@Jinx -- Whether in "meatspace" or on the internet, I think the difference is engaging with others vs being in the echo chamber.

A lot of "engaging" with others is going to be negative. Picket line meets picket line has about as much chance of being productive as reading the comments on a controversial YouTube video.

But even if the majority of the "engagement" is that, there are going to be some patient people who connect in a positive enough way to actually enlighten and persuade. Like the former-WBC lady's new husband.

And while that positive engagement seems to have the best shot at redeeming those that can be redeemed, it also might be the best way to show the true colors of those beyond redemption. The skinhead leader guy got maced by counter-protesters twice. That gives him a semi-legitimate provocation to respond in kind or with escalating violence (bloody knuckles, broken bones, whatever). But if he isn't provided with any such provocation and still resorts to violence, people can truly see his "idealogy" for what it is.

Hence Rosa Parks responding to the bus driver in Montgomery:
Driver - "If you don't stand up, I'm going to have to call the police and have you arrested."
Parks - "You may do that."


If I was there in Charlottesville in the heat of the moment, face to face with that kind of hate and bigotry, I'd have been one of the people chanting "fuck off nazis". I'd have cheered when somebody on "my side" maced chief-skinhead in the face, if I hadn't done it myself. ...But I recognize that we could sure use more people that react like Rosa Parks did, and less like I would have.

I was in tears for months when I saw that, but I had to keep it together and keep raising my little girl. So I'd be doing finger paints with a happy face and then disappear into the bathroom and weep for a bit. It was a pretty dark time in my life.

The research and trials they are doing are a testament to modern medicine and science though. The doctor who is doing the trial with us dramatically changed the course of my family's life. Click here if you want to feel better about all that: https://fightnpc.com/en/drug_trials

Just LOOK at what a difference it makes in other mammals, and they already see very similar results in humans they are testing on. They've managed to nearly halt the progression of symptoms in most patients.

See also: http://www.fiercepharma.com/animal-health/cats-and-febreze-may-hold-key-to-treating-devastating-niemann-pick-disease

Just a follow up:

The research and trials they are doing for NPC are a testament to modern medicine and science. The doctor who is doing the trial with us dramatically changed the course of my family's life. Click here if you want to feel better about all that: https://fightnpc.com/en/drug_trials

Just LOOK at what a difference it makes in other mammals, and they already see very similar results in humans they are testing on. They've managed to nearly halt the progression of symptoms in most patients. :-D

See also: http://www.fiercepharma.com/animal-health/cats-and-febreze-may-hold-key-to-treating-devastating-niemann-pick-disease

I was in tears for months when I saw that, but I had to keep it together and keep raising my little girl. So I'd be doing finger paints with a happy face and then disappear into the bathroom and weep for a bit. It was a pretty dark time in my life.

The research and trials they are doing are a testament to modern medicine and science though. The doctor who is doing the trial with us dramatically changed the course of my family's life. Click here if you want to feel better about all that: https://fightnpc.com/en/drug_trials

Just LOOK at what a difference it makes in other mammals, and they already see very similar results in humans they are testing on. They've managed to nearly halt the progression of symptoms in most patients.

I want to hear the story of that other spider, the one unfortunate enough to hatch out on the downwind side of the stream. She has to patiently wait for some fortunate upwind spider, hatched with a silver spoon in her mouth, to waft a pilot web over. Then she jumps on it, and has to buffalo the other haughty spider off.

But no, no love for my spider at all.

I do agree, but on the other hand sometimes these things go well beyond legitimate "questions about your actions / statements / plans".

Subject even the most patient person in the world to enough stupid / leading / clickbait-y questions, and eventually they'll get annoyed with it. Which is of course the entire point, so that they can clip that reaction out of context and run it with a headline like "Watch as Senator X flies off the handle after being asked a simple question!"

Some of these incidents are definitely sleazy politicians trying to weasel out of scrutiny to the greatest degree possible. But I'm sure that many of them are the political version of Marshawn Lynch just wanting to do his goddamn job without being constantly peppered with pointless questions from the media. And we all thought he was awesome for showing up to media days and saying only "I'm just here so I don't get fined", right?

Not trying to trivialize the political arena down to the level of a public spectacle like professional sports, but I think the comparison is at least a little valid.

In America, you have every right to ignore them unless they give a lawful command, which you must obey. They cannot arrest you for silence, or for ignoring a request. I'll take my brother's expensive lawyer's advice over anyone's, and he said the only answer allowed is "ask my lawyer", and to do what they command, but not what they ask.

The girl wasn't aggressively pushing to me, but she also wasn't complying with a lawful command. If the audio is any indication, she was trying to get her phone out of her pocket while lying down handcuffed. She should have complied, but they also should have put her all the way in like they're trained to do, not 3/4 of the way. It's easy and safe to open the other door and pull her another foot into the car where she can't block anything, and that doesn't result in a lawsuit and more public distrust, but that wouldn't teach her a lesson. Pepper spray is not as safe as that by far.

It's not cool to hate cops, and I really wish they would stop getting caught doing things that foster hatred. I want them to act in a way the public can always support, not the least patient and most aggressive they can legally justify in every situation. It would be good if they could be thinking 'how would I feel if someone did this to my daughter/son under the same conditions.
I doubt any of them would be ok with that happening to their child, tantrum or no. They could have been worse here, but also could have defused it all with a single simple command to sit at the beginning. Don't expect an irrational, young, scared girl to act like an adult...that's beyond the capabilities of most adults.

You can humbly submit to authority if you wish. My forefathers fought and died to secure my rights to not answer questions or submit to the every whim of authority, I'll not disrespect their sacrifices by waiving those hard won rights for authority's, or my own convenience.

It would be nice if 15 year old girls were civil, but few I've known are when cornered. I think that's the real reason for the spraying, but not an excuse imo. To me, the cop's pride needs to give way to reason and logic, or we'll keep paying out multi million dollar judgements.

@ChaosEngine
then we disagree,but as eric pointed out some things do not translate well on a comment thread.

maybe i just have a different idea what a friend zone actually is and you are totally correct.

to me a "friend zone' is a place the man puts himself in,and is not the women's responsibility.she was straight up and honest.it was the man who deluded himself that if he just gave enough attention,or was patient enough,she would come around.

if anyone should feel shame,it is that pathetic dude for being such a pussy.

ah well..maybe i am just an old fart and no longer get the plot.

I personally know several people who's cats love going for walks on a leash. They even wait patiently by the door at the same time every day, eager for the activity, so don't believe all the idiot yammering from anti-cat dickheads who have