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Katie Porter On IRS Direct File

newtboy says...

2 things….

1. If you call the IRS today you get an operator, not an agent or accountant, and their advice is largely guessing…their unprofessional unpaid advice does not remove your responsibility to do your taxes correctly…it wouldn’t if they were an agent because they don’t have access to 100% of your financial records to make an informed suggestion and they aren’t retained by you for the advice. Republicans fought to keep from hiring more agents to answer phones by claiming they would be armed Jack booted thugs breaking into your home with military force instead of accountants sitting in offices waiting to help citizens. Now you whine.

2. The fox already watches the hen house. This is just letting them tell you what your taxes are instead of making you do the math and them telling you you are wrong. They already do this calculation, and use it to determine if you did your taxes correctly. (Side note- I know this personally because I often get notification I have over estimated my taxes by a minor amount and they have revised my refund accordingly.)

Wouldn’t it be nicer if they just told you what you owe and give you the opportunity to claim they’re wrong instead of making you take a math test first then doing the exact same thing?

Remember, it was Trump’s number one promise on the campaign trail, he would simplify taxes day one so you could do them on a 3x5 card. He never even tried, and taxes became more convoluted under him. He added special interest groupings (for multi millionaires) and gave them huge tax breaks while the middle class got a temporary payroll tax vacation they had to pay back the next year.

If you want simpler or lower taxes, forget about Trump. He made them more difficult and higher for nearly everyone AND added $8 TRILLION to the bill despite promising to simplify, cut taxes, and create a surplus. 🤦‍♂️

bobknight33 said:

I agree with the points that she makes.

However 2 things

1st.
Under current conditions If you call IRS for a question and they provide an incorrect solution - you are still on the hook.


2nd.
This is looking like the fox watching the hen house.


Best solution is to make the tax code streamline simplified, cut out all the special interest group set asides.

Beau schools on schooling: why 'FREE' scares Biff & Babs

newtboy says...

1) in the 50’s, the time period MAGA wants to return to, colleges were often free with higher admission standards. Do you advocate free college for anyone qualified?

2) there’s a shock

3) that goes for abortions too, if you really want it you’ll find a way, but the “ways” left are all dangerous.

4) you said he was successful despite the fact that he left high school to support his family before…but ok, now he graduated public high school, and is the smartest man you know. Telling.
My mother graduated Rice university Suma Cum Laude then returned for a masters in English. Dad graduated in the top 1% of his class from Stanford with a chemistry major, then started a highly successful international high tech insulation company making insulation for nuclear power plants in the 70’s. (Your dad may have worked for my dad. Is his name Frank F?)

5) Neither could have succeeded as they did if they had to pay today’s rates for college, or if each had hundreds of thousands in debt to pay back. Both scored 1590 on their SAT. Neither got scholarships or loans (Rice was free, dad’s parents and part time jobs paid for Stanford). Neither “fucked around”.

6) Colleges charge more because people will pay it, because a degree is an absolute necessity to be successful in the business world (unless you inherit tens of millions). If you drop the amount people can borrow for school, they’ll just accept intellectually poorer students (like you) that CAN pay. Supply and demand….that doesn’t mean you discount your in high demand product because your preferred customer can’t afford it so long as someone can. Duh.

bobknight33 said:

1)Truly there should be a helping hand to bright students who can't get a scholarship, loans to to to higher education.


2) I was poor student , didnt care about it got low grades.

3) Dads motto -
IF you want something bad enough you will find a way.

4) Dad was a HS grad and was writing quotes for Navy Nuclear and many other million $ bids. Smartest man I know.

5) higher education should place a finical burden on you - You will work harder because you can't afford to fck around.

6) That being said college / universities are over charging and raping students more and more every year.

? do college charge more because they know that the student can get the loan? I think so.

I think If you drop the amount a student can get in loans I sure tuition will drop to that level --- Supply and demand.

