Evolution is just another item in the list of fact we atheists can use to disprove religion, since according to pretty much every religion around, evolution is not real, even though it's a PROVEN fact, studied, analyzed and even used in several fields of science on a practical level, to the point of exhaustion.

It's all you have, and we have to define what we're talking about when you say evolution, because there is microevolution and macroevolution. The difference between them is, one has been observed and one hasn't.

But fossil species remain unchanged throughout most of their history and the record fails to contain a single example of a significant transition.

Science v.208 1980 p.716
DS Woodroff U. of CA, SD

In fact, the fossil record does not convincingly document a single transition from one species to another.

New Evolutionary Timetable p.95
SM Stanley, Johns Hopkins

The theoretically primitive type eludes our grasp; our faith postulates its existence but the type fails to materialize.

Plant life through the ages p.561
AC Seward, Cambridge

Are you actually stupid enough (and I do believe you are) to think there were no atheists before Darwin came around, or to mix atheism and darwinism?

Of course there were atheists around before darwin, but they had no basis for a religion without a creation story.

"Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented."

Provine William B., [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], "Darwin Day" website, University of Tennessee Knoxville, 1998.

"Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent."

Provine, William B. [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], ", "Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life", Abstract of Will Provine's 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address.

"Dr. Gray goes further. He says, `The proposition that the things and events in nature were not designed to be so, if logically carried out, is doubtless tantamount to atheism.' Again, `To us, a fortuitous Cosmos is simply inconceivable. The alternative is a designed Cosmos... If Mr. Darwin believes that the events which he supposes to have occurred and the results we behold around us were undirected and undesigned; or if the physicist believes that the natural forces to which he refers phenomena are uncaused and undirected, no argument is needed to show that such belief is atheistic.' We have thus arrived at the answer to our question, What is Darwinism? It is Atheism. This does not mean, as before said, that Mr. Darwin himself and all who adopt his views are atheists; but it means that his theory is atheistic, that the exclusion of design from nature is, as Dr. Gray says, tantamount to atheism."

Hodge, Charles [late Professor of Theology, Princeton Theological Seminary, USA], in Livingstone D.N., eds., "What Is Darwinism?", 1994, reprint, p.156

"The more one studies palaeontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which it is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion."

More, Louis T. [late Professor of Physics, University of Cincinnati, USA], "The Dogma of Evolution," Princeton University Press: Princeton NJ, 1925, Second Printing, p.160.

"The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology, and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on an unproved theory-is it then a science or a faith? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation-both are concepts which believers know to be true but neither, up to the present, has been capable of proof"

Matthews, L. Harrison [British biologist and Fellow of the Royal Society], "Introduction", Darwin C.R., "The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection," J. M. Dent & Sons: London, 1976, pp.x,xi, in Ankerberg J.* & Weldon J.*, "Rational Inquiry & the Force of Scientific Data: Are New Horizons Emerging?," in Moreland J.P., ed., "The Creation Hypothesis: Scientific Evidence for an Intelligent Designer," InterVarsity Press: Downers Grove IL., 1994, p.275.



>> ^EMPIRE:
shinnyblurry, you are so fucking ignorant it actually hurts my eyes to read your comments.
I also love how your "atheist creation" history is somehow mixed with darwinism, which just proves how much of an ignorant you are.
Evolution is just another item in the list of fact we atheists can use to disprove religion, since according to pretty much every religion around, evolution is not real, even though it's a PROVEN fact, studied, analyzed and even used in several fields of science on a practical level, to the point of exhaustion.
Are you actually stupid enough (and I do believe you are) to think there were no atheists before Darwin came around, or to mix atheism and darwinism?

I wouldn't be surprised if all that is true. Why not? Just about everyone was a professed Christian back then, and church leaders held a lot of sway, so why shouldn't more than half the founding fathers have seminary degrees? Jefferson certainly believed in Jesus, if not the bible. Just from a historical perspective, this is a great sift. If it's also lies, then it's a bit less interesting to me.

