Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

You've all been VERY naughty - and get only spankings. Wait - this isn't the Christmas discipline forum I manage - disregard.>> ^ant:

Where are our Christmas presents/gifts on VS, Dag? Oh, we have been naughty?

Welcome to the Sift!

And immediately, siftbot spanks you. That, my friend, is how it goes here!

Good luck on getting sifted to the front page.

(you can vote on your vid, you know.)

To Longde,
Clearly, you have never been abused in any way shape or form, which is very fortunate for you. I, however, was abused by my father for over a decade. My father used all 3 types of abuse on me; physical, emotional, and sexual. Of these 3, the emotional abuse and the beatings I took (mostly with a belt) are the ones that are still with me to this day, almost 10 years later. I understand spanking your child, this is how they learn mistakes. However, what this man did and what my father did goes above and beyond punishment. This IS abuse. When you are hit so many times with a belt that it rips your skin open, its abuse. When you are hit with a belt so many times that it leaves scars on your body for the rest of your life, it is abuse. Do not think that you know the facts of abuse when you have never been abused. I would like you to think of the child in this video as your mother or your sister or your daughter...would you be okay with it than? And if you are okay with it, I would venture to guess that you will be locked up someday for assault of abuse.

No worries. I understand that anyone who gets worked up over this issue cares about kids. Thanks for taking the time to make your position more clear.

In reply to this comment by garmachi:
Thank you for taking the time to defend your position on the spanking issue so well. You and I don't agree, but after reading some of the comments on this girl's youtube channel, our conversation today reinforces in my mind what a strong and mature community the Sift can be. If you really want to peel back the scab on humanity and see something horrible, spend about ten minutes in any comments thread over there.

Also, I hope none of my remarks upset you; I've been known to go a bit heavy on the sarcasm at times.

Cheers!

Thank you for taking the time to defend your position on the spanking issue so well. You and I don't agree, but after reading some of the comments on this girl's youtube channel, our conversation today reinforces in my mind what a strong and mature community the Sift can be. If you really want to peel back the scab on humanity and see something horrible, spend about ten minutes in any comments thread over there.

Also, I hope none of my remarks upset you; I've been known to go a bit heavy on the sarcasm at times.

Cheers!

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

"She has had ataxic cerebral palsy from birth that led her to a passion for technology, which was strictly forbidden by her father's backwards views."
What do you mean 'backwards views' she used that technology to upload this video to YouTube, thus proving his position correct right? I mean the technology he wanted to forbid was the very thing that will (likely) lead to his downfall.


Just to clarify, that was the description from the original video, written by the girl who was being spanked (I believe she was a teen when this video was taken, and is now in her twenties).

But yes, I agree, it will likely lead to his downfall. Which has led to things like this: http://i.imgur.com/J6Qg0.jpg

>> ^longde:

I don't count a comedian as an authority on something so serious, but would love to see some scientific study on the effectiveness of spanking.



Longde: I am at work so I should be doing other stuff and haven't given this a thorough read through, but this may be what you're looking for: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=RbpT9Ln5WZMC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=is+corporal+punishment+effective&ots=rvL1wmQQhz&sig=3DrEF-Ip_6b8OAOuH9ZL9RxWU
aw#v=onepage&q=is%20corporal%20punishment%20effective&f=false

I also found a couple papers, as well but I don't know if you have access to journals; if you do let me know and I will go track them down.

@Duckman33 I'm sure they wouldn't mind the wimp label in this case .

My wife and I discussed discipline when we had our child. We discussed our childhoods and the ways we were punished. She came from a much less authoritarian household than me. We actually decided against spanking. So I mete out timeouts and revoked privileges as punishments. But it was our decision. I deeply resent people trying to tell me how to raise my child, if my child is not being harmed.

I get that in your case spanking didn't work. I think it was somewhat effective in my case. There were times with I hesitated breaking the rules because I thought more about the punishment than any principles.

I don't count a comedian as an authority on something so serious, but would love to see some scientific study on the effectiveness of spanking.

>> ^longde:

@Yogi, not saying your spankings were as bad as this girl's, but do you think they were abuse?


Is it abuse to stifle someone? To make sure they shut the hell up and just do the menial bullshit that people believe will make them better at life? I think it's abusive for it to go from me being bad to being beaten without anything in between yes. There was no talking, no explanation...nothing. And furthermore it never worked, I would forget about it the next day and go on doing what I was doing before.

That to me is the greatest crime...if a tactic does not work you have to change your thinking. When people don't do that I severely disrespect them. They're stupid and pathetic and they hold onto disproved theories like children.

Like Louis CK says, it doesn't fucking work...so there's no reason to do it at all. You do something that consistently doesn't work you just shouldn't have kids.

@Yogi, not saying your spankings were as bad as this girl's, but do you think they were abuse?

@garmachi

1. I must confess I don't know the first thing about disciplining a dog, but I think there are things I would do to discipline a dog that I would not dare do to to a child and vice versa.

2. Yes, why not, as an option for criminal punishment? Certainly more humane than sending a person to jail or prison.

I get your analogies, but I don't agree with your point. I don't have to tell you that the child/parent relationship is widely different than that of worker/boss, dog/owner. And the way we discipline children is similarly unique. Part of this is because of the way that children learn and develop. Part of it is because of the special responsibility and rights of parents.

For stealing (as this girl alegedly did), 18 whaps with a belt does not cross the line, IMO. Two reasons:

1) I think stealing is serious, and if this was not the first time (as implied by the video), it makes it even worse. That warrants a severe punishment.
2) I just don't see this spanking as overly harsh, probably because I got similar as a child. Belt on clothed skin is painful and loud, but this guy isn't using his fists or cracking bones. However, only this girl or parents know how hard he hit.

Is this the most effective punishment? Probably not. I would have taken the computer away, which would probably have elicited the same or louder yells from the girl.

@carneval @garmachi
My metric: causing lasting emotional damage
hit by a belt.....so many times that you have psychological trauma which lasts for the rest of your life

Seriously, what is "emotional damage" or "psychological trauma"? To me, these terms are rather soft to be condemning a father over.

Is it deep resentment? It's evident the girl feels a great deal of resentment towards her father that no sane parent would want. But lots of people feel resentment towards their parents for many reasons. That doesn't make their parents abusers.

Is it that the girl yells for them to stop or in pain? Well, spanking is painful; that's the point. You would expect someone to yell in pain if they are getting spanked, or to want the spanking stopped. Kids don't like to be punished and kids yell and beg even when non-spanking punishments are administered.

In fact, kids think the world will end when you punish them in any significant way.How do you distinguish that state of mind from emotional scarring, emotional damage, or psychological trauma?

I guess I should have called child protective services on the mother I saw in the mall whose kid was screaming over not getting some trinket. Or the parents in the mall who spanked their kid for acting out. My god the abusers are everywhere!

Then is getting hit by a belt fifty times abuse.......?

That's the question I have been asking. Where is the line, and who gets to draw it? In a society where you have witch hunts over some nebulous term "abuse", a clear line is necessary. For the record, the girl was hit 18 times.