Beau schools on schooling: why 'FREE' scares Biff & Babs

luxintenebris says...

the whole 'worthless degrees' is largely bogus. unless it's a DJT University ratskin, just the experience alone broads a person's mind (some more/some less).

a cartoon once read where a woman lamented to her girlfriend, that as a housewife, she didn't get to use her psychology degree. her husband interrupts them complaining about the cleanness of the floors. the wife tells him she just did them and the argument goes into overdrive. finally, she chides him w/"oh! big talk! as if you could do better!" oh, of course, he takes the bait, rolls up his sleeves...and the wife's friend smilingly says "you never use it?"

don't think it ever goes to total waste.

and bk33's contention that free education would be undervalued is largely bupkiss too: the desire to pay back is often a motivation; enhances the tax base; fills jobs that translate to greater national security...etc. the value is too great to be ignored. for the country or the individual.

even if it was worthless, it still can be appreciated. like the time Bob Newhart told the story of a tryst he had w/a woman he met at a party. both drunk, ending up in the back of his car - - as he put it, "it meant nothing. never saw her again. it was the cheapest, meaningless moment that i'll never forget for the rest of my life!"

btw: an idea of what a French citizen pays at the Sorbonne
https://www.unipage.net/en/5563/paris_sorbonne_university

newtboy said:

When my mother graduated summa cum laude from Rice University, it was one of the most respected universities in America and 100% free. Her degrees are anything but worthless. So much for that talking point.

In California, jr colleges are quite affordable, when I went it was under $250 a semester for 15+ units, all transferable to nearly any 4 year school. That’s a savings of about $80 k on freshman and sophomore years alone. The classes were small, the professors award winners, and they got to teach instead of trying to weed out 2/3 of the class like many 4 year colleges. Now in many cases 2 years of full class schedules are free in California at least. I don’t know why anyone would go to a 4 year college for freshman and sophomore year.

I didn’t care about a degree, so I stayed at jr college for 10 years taking whatever I wanted. More people should take advantage of them.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

OMG!

First it was “I took absolutely nothing, fake news.”
Then “I maybe accidentally took some documents I immediately returned.”
Then “when they came with the second subpoena we gave them everything and swore under oath we had.”
Then “What’s the big deal that we still had top secret nuclear documents unsecured, all they had to do was ask for the documents, we always cooperated.”
Then “No crime, I automatically declassified any document I removed from secure locations by secret overreaching decree I never memorialized.”
Now it’s “yes, I stole hundreds of top secret nuclear documents hurting the country and making everyone less safe because I thought maybe I wanted to put them in my public presidential library that I haven’t started planning to build for everyone to see, so I kept them in an unlocked closet and a public hallway outside the unlocked basement.….because that’s what you do with top secret highly classified nuclear documents.”

His claim other presidents did this is nonsense. Other presidents went through the proper process to screen out secret classified documents, and never took any of the documents, the national archive held them until they were transferred to presidential libraries.

He’s now admitted he personally illegally stole them, and that he personally ignored multiple subpoenas demanding their return, that he personally kept them completely unsecured, and that he (through his legal representatives at his direction) lied and swore to the FBI he had turned them all over. Not what you do when you think you have a legitimate reason for having them….and all public admissions to multiple felonies. Every attempted excuse is an admission of multiple serious felonies involving national security….tell me it’s nothing, prove absolutely nothing comes before your allegiance to the Ochre Ogre. (It’s ok…we know it already.)

Over 700 classified pages….each one carries 5-15 years in prison.

Traitors - “nothing burger”

BTW- turns out records prove that Barr NEVER considered the charges against Trump when he publicly exonerated him, didn’t even read the evidence, just said “nope, not prosecuting”.
The secret memo he tried to hide even from the judge determining if it could be kept secret says clearly that Barr needs to make a statement and not release the full report because it clearly implies/shows the president committed obstruction. This was Barr’s legal team telling him there are legitimate legal charges in the report, and he needs to obstruct the courts and public from seeing them.
At least 10 instances listed in the unredacted Mueller report of Trump obstructing justice that Barr covered up.
That is an underlying crime Barr insisted didn’t exist.
He may be facing obstruction charges too. Likely about to be disbarred, after courts determined he outright lied about the Mueller report. Gonna be great to have an administration reunion in the yard at Levenworth. Everyone will be there.

Edit: aren’t you going to tell us how awful student debt relief is? What a travesty it is to exclude millionaires from getting $10-$20k back in the pocketbooks of those struggling with crushing school debt, some to horrific for profit “schools” like Trump’s totally fraudulent “school” scam? Don’t you need to scream “SOCIALISM!!!”?