"there is not one death and resurrection deity before christ"
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...
i am sorry sir,your inability to know your own religious history negates you from participating in any further discussion pertaining to religious history.
the pantheon of death and resurrection deities BEFORE christ is legion.

and this man is representing a seminary?../facepalm

they are absolutely prime fodder for destructive ideologies.

but i've seen mentally ill atheists take after their bosses with machetes after watching too much anime. i've seen mentally atheists flip out while watching eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.

like at @GenjiKilpatrick said, it usually takes a catalyst for mental illness to turn into violence. but that catalyst doesn't HAVE to be religion. and in the absence of religion something else takes its place.

religions aren't something invented out of thin air. they have existed in every culture i can think of. most of them are really really similar. in the more ancient ones you can trace their dogma to serving an actual purpose benefiting human survival in the region (see cow worshipping hindis, or desert dwelling religions abstinence from pork). they obviously serve a purpose. and they change and evolve over time.

of the billions and billions of devout people throughout time how many of them have brutally slaughtered their children? i know you can list several. but thats out of BILLIONS. i'm not seeking to diminish the atrocities committed in the name of religion. i'm saying correlation does not = causation.

i'll wager my paycheck that there were warning signs leading up to this event. and i'll also wager my paycheck that the people who saw the warning signs were uneducated (about mental disorders) and i'll equipped and scared. declaring religion the cause of these kinds of horror stories doesn't lend itself to prevention very well. perhaps we need to take a better look at our mental health apparatus and not-nearly-adequate outreach, education and support system.

one thing i do think churches could do (and i know many churches that have) is adopt church counseling programs.. staffed by actual trained psychologists and counselors, not seminary graduates. to treat their members and give families an accessible, trusted place to turn to when they start seeing some destructive warning signs.

>> ^Deano:

>> ^campionidelmondo:
Crazy people often do more violent things than eat skittles. I don't see the connection between her crazy actions and religion. Linking this to religion is just like linking school shootings to violent video games. No, nothing that's being mass consumed drove this person from being the nice neighbour to slaughtering people. Stop looking for the fault in the things you don't like and accept the fact that some people are just crazy.

Of course there are connections. Just look at Islam. Christianity isn't as bad but people kill and maim others based on their reading of the Bible.
There's always the "just crazy" view. And I accept that to an extent. But I suspect people like that are prime fodder for destructive ideologies and supernatural thinking.
And she had access to a well established cult that served to radicalise her to a point where her family were no longer physically safe.

--> @kceaton1
--> @peggedbea

The only reason I upvote these is that I think it's good for discourse. It's more useful for the lurkers on this site than really the involved members. I knew I would be bringing up a very neutral standpoint as I am on the fence; especially, recently as more biological evidence has direct implications on who you may be later in life. That is VERY important to remember for everyone reading. You have to remember that your brain collects and stores information and then processes it through "filters" before it is distilled into what you would say. Biologically you may be far more likely to be an atheist than a believer (the study makes no distinction religion wise; so they are talking about Islam, Christianity, Norse, Greek, Roman, Buddhist, Hinduism, etc...).

We need a table that we can (we, as in, the religious versus non-theist) talk at. More importantly logical minds and compassion MUST prevail for society to remain intact. If Richard Dawkins (maybe I'm thinking of Hitchens) really can't talk with creationists then he is as much a problem as the creationists themselves (of course one of these parties ARE correct, but the lack of civility is extremely annoying--from both sides).

If you want others to learn sometimes you need to act just like Mormon, Catholic, Evangelical, missionaries. You must expect the vitriol and swearing that usually comes out as highly defensive "maneuvering" or hate; the same that the missionaries get day in and day out. Sorry, "my brethren", but answering the door to purposefully create an unnecessary rude or hateful situation comes off as hate/bigotry speech or dismissive attitudes which is just as bad. This is morally corrupt behavior in my eyes. I suggest answering the door and being able to identify to them issues you have strongly opposed views of and why compared to what they do and about what they say. You have to hope, in this day of the Internet, that people will take ONE aspect of what you said and learn more about it.

