom of religion is guaranteed in the Constitution.

Given the improbability of a religious-free world anytime in the near future (almost certainly not our lifetimes) wouldn't it be better to use our intellectual powers for figuring out how to get along? And how to deal humanely with those radicals and fundamentalists who refuse to try to get along or insist on imposing their views on others? Personally, I feel that is a much better use of our time and energy than trying to ban religion outright.

This will be my last post here. I'll let you have the last word on the matter. If you want to continue talking about this or other things, send me a profile reply. However, I'm very busy with work right now and might not be able to reply right away, so I apologize for that.

>> ^ponceleon:

@SGD Ah I think we are coming a bit closer together here, but you are backpeddling a bit.
There is a BIG difference between you telling me that it is MY job as a rational person to disprove the existance of God the Son and the Holy ghost, v. telling me that dark matter is unmeasurable.
You see, Dark Matter is based on actual calculations and rational deliberation which leads scientists to see that something is missing from their model. As it turns out, I'm willing to CONSIDER dark matter as a possibility because it is based on something thought out and observable (though itself it may not be). That said, I would not be surprised at all if it turns out to be bunk. But that's the great part of science, Dark Matter can turn out to be real or not real and NO SCIENTIST is going to FATWAH me for believing on either side. It's exactly as you say.
As for why religion needs to go, well it is exactly for the reason you state: they DO try to force their views on others. When Sarah Palin, champion of the religious nuts in this country, gets up and tells us that fruit fly research is "silly and pointless" I see that as highly dangerous and definitely something that needs to be addressed. Killing and threatening artists. Suicide Bombers, child-abuse cover-ups, intelligent design, Jesus camps, invading the west bank, female oppression, and good christians don't vote for Obama.... all great examples of how "good teachings" of a religion have been cast aside in favor of fear, hate mongering, and irrational behavior.
Religion has forced itself on human culture for all of our history and while some good has come of it, a great portion of the bad in the world can be traced back to someone listening to a magical being in their head (or as I often suspect, saying they do in order to sway uneducated masses).
So in conclusion, I think you are now a lot closer to me in what I mean (though I fall on the other side of the argument when it comes to the usefulness of religion), but I do think you backpedaled a bit. Dark Matter /= Jesus.

@SGD Ah I think we are coming a bit closer together here, but you are backpeddling a bit.

There is a BIG difference between you telling me that it is MY job as a rational person to disprove the existance of God the Son and the Holy ghost, v. telling me that dark matter is unmeasurable.

You see, Dark Matter is based on actual calculations and rational deliberation which leads scientists to see that something is missing from their model. As it turns out, I'm willing to CONSIDER dark matter as a possibility because it is based on something thought out and observable (though itself it may not be). That said, I would not be surprised at all if it turns out to be bunk. But that's the great part of science, Dark Matter can turn out to be real or not real and NO SCIENTIST is going to FATWAH me for believing on either side. It's exactly as you say.

As for why religion needs to go, well it is exactly for the reason you state: they DO try to force their views on others. When Sarah Palin, champion of the religious nuts in this country, gets up and tells us that fruit fly research is "silly and pointless" I see that as highly dangerous and definitely something that needs to be addressed. Killing and threatening artists. Suicide Bombers, child-abuse cover-ups, intelligent design, Jesus camps, invading the west bank, female oppression, and good christians don't vote for Obama.... all great examples of how "good teachings" of a religion have been cast aside in favor of fear, hate mongering, and irrational behavior.

Religion has forced itself on human culture for all of our history and while some good has come of it, a great portion of the bad in the world can be traced back to someone listening to a magical being in their head (or as I often suspect, saying they do in order to sway uneducated masses).

So in conclusion, I think you are now a lot closer to me in what I mean (though I fall on the other side of the argument when it comes to the usefulness of religion), but I do think you backpedaled a bit. Dark Matter /= Jesus.