No? *crickets*? Isn’t this sending the message that you can just walk away from debt you contracted to pay back? Isn’t it the hard left swing deep into socialist communism that will destroy western civilization? I’m begging you, take the bait and talk shit like the rest of the extreme right…I double dog dare you.

Biden and the June job reports

bobknight33 says...

I applaud the jobs #

But when you say *quality leadership, -- You are Sadly mistaken .

Putting Union back together -- you mean political payback for all the $ spent buying Biden / Democrats that Biden is now paying back the unions in favors?

So you are saying that You are in favor of big business buying our politicians and getting special breaks using American tax dollars.

What Trump damage. Went from a 0.2% GDP growth /yr to 2.5 + Growth. Obama touted that this0.2% was the new norm and Trump claimed BS. Trump said he wold crate jobs and Obama dumbly said how by waving a magic wand.


Trump, for all his BS turned America around and mad all of us better.

A strong work force is the only positive news of this Admin.

Biden and Democrat policies can make policies that help the American pocketbook but wont.


This biggest is the party stance on oil. Americans are getting poorer mostly from this fact alone. The party decided to cut out fossil fuels and go green. This decision is costing families hundreds of dollars extra, that they don't have every month.

Not just from the extra at the pump but also the extra cost to deliver goods and services .



Current media reports that this extra cost is running about 500$/month 6K$/year.

This is you man Joe, and his party's policies?

I just assume to keep Trump , mean tweets and all, and keep the $6 grand / year in my pocket.

newtboy said:

*doublepromote good news making Trumpster’s heads explode
*quality leadership, only took 18 months to repair the wrecked economy left by the ex pant pooper in chief. Putting the union back together may be an impossibility, the damage Trump did there seems irreparable.

No doubt, the anti America crowd will find a way to either deny these statistics or do mental gymnastics to say they’re still awful, and tangerine Palpatine would have done much better (despite all evidence to the contrary).

What is QAnon? If You Don’t Know, Now You Know

newtboy says...

Interesting ramblings having nothing to do with my post about Q and news coverage, and mostly dead wrong.

Let me fix those....
Lost a boatload of jobs leaving us with highest unemployment rates since the great depression and the largest number of businesses closing.

Lowering taxes but raising spending, giving us the highest debt and largest deficit ever.
Include emergency spending and this year added well over $7 TRILLION to the debt. Each man woman and child owed $88000 before this year's insane over budget spending in the neighborhood of $7 Trillion that's been reported (which means it could be trillions more in hidden spending). He is running America like a business, and he likes to strip businesses of all cash and assets, putting them in his own pockets, bankrupt them, then walking away leaving his partners ruined. America is nearing bankruptcy, is in massively more debt despite his promise to not only end deficit but end the debt term one. Instead he tried to double it and pocketed hundreds upon hundreds of millions in illegal business he directed the government to do with Trump companies, something no president has ever attempted but Trump's term has been non stop hatch act violations from day one, so he illegally stole hundreds of millions from hard working Americans, again.
Largest GDP drop ever in history, meaning the worst economy ever, not the best.
The deficit this year will be the largest since WW2, more than double the huge Obama 09 deficit that stopped the Republican recession of 08, 18% of GDP.
https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
The debt is 136% of gdp...up 32% under Trump in just 3 years, the Deficit is up 15%. The country reaches a tipping point if the ratio is more than 77%...it's 136%. 77% is when lenders begin to worry whether it's safe to buy the country's bonds. They think the government may not be able to pay back its debt. Under Trump they're fairly certain we won't even try.

Put another way, if Trump paid for his 2020 spending instead of raising the debt exponentially, every man, woman, and child would have a tax bill for $20000 just this year alone, with zero reduction in debt.

Caving in to China after praising them for their Covid response, he's not fighting back over anything. He can't even get a trade deal done after tossing out one we had, this has cost hundreds of Billions in pure wasted money for his ego. China is expanding as we contract in ability, economic strength, and even territory.
He's pro Russia, he's destroyed American manufacturing, education, mail, infrastructure, international standing, trade, and debt. He talks pro American, he doesn't lead or govern that way. He's pro Trump, and has no other loyalties.