I had Mormon seminary teachers that taught creationism, but creationism is extremely limited in acceptance within the Mormon church. For crying out loud BYU (Mormon based university for those that don't know; just south of Salt Lake City) accepts evolution WITHOUT ANY hesitation. They are very active in the sciences as well which is why they do believe; furthermore they are huge researchers when it comes to genealogy which eventually loops into evolution. In many situations the Bible is a work of allegory and followers that take it literal are the uneducated Mormons; even unto their own religion.

So when I have these seminary teachers it truly makes me wonder how they got to their position as they seem to follow their own set of tenets which ends up creating Mormons like Glenn Beck who literally don't stand for church beliefs as I knew them (and again why hasn't he been excommunicated--this actually bothers me a lot as he only hurts the churches standing; which is poor to begin with and is nothing like the Mormons I know). Science was always taught to be incredibly important; if not the most important as it was a way to "uncover even more of Gods truths"; plus it is the applicable "science". That is that it gives us our modern day of living and quality of life (like airplanes, microwaves, TV, energy, etc...). I may not believe in any religion now. But, I appreciate that sentiment; as I think it's a very healthy objectivity to have if in a religion: adaptability.

/ I have to agree somewhat with @gwiz665 as religion (like all things) from an atheists vantage point looks a lot like fear manipulation. I love the Golden Rule as it truly does incorporate perhaps the easiest summary of what it is to be good. But, I know religious people use this to their own ends, including what we see in Libya or on Fox News. To them, people and their beliefs are a joke and they abuse it. It often makes me wonder if these CEOs are truly religious (the ones that say they are) or just using it as a gateway--who knows. Which goes back to my first point. It's entirely possible that we as a species have a tendency to vote "sociopathic" or likewise people into office as they themselves, much like drug seeking personalities (like bi-polar) seek out these positions. The abuse of these positions are partially hard wired into their makeup. All this means is that we must be more diligent. We've come too far as atheists and the religious to let this civilization slip away out of our hands.

//If this is tl;dr, to you, go watch a monkey flinging poop on youtube.

>> ^entr0py:

>> ^Kofi:
Please correct the descriptions. Huckabee clearly said DOCTOR LaHaye. Show some respect.

Only if you think a Doctor of Ministry title granted by a seminary deserves respect. Tom Cruise may be a Doctor of thetan negation. But that wouldn't make me respect him more.

Wooooosh!

>> ^Kofi:

Please correct the descriptions. Huckabee clearly said DOCTOR LaHaye. Show some respect.


Only if you think a Doctor of Ministry title granted by a seminary deserves respect. Tom Cruise may be a Doctor of thetan negation. But that wouldn't make me respect him more.

>> ^kceaton1:I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have no idea what "Mormon bible" really means. Since I don't believe in that one or the one with extra action with angels or the one with unicorns or the one with "x^n"... There are A LOT of bibles. Which church is the TRUE church; please enlighten me so I may rip that ONE to shreds. I'm sorry that my "Christianity"™ is not good enough for you.
As to the rest... Go ahead and link every direct observation about the Devil and Hell. It's different in each bible as well. Keep going I can't dig a grave any faster than you are already. BTW, the "Ten Commandments" are old school. So do you follow the New Testament or do you pick and choose what to like when it suites you.
I looked at my religion and others discretely and with observation and found the contradictory fallacies, logical arguments that fail, and the diversity of books, translations, and the number of religions to be enough to stop "divinity" in it's tracks for me.
You've yet to show me any logical reason to follow, somewhere I messed up, or otherwise. You are purely on the defensive. If I may say so, you need to take a hard look at religion is giving you. What would happen if you shut it down, for argument's sake? Would your life, your actions dramatically shift? All I have seen, for now, is by rote memorization quotes or otherwise I learned in seminary or Sunday school. Some of it is different of course, but I guarantee that the majority is the same.
Do you think all people that have chosen to forgo there faith and live a moral life without the fear of an afterlife reprisal all did so because they're Mormon? The only commonality we share is that we chose to question those in authority and piece things together ourselves; as we've been all lied to, which was the best reason to question in the first place.
This will be the last of my responses as I think it is on your shoulders now to logically come to your own conclusion; if you think faith/belief are the only key factors then why preach, as you will never be able to open any eyes with platitudes. If you try to defend again you will only repeat what you've already said.



