Ummm.....so Tillman slandering his colleague and Tillman throwing the first punch...ignore that and blame the victim who called Tillman a liar for spreading lies on the senate floor and on the record about his fellow senator while they weren't present to defend themselves? I don't get that at all, both verbally and physically, Tillman was the clear instigator (and a piece of shit).
The rule had nothing to do with his blatant racism and everything to do with the personal insults and the fist fight on the Senate floor that involved numerous senators when it was done. It was to stop Tillman from repeating his personal attacks, not to stop his colleague from defending his own reputation from Tillman's slanderous lies by calling them lies, as I read the record.
Edit: don't take me wrong, I'm not arguing against your contention that some may have said protecting Tillman was the reason for the rule, or even that they meant it, just that, logically, it doesn't make a bit of sense.
I think the rule is proper if they change it to slander, not just apt but unbecoming description, and certainly not a reasonable interpretation of their actions as a public servant. Lies shouldn't be accepted, no matter what lies or about whom....imo.

All that said, I like the idea of calling it the Tillman rule and claiming it was created with the intent of protecting racists from having their public records made public.

@newtboy

Tillman's words incited the incident, but it was his colleague's response, calling him a malicious liar, that started the fight and it was Tillman's ally in the senate who proposed the rule to protect him in the future.

The rule was made to protect Ben Tillman, who, among other things said:

"[We] agreed on on the policy of terrorizing the Negroes at the first opportunity by letting them provoke trouble and then having the whites demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable."

"The action of President Roosevelt in entertaining that nigger will necessitate our killing a thousand niggers in the South before they learn their place again."

"We of the South have never recognized the right of the Negro to govern white men, and we never will. We have never believed him to be the equal of the white man, and we will not submit to his gratifying his lust on our wives and daughters without lynching him. I would to God the last one of them was in Africa and that none of them had ever been brought to our shores."

^--- This, I'd like to point out, is the guy @bobknight33 is effectively siding with. Rules that protect men like that should be followed, according to Bob.

Actually, it was created because a horrendously racist senator that advocated lynching from the Senate floor was maligning a Jr. senator for considering the annexation of the Philippines. The Jr. Senator heard, rushed to the floor, and accused the Sr Senator of telling "willful, malicious, and deliberate lies", and the Sr, Tillman, rose and attacked the younger Jr Senator violently ending in a brawl on the Senate floor.

..so technically, it was created to protect senators from the lies of racists....but it's now being used to protect and hide the racists' lies and actions.

Another rule that's a rule, when a law is routinely not enforced, it becomes legally invalid. This rule has been used once in over 100 years, and consistently ignored for the remainder of it's existence....so if the rules of the Senate are law, and I think they qualify, this one is no longer valid.

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>> ^AeroMechanical:

I haven't seen anything that suggested it was murder, just really poor trigger discipline.


Keep telling yourself that. The medical examiners thought otherwise.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-26-tillman-friendly-fire_N.htm
"The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away."

The medical examiners wanted a criminal investigation, but...
"Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments."

"No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck."

How does one mistake fellow Army Rangers in Army Humvees for enemy when they don't return fire and engage them for 10+ minutes and then get ten yards away from the most recognizable person in the platoon shouting his name and shoot him in the head with a 3 round burst?

... because of "poor trigger discipline"? Yeah, right.

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>> ^Yogi:

Watched the Documentary it was really good. It's amazing to me how no one has paid through their ass for the misuse of this tragedy. I don't understand how this culture can be so callus as to look at lies and deception from the media and lump it in with "Freedom of Speech". It's not, it's deliberate deception and their should be fucking consequences.
Why don't we make that a law? Whenever someone uses the media to knowingly deceive they're put in fucking jail. It's very hard to prove which is a good thing but in this case it's open and fucking shut.


Yea I've been thinking about that recently too. My solution would be to put the jail in outer space. It would be awesome for all parties!

>> ^AeroMechanical:

Yes, but that's exactly what friendly fire is.

No, it's not.


Friendly fire is inadvertent firing towards one's own or otherwise friendly forces while attempting to engage enemy forces, particularly where this results in injury or death. A death resulting from a negligent discharge is not considered friendly fire. Neither is murder, whether premeditated or in the heat of the moment,...

>> ^AeroMechanical:

I believe their rifles fire three shots with each pull of the trigger, so being shot three times doesn't necessarily mean anything.
>> ^marbles:
Army medical examiners concluded Tillman was shot three times in the head from just 10 yards away. Friendly fire? Yeah, right.



It doesn't? It makes it hard to sell the lie that it was an Al-Qaeda ambush.

New documents shed light on Tillman’s death:
“The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described,” a doctor who examined Tillman’s body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
...
Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman’s death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn’t recall details of his actions.

No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
...
It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O’Neal, who was at Tillman’s side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting “Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!” again and again.

I believe their rifles fire three shots with each pull of the trigger, so being shot three times doesn't necessarily mean anything.

>> ^marbles:

Army medical examiners concluded Tillman was shot three times in the head from just 10 yards away. Friendly fire? Yeah, right.

Anderson Cooper apologizes for media complicity in the Tillman cover-up. His apology comes a week before the Tillman documentary is released which exposes how the government and mainstream media used Pat Tillman’s death to promote the war.

Pat Tillman's father to Army investigator: Fuck you... and yours.

Army medical examiners concluded Tillman was shot three times in the head from just 10 yards away. Friendly fire? Yeah, right.

>> ^NordlichReiter:

Interesting how the nation built on Liberty can lie so thoughtlessly.


That really depends on what you mean by "nation" doesn't it? In this case there are two things you could mean, the people, and the government. In this case you had a small section of the government using this death as a way to promote something they felt strongly about, very wrongly I might add. When people found out what was done...outrage and anger followed. Maybe not as much as was deserved but there was still a lot of anger and in some cases not very much surprise.

The thing is Americans know that their government isn't fighting for their interests...and they know they lie to them. So although you could say there should've been a greater reaction I think a film about it a book and everyone you talk to will generally agree with what this movie says. It was a disgrace, it should've never happened.

Not trying to be scolding but we have to make those sorts of distinctions. Such as when someone hates America they could actually hate our governments policies...not the general population.

I've seen the same situation many times. The KKK member who has a handicapped child. The TeaBagger farmer who just lost his house in a flood. The hard working construction worker who hurts his back. The corporate exec who's child's brain tumor isn't covered by the insurance plan. The parent whose child joins the military and gets killed or injured (eg. Pat Tillman, Casey Sheehan). Sadly the human animal just doesn't get it until it happens to themselves.

It's like this little girl. When we see a video of her we all smile and think how cute she is, but do you know how many kids just like her have been killed in Iraq in the last 20 years. THOUSANDS! An for the most part no one gives a shit. Cause it didn't effect them and they can't empathize. Makes me pissed and sad.

*brain

Jon Krakauer has a book entitled Into Thin Air, which gives the compelling account of 8 climbers who were killed on Everest in 1996.

So much played into this tragedy that the elements of nature were playing a secondary role.

(Krakauer's newer book, btw, details the events that lead up to the friendly fire that killed Pat Tillman, and the subsequent coverup that the DoD attempted to implement in response.)

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