The military didn't need a whit of rebuilding, it was quite well funded before, and he inherited the best prepared, best funded, best armed (with the most ammunition despite his lies), largest (measured by equipment, not soldiers), and most inclusive military. He's screwed them repeatedly, by repeated last minute redeployment, cutting benefits, ignoring Russia's bounties on American soldiers and the deaths those payments caused, tossing out decorated soldiers while pardoning and reinstating murderous anti American sadists (stripping them of honor), and now he's screwed up their medical system by screwing up the USPS, delaying their medicine, and killing some veterans in the process, way more than Benghazzi.

Yeah, you are bat shit crazy, ignoring facts constantly to praise Trump over his destruction of our national status on every front.
Just nuts, Bob. You must pretend 2020 didn't happen to believe even one of those lies.

bobknight33 said:

Creating shitload of jobs,
lowering taxes for people and corporations,
having the best economy in our life time.

Fighting back against China.
Being PRO America.
Rebuilding the Military

Yea bat chit crazy,

Why Ford And Other American Cars Don’t Sell In Japan

eric3579 says...

I think poorly made cars that get horrible gas mileage and are not the right size is more than enough reasons why they don't buy American cars. Also Japanese cars ARE fuel efficient, the most reliable cars made, and the right size. I think pay back for American protectionism seems far fetched when all the above reasons are so overwhelming, but just my opinion of course

psycop said:

My understanding was that this is an example of American automotive industry protectionism coming home to roost.

Missionaries Spread The Love

Sagemind says...

This guy, got what he deserves being arrested for Assault.

BUT what about all the damage he's done to everything including slandering his own religion, racial relations, international relations and so on.

so much to say here, quitting before I rant - Have a nice day.

Edit: I hope he's sent home and de-funded by the church and benefactors who pay for his missionary work - In fact, I hope he's forced to pay back all the money he's received thus far.

New Rule: Suckers | Real Time with Bill Maher

Sagemind says...

it's unfortunate, I agree.
We need government to set laws and restrictions because humans are shitty, and big companies will always make decisions based on money and short term solutions. Big business and corporations will cut corners on anything environment because it's not in their interest. their only interest is paying back the biggest dollar to their shareholders.

The funny thing is, the shareholders are people like you and me, and we don't have a say on how these companies are run. Our Retirement funds are invested in them, and our savings accounts are being used by the banks to invest in them. That's why our money grows over time.

So big corporate interests are our interests. It's a vicious circle, If we want our investments to be responsible, we're going to also need our governments to impose those rules on corporations so we can have a future for our children and live on a clean earth.

transmorpher said:

Oops,I must have missed the start of the video somehow lol.

But if that was his reasoning, he's still passing the buck. Why do we have to wait for the government to tell us on to throw plastic into the ocean or not to buy beef because it causes more emissions than all transport. For a person who constantly wants to keep government out of our lives, he seems to want them to also solve his problems.

Anyway I don't like the guy, but thanks for the follow up, I really did miss the message. Thx.

mark blythe:is austerity a dangerous idea?

radx says...

15:05-15:30: you tell Mr and Mrs Front-Porch that your loonie of 1871 cannot be compared to your loonie of 2013 (year of this interview). You went off the gold standard in '33, you abandoned the peg in '70, and your currency has been free-floating ever since. Yes, the ratio of debt to GDP has some importance, but so does the nature of your currency. Just look at Greece and Japan, where the former uses a foreign currency and the latter uses its own, sovereign, free-floating currency.

Pay back the national debt -- have you thought that through?

First, the Bank of Canada is the monopolist currency issuer for the loonie, so explain to me in detail just how the issuer of the currency is supposed to borrow the currency from someone else? If you're the issuer of the currency, you spend it into existence, and use taxation as a means to create demand for your currency, and to free resources for the government to acquire, because you can only ever buy what is for sale.

Second, every government bond is someone else's asset. An interest-bearing asset. A very safe asset, in the case of Canada, the US, the UK, Japan, etc. "Paying back the debt" means putting a bullet into just about every pension fund in the world that doesn't rely exlusively on private equity or other sorts of volatile toilet paper.

There's a distributional issue with these bonds (they are concentrated in the hands of the non-working class, aka the rich), no doubt about it. But most of the other issues are strictly political, not economical.