Whoa there little fella. First of all, you've been asking elementry questions about the nature of God, which presupposes in our discussion that He does in fact exist. All I did was try to answer them. You gave the impression that perhaps you believed in *something*. Which Church is the true church? That would be the Body of Christ my friend. There is no institution which has exclusive rights on Christianity. This is the first fallacy of the Mormon church who has the believe they are the only true church, otherwise their "updates" would be exposed for the fraud they are.

Second, what is this that I don't understand what the Mormon bible means? Isn't that the book of Mormon? What am I not understanding? Jump to conclusions much? The true bible is the one the disciples of Christ wrote, which is the New Testament. There have been many different translations, but essentially they all say pretty much the same thing with the same quotes. The major ones which differ are funnily enough, the Mormon version and the Jehovah Witness version. These cults both started up within the last 200 years and pervert the teachings of Christ to their core. They both deny Christs divinity, with the JWs claiming Jesus was an angel, and the mormons claiming Jesus was the first creature, but not divine. As we know from the bible, anything which denies the divinity of Christ is in the spirit of the antichrist. Meaning, Mormonism by definition is a satanic religion. Worshipping the God of Mormonism is the same as worshipping Satan.

Third, you should really do some real research and gain some understanding before you just go off the cuff. The Old Testament is the original bible, in which is the wisdom of the Lord, and the prophecies which predict the coming of Christ. Christ was a jew. The Old Tesament was His bible, and also the bible of the early disciples. It isn't a matter of picking and choosing. A true Christian believes in both. Christ told us that the ten commandments are still valid, and that he was not there to overthrow the law, but to fulfill it.

Look, I'm sorry you had to grow up Mormon, but I can tell you that your upbringing didn't prepare you for this conversation. You don't seem to know even elementry conceptions about who God is, and what the bible says. For you to just turn your vitriol on me, someone who tried to answer your questions, shows your profound lack of maturity. You're going way out of your way to be as callous and insulting about it as possible. And regards to your purile question, I know what it's like to live without faith. Unlike you, I wasn't indoctrinated; for most of my life I was agnostic. I came to God independently, without religion. From there I followed God to Christianity. If you want to talk about shredding something, I think it should be your bad attitude problem. Good luck and God Bless.

@shinyblurry

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have no idea what "Mormon bible" really means. Since I don't believe in that one or the one with extra action with angels or the one with unicorns or the one with "x^n"... There are A LOT of bibles. Which church is the TRUE church; please enlighten me so I may rip that ONE to shreds. I'm sorry that my "Christianity"™ is not good enough for you.

As to the rest... Go ahead and link every direct observation about the Devil and Hell. It's different in each bible as well. Keep going I can't dig a grave any faster than you are already. BTW, the "Ten Commandments" are old school. So do you follow the New Testament or do you pick and choose what to like when it suites you.

I looked at my religion and others discretely and with observation and found the contradictory fallacies, logical arguments that fail, and the diversity of books, translations, and the number of religions to be enough to stop "divinity" in it's tracks for me.

You've yet to show me any logical reason to follow, somewhere I messed up, or otherwise. You are purely on the defensive. If I may say so, you need to take a hard look at religion is giving you. What would happen if you shut it down, for argument's sake? Would your life, your actions dramatically shift? All I have seen, for now, is by rote memorization quotes or otherwise I learned in seminary or Sunday school. Some of it is different of course, but I guarantee that the majority is the same.

Do you think all people that have chosen to forgo there faith and live a moral life without the fear of an afterlife reprisal all did so because they're Mormon? The only commonality we share is that we chose to question those in authority and piece things together ourselves; as we've been all lied to, which was the best reason to question in the first place.

This will be the last of my responses as I think it is on your shoulders now to logically come to your own conclusion; if you think faith/belief are the only key factors then why preach, as you will never be able to open any eyes with platitudes. If you try to defend again you will only repeat what you've already said.

For the 50's that is amazing. I wouldn't be able to find that kind of sermon on a modern televangelism "show". Nor, did I receive anything as blunt and articulate in all my years going to Sunday school and seminary (10-12 years worth people).

oh fuck it.
i'll throw in also:
1.grew up with an irrational fear of men and authority due to my father being extremely strict.yet he remains one of the most amazing people i have ever encountered.my life has been less since his passing.
2.in high school i was always the guy who protected the weaker from bullies and got in a lot of trouble doing but i dont regret any of that.
3.did so much blotter acid in high school that i am now strichnine(sp?) sensitive and now it just turns me into one big cramp.
4.did a tour in the navy and had the bright idea to get a free lift to spain upon discharge.couldnt find any work yet still stayed and spent all my money,had to panhandle in the airport to get the money to get back to the states.
5.while i am fantastic at starting projects i rarely finish them.dropped out of college three times and left seminary school after less then a month.though i did get my propulsion engineering degree it was from the navy,dont think that counts and i hate math.
6.while i am not the prettiest man i have always been able to date far above my league.dated 2 porn stars and quite a few you men here may have seen in your favorite nudey mag.
7.in my 20's i traveled around DJ'in for titty bars,and yes,i dated many of them also.
8.started writing poetry,bad poetry, when i was 7.i still think my poetry is bad.
9.was raised episcopalian but left the church at 14 when father ryan could not answer my questions in any sunbstansive way.
10.in my late 20's i married a beautiful abusive woman who would burn the bottoms of my feet so i would not fall asleep while she was screaming at me in a drunken blackout.i withstood this abuse for 3 years,which was constant,until i decided enough was enough and walked out leaving her everything.until this moment i had never realized just how passive aggressive and fearful i actually was.i actually give her credit for freeing me.
11.in my early 30's some friends introduced me to exstasy.while the drug was not something i indulged in for long i fell in love with the whole scene and traveled the raves for about 3 years and every now again i will participate but the things i saw and learned live with me still.
12,took a road trip with some friends from chicago(where i was living at the time)to san diego.after a drug induced crazy weekend they left me in a pool of my own vomit and went back to chicago.needless to say we are no longer friends,but san diego was nice,so i stayed awhile.
13.did a midnight move out when i lived in lauderdale,left everything.on the drive to tampa the rotor arm in my car snapped in alligator alley.i left it and signed the title over to a clerk at a chevron in naples because she said her car was dead.3 dollar part would have fixed my car.
14.hitch-hiked from providence to phillie with my best friend from childhood.think we were 16.the trip took us almost a week and we dropped between us 33 hits of acid.that was fun calling your dad to tell him you are in phillie and not to worry while tripping balls.
15.stole a car in my teens to save my friends girlfriend from her crazy ex boyfriend.we didnt even have our licenses yet.
16.music is everything to me.i am not a purist nor an elitist.if it speaks to me and my mood at the time i will love it.
17.i can be argumentative just for the sake of being contrary.i may even agree with your point but will interject a contrary view just to better understand the subject.
18.have no patience for egotistical lazy thinkers and respond accordingly.
19.over the years i have come to realize that the more i think i am understanding something the larger my ignorance seems to grow.this is frustrating as it is exciting.
20.while i do not subscribe to a religion.in fact i am vehemently anti-religious.i am a man of faith.closest definition would be gnostic-christian but i also subscribe to kabballah.
21.i consume far too much media and many times do not give a proper alottment of time to process all that information due to my adult a.d.d.
22.i have found teaching to be my hidden passion and hope for an opportunity soon to practice that passion once again.
23.i live by a code of :honesty,open-ness and respect.i am rarely offended because i never let anyone dictate how i should feel about myself.
24.i am most likely the most opinionated person you know but i always listen to what you have to say.
25.i dont regret anything that i have done,seen or experienced because i would not be who i am today.

i find the people on the sift fascinating.

this sounds fascinating "pre-colombian psychoacoustical whistling vessels". What is it?