What if the interest rate rises 1%? The central bank can lower the interest rate to whatever it damn well pleases, because nobody can ever outbid the currency issuer in its own currency. Remember, the central banks were the banks of the treasuries. The whole notion of an independent central bank was introduced to stop these pesky leftists from spending resources on plebs. That's why central banks were often removed from democratic control and handed over to conservative bankers. If the Treasury wants an interest rate of 2% on its bonds, it tells its central bank to buy any excess that haven't been auctioned off at this rate. End of story.

What if the market stops buying government bonds? Then the central bank buys the whole lot. However, government bonds are safe assets, and regulations demand a certain percentage of safe assets in certain portfolios, so there is always demand for the bonds. Just look at the German Bundesanleihen. You get negative real rates on 10 year bonds, and they are still in very high demand. It's a safe asset in a world of shitty private equity vaporware.

But, but.... inflation! Right, the hyperinflation of 2006 is still right around the corner. Just like Japan hasn't been stuck near deflation for two decades, and all the QE by the BoE and the ECB has thrown both the UK and the Eurozone into double-digit inflation territory. Not! None of these economies are running near maximum capacity/full employment, and very little actual spending (the scary, scary "fiscal policy") has been done.

But I'm going off track here, so.... yeah, you can pay back your public debt. Just be very aware of what exactly that entails.

As for the poster-child Latvia: >10% of the population left the country.

Here's a different poster-child instead, with the hindsight of another 4 years of austerity in Europe after this interview: Portugal. The Portuguese government told Master of Coin Schäube to take a hike, and they are now in better shape than the countries who just keep on slashing.

On a different note: Marx was wrong about the proletariat. Treating them like shit doesn't make them rebellious, it makes them lethargic. Otherwise goons like Mario Rajoy would have had their comeuppance by now.

PS: Blyth's book on Austerity is an absolute must-read for anyone interested in its history or its current effects in particularly the Eurozone.

Yes We Can. Obama stories are shared. What a guy.

enoch says...

@ChaosEngine
never going to happen.
the obama administration has been waging war against whistleblowers for 8 years.prosecuting more whistleblowers using the archaic "espionage act of 1917" to pursue and prosecute more whistleblowers than any other president in americas history COMBINED.

unless there is a massive public outcry to force the executive branch to pardon snowden,it is never going to happen.

but as long as we are making a wishlist to the fairy godmother of shit-that-is-never-going-to-happen,let me add to that list:

1.repeal the NDAA of 2017,which is an addon to the NDAA of 2012,which is a simply continuation of the MCA of 2006 (look em up folks,those "rights" you claim to have are really mere suggestion due to these abominations.

2.pursue and indict ALL wall street players who knowingly engaged in fraud and collapsed the global economy.strip them of all begotten gains to pay back the american people,and throw them in the most vile of maximum prisons (hopefully with a bunkmate nicknamed 'anal destroyer").

3.recind ALL expanded powers that the bush administration enacted (thanks to neocons addington and woo) and which the obama administration actually expanded even further,and NOW trump will be executive over the most powerful executive branch in american history .(this would be a nice one eh?).

4.have the DEA and ATF actually honor obamas original statement that his administration would not pursue federal law in regards to marijuana,mandated by referendums by the citizens of those states (to which he had promptly disregarded,and raided local dispenseries).

5.reduce americas prison population(2.4 million,largest on the planet) by pardoning the non-violent drug offenders,and disallowing companies like nike and apple to abuse prison labor (slave labor).

6.stop the practice of military intervention at the behest of corporations to exploit the poorest and most vulnerable.

7.stop the practice of regime change at the behest..oh this is becoming familiar...corporations wishing to exploit the poorest and most vulnerable for their resources.

8.and could we possibly,maybe..stop with targeted drone strikes? a.k.a "assassinations". how a constitutional law professor reconciles his law pedigree with his "value target tuesday" i.e:murder just boggles my mind.

man,i should stop.my wishlist is becoming to long..and depressing.

i voted this video up because i will not ignore that obama did some good,and even some great things during his presidency,but i also will not ignore his very disturbing failures.

and there are a LOT of disturbing failures.

so i will sit and hold hands and sing kumbaya as we all remember our very smart president,but let us not forget..this very same president expanded an executive branch that trump will be taking over the reigns very soon.

and on that note,i have to give him a failing grade.