In reply to this comment by laura:
^hey Renato ~ I grew up as a missionary's daughter in Campinas, S.P. Brasil! (am agnostic now, for the record) Hope to go back to south america some day. As an MK, from the ages of 8-16 my family ran an orphanage, a Baptist seminary, and my Dad flew a Cessna back and forth into Matto Grosso and Minas Gerais "preaching to the indians". (I went w/ him a few times) I went to EAC, then when we returned to the U.S. I hopped around from Michigan, Texas, Alabama in high school.
I had two beautiful kids during my brief stint (4 years) as the wife of an abusive dude who happened to be in the U.S. Marine Corps. (So I know what military family life is like, big time.)
Upon getting out of that mess, I served as the live-in caretaker to a disabled retired psychotherapist. That lasted about 4 years, and was quite an interesting experience which I will not elaborate on here...suffice it to say that I ended up moving to Silver City, NM with said person and meeting the man of my dreams less than a year upon arriving. I have started and stopped my college education more times than I can count along the way, and still haven't finished! (Was headed for medical school!)
With that, I am currently homeschooling my son, helping my hubby with his business (link on my profile page) making reproductions of pre-colombian psychoacoustical whistling vessels, sewing/designing clothes (which is my passion), gardening, and hanging out on the sift!
You are all awesome, and I enjoy your comments!

1. I once saved the Pink Ladies from certain squishamidge on the stage of a “Grease” production in high school by grabbing the falling scenery.
2. My wiggling fingers holding up a scenery panel were once the star of a “Grease” production in high school.
3. I have had a severed chicken foot thrown through my bedroom window by Gypsies living next door to me in Brasil.
4. I love being a mother.
5. My first car was a government auction white ‘80s-ish Ford pickup with a nice bright reflective stripe down the side which could 0-45 in two minutes.
6. I got slapped awake in math class once by a guy who bragged about having shaken the hands of each person as they boarded the Challenger before it blew up.
7. Whatever ironical force controls destiny has shown me that I am NOT going to medical school.
8. I’ve had reconstructive surgery on the left side of my face due to an unprovoked fist.
9. My exact birthday is listed on my husband’s discharge papers from the Army when he retired and I didn’t know it until a year into our marriage.
10. My husband’s ex-wife dated a guy who also dated Stevie Nicks.
11. All of the most interesting things about me are things I don’t have the guts to share on video sift.
12. I have a bright red “V” birthmark between my eyes on my forehead that turns purple when I‘m mad.
13. From second grade through 9th grade I went to school with the same 8 people in my class, 200 in the whole school K-12 and my closest friends are still them, almost 20 years later.
14. When I’m dead, you can visit me in Scottsdale, AZ any time…I will be there in a Dewar chamber, signed and done.
15. I have walked away from every material thing I owned at least three times.
16. I once assembled Nokia keypads in a factory and got to know some interesting people there.
17. I have many open opportunities to visit/do some awesome things that some people would die for, yet I prefer to stay at home.
18. My secret alternative “paths my life could have taken” includes having no ties to anyone and being a stripper.
19. I have no idea how big a size EEE shoe is, I’ve never seen one.
20. My ancestors were Vikings.
21. One of my best childhood friends was a girl who lived in a “cardboard box” down the hill from the seminary I lived in, who I used to play Barbies with.
22. I am addicted to understanding other people’s realities.
23. I will hug anyone.
24. My first conscious memory is noticing the wind.
25. I love the people on VideoSift.

Short answer - Canadian universities are WAY younger than those in the States, so we adopted the 'classic' European terminology. I mean, U of T was founded in 1827 (yeah, guess where I graduated from), and there may be some older universities in Canada (I don't know which), but probably not as old as, say, Harvard.