Senator Warren Destroys Wells Fargo CEO Over Cross Selling

moonsammy says...

Very true, which is why I was glad she asked whether anyone in charge of compliance had been fired. However, her point about his paying back the money is pertinent, as he has stated repeatedly that he "takes full responsibility." I don't feel one can claim to both take full responsibility and personally suffer none of the consequences.

While cross-selling is absolutely legal, managers at a high level should be savvy enough about how people behave to realize that if low-level employees are heavily incentivized to sell, while also being punished for not selling enough, then they're going to get creative about how they do it. That should absolutely lead to careful monitoring of any newly-opened accounts to ensure they're entirely legitimate. Without that compliance structure in place, it's inevitable that fraud is going to happen. Human nature makes it very easy to predict.

This is without even getting into the allegations that whistle-blowers who made serious efforts to inform upper-level management about the malfeasance were disregarded and subsequently fired.

SDGundamX said:

The real issue here is that there were not adequate controls in place to prevent the fake accounts from being created in the first place (or detected quickly after being created). And for that Stumpf probably does have some small amount of responsibility, although it sounds to me more like whoever was in charge of compliance is the person who likely should be the one left holding the bag.

HOUSTON MAN ARRESTED BY US MARSHAL FOR NOT PAYING OLD STUDEN

eric3579 says...

Title, description and video hardly tell the real story.

"But according to the U.S. Marshals Service, there was a bit more to Aker’s story that wasn’t told on air.

According to the feds Aker had a warrant for his arrest and that he had been dodging them for some time.

The U.S. Marshals Service noted Tuesday that they have been given the responsibility for service of civil processes as directed by the federal court system. These civil processes can include summons for individuals to appear in court to address delinquent federal student loans.

"Since November 2012, U.S. Marshals had made several attempts to serve a show cause order to Paul Aker to appear in federal court, including searching at numerous known addresses. Marshals spoke with Aker by phone and requested he appear in court, but Aker refused. A federal judge then issued a warrant for Aker's arrest for failing to appear at a Dec. 14, 2012, hearing," the agency said in a statement Tuesday.

"It is the responsibility of the U.S. Marshals to serve civil processes at direction of the federal courts. These civil processes include summonses for individuals to appear in court to address delinquent federal loans, including student, agricultural and other loans made by federal agencies."

When officials made contact with him on Feb. 11, the U.S. Marshals said that they only sent two agents to his door. They say that when they attempted to arrest him, Aker resisted and retreated back into his home.

"The situation escalated when Aker verbally said to the deputies that he had a gun. After Aker made the statement that he was armed, in order to protect everyone involved, the deputies requested additional law enforcement assistance. Additional deputy marshals and local law enforcement officers responded to the scene. After approximately two hours, the law enforcement officers convinced Aker to peacefully exit his home, and he was arrested without further incident," the agency said in a statement.

The statement from the U.S. Marshals noted that here in Houston some 1,500 people have been identified for not appearing in court to address outstanding federal student loans.

These are likely extreme cases that have been drawn out for some time though. It's still recommended that debtors pay back their loans as quick as they can.
A judge has now issued warrants for the arrest of these people. Marshals say that every attempt is made to inform individuals of their initial summons before it comes to what Aker faced. "
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/US-Marshals-say-man-wasn-t-arrested-because-he-6834620.php

Sagemind said:

Not.
Apparently, he was arrested for failing to appear in court, which is a federal offense in the US. The swat type brigade that showed up to arrest him, was because he refused to go, and told them he had a gun.

The real story here, is that a private company is being allowed to use Federal agents, at the people's expense for their own profit.

I think that's the sum of it.
Anything I missed?

Greek/Euro Crisis Explained

radx says...

Let's ignore for the moment what led to this current mess within the Eurozone. You point out, correctly, that Greece is too poor to service its debt. And yes, for the German government to do whatever is required to get back their loans is to be expected. However, Greece was incapable of servicing its debt five years ago. Yet the subsequent programs, all supported or even demanded by the German government, reduced Greece's ability to pay back at least portions of its debt. At the end of the day, goods and services are what it's all about. And by dismantling the Greek economy, nevermind the Greek society, they actively undermined what they publicly claimed to be working for: a self-reliant Greek economy, capable of financing the needs of Greece. And capable of paying back what is owed.

The question inescapably poses itself: was it done intentionally or are they blinded by ideology?

One doesn't have to be as far left as I am to see that it didn't work, doesn't work, and never could have worked. Even the likes of Krugman and Stiglitz are perfectly clear about it.

Varoufakis, as you note, has been just as clear about this at least since late 2010, when he published the first draft of his Modest Proposal with Stuart Holland. There was a very good discussion about it in Austin in 10/2013 under the topic "Can the Eurozone be saved?" Participants included Varoufakis, Tsipras, Flassbeck, Holland and Galbraith, amongst others. I submitted a short clip back then.

His argument that Germany won't see a dime when Greece is shoved off a cliff, as correct as it is, never had any bite to begin with. The German government, and large parts of parliament, are operating in a parallel universe, economically. Over here, mercantilism is the road to success. Monetarism works. Surplus good, deficit bad. Saving good, spending bad. Everyone should have a current account surplus.

It's horseshit by the gallons, and it's the official economic policy of the largest economy in the EU.

And we're not even getting into the political aspects of it. Throwing a member of the EU into debt bondage, suspending its democracy to please the gods of the market... that's a travesty and a half. Yet it's also inevitable if they insist on going down the road of neoliberalism.

Worst of all, Greece is just the canary in the coal mine, as Varoufakis likes to point out. Greece had plenty of issues before they joined the EZ, but when they chose to adapt the same currency as a much larger economy hell bent on competitiveness, which is the favorite euphemism for Germany's beggar-thy-neighbour policies, they were doomed to be crushed. The rest of the PIIGS are next in line, unless this whole mess explodes beforehand. Maybe Rajoy's Franco-esque repression techniques fail, maybe le Pen wins in 2017, who knows. Maybe Schäuble finds the 100k of bribes that he conveniently forgot about back in the '90s and chokes on them.

Last but not least, 208 billion Euros – that's the projected current account surplus of Germany this year. That's 208 billion Euros of debt foreign economies have to accumulate, so that the German public and private sector can run a combined surplus of €208b. That's the elephant in the room. Systematic undercutting of the inflation target through suppression of unit labour costs and a dysfunctional focus on exports.

bcglorf said:

I think the very legitimate side for Germany is that if Greece wanted to borrow German money for those benefits that Germany would like to see that money someday paid back. More over, if Greece is now too poor to pay that money back and is asking for even more loans to scrape by, Germany isn't exactly an ogre in demanding some spending/taxation changes from Greece first so there is some hope at least the new loans will be paid back.

Greece's current finance minister doesn't even seem to deny much of this. Rather in accepting it, he points out that in spite of these debt obligations from the past, if Greece is forced to abide by them, the resulting collapse of Greece will similarly do nothing to help pay back the debts that are outstanding. Basically that Germany and other creditors are going to take the loss regardless, and maybe it's in everyone's best interests to find a road where Greece doesn't become a failed state.

Greek/Euro Crisis Explained

bcglorf says...

I think to be more fair to Germany, the way I see it isn't that German's are complaining about their own benefits being poor by comparison. I don't even see it as German's complaining that Greece's was too rich by comparison. Your point of Greek spending it's money as it wishes stands.

I think the very legitimate side for Germany is that if Greece wanted to borrow German money for those benefits that Germany would like to see that money someday paid back. More over, if Greece is now too poor to pay that money back and is asking for even more loans to scrape by, Germany isn't exactly an ogre in demanding some spending/taxation changes from Greece first so there is some hope at least the new loans will be paid back.

Greece's current finance minister doesn't even seem to deny much of this. Rather in accepting it, he points out that in spite of these debt obligations from the past, if Greece is forced to abide by them, the resulting collapse of Greece will similarly do nothing to help pay back the debts that are outstanding. Basically that Germany and other creditors are going to take the loss regardless, and maybe it's in everyone's best interests to find a road where Greece doesn't become a failed state.

radx said:

Finally, as long as the Greek economy produces enough goods and services, it is for them to decide how to distribute their wealth. If they want a lavish retirement system, so be it. Our governments opted to create a true underclass of the working poor, and gutted a retirement system that made it through two world wars unscathed. If German retirees want to bitch about their benefits, it should be aimed squarely at our governments and their intentional deconstruction of our social welfare state.



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