>> ^Sarzy:
I've got a question which is semi-related to the topic at hand: what's the deal with the terms college and university being seemingly interchangeable in the states? In Canada, college and university are two different things (college is generally a one or two year program in which you learn a trade, whereas university is a three or four year deal in which you learn something a bit more abstract (ie. political science, english, physics, etc.). Is this not the case in the U.S.?


Yeah, American terminology like that bothers me - where's the UNIVERSITY GRAD option???

Anyway, enough people were annoyed by this like us to make a small essay on the topic - the Canadian system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College#Canada

And here's the bit about Amerika
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College#The_origin_of_the_U.S._usage

The founders of the first institutions of higher education in the United States were graduates of the University of Oxford and the University of Cambridge. The small institutions they founded would not have seemed to them like universities — they were tiny and did not offer the higher degrees in medicine and theology. Furthermore, they were not composed of several small colleges. Instead, the new institutions felt like the Oxford and Cambridge colleges they were used to — small communities, housing and feeding their students, with instruction from residential tutors (as in the United Kingdom, described above). When the first students came to be graduated, these "colleges" assumed the right to confer degrees upon them, usually with authority -- for example, the College of William and Mary has a Royal Charter from the British monarchy allowing it to confer degrees while Dartmouth College has a charter permitting it to award degrees "as are usually granted in either of the universities, or any other college in our realm of Great Britain."

Contrast this with Europe, where only universities could grant degrees. The leaders of Harvard College (which granted America's first degrees in 1642) might have thought of their college as the first of many residential colleges which would grow up into a New Cambridge university. However, over time, few new colleges were founded there, and Harvard grew and added higher faculties. Eventually, it changed its title to university, but the term "college" had stuck and "colleges" have arisen across the United States.

Eventually, several prominent colleges/universities were started to train Christian ministers. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Brown all started to train preachers in the subjects of Bible and theology. However, now these universities teach theology as a more academic than ministerial discipline.

With the rise of Christian education, renowned seminaries and Bible colleges have continued the original purpose of these universities. Criswell College and Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas; Southern Seminary in Louisville; Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois; and Wheaton College and Graduate School in Wheaton, Illinois are just a few of the institutions that have influenced higher education in Theology in Philosophy to this day.

In U.S. usage, the word "college" embodies not only a particular type of school, but has historically been used to refer to the general concept of higher education when it is not necessary to specify a school, as in "going to college" or "college savings accounts" offered by banks. "University" is sometimes used in such contexts by Americans who wish to avoid ambiguity, for example in the context of Internet message boards where the reader hail from a different English speaking country.

Hey Laura!
I´m absolutely impressed by your life´s history.
if at anytime it becomes a book or film, let me know
grande abraço
renato

In reply to this comment by laura:
^hey Renato ~ I grew up as a missionary's daughter in Campinas, S.P. Brasil! Hope to go back some day. As such, from the ages of 8-16 my family ran an orphanage, a Baptist seminary, and my Dad flew a Cessna back and forth into Matto Grosso and Minas Gerais "preaching to the indians". (I went w/ him a few times) I went to EAC, then when we returned to the U.S. I hopped around from Michigan, Texas, Alabama in high school.
I had two beautiful kids during my brief stint (4 years) as the wife of an abusive dude who happened to be in the U.S. Marine Corps. (So I know what military family life is like, big time.)
Upon getting out of that mess, I served as the live-in caretaker to a disabled retired psychotherapist. That lasted about 4 years, and was quite an interesting experience which I will not elaborate on here...suffice it to say that I ended up moving to Silver City, NM with said person and meeting the man of my dreams less than a year upon arriving. I have started and stopped my college education more times than I can count along the way, and still haven't finished! (Was headed for medical school!)
With that, I am currently homeschooling my son, helping my hubby with his business (link on my profile page) making reproductions of pre-colombian psychoacoustical whistling vessels, sewing/designing clothes (which is my passion), gardening, and hanging out on the sift!
You are all awesome, and I enjoy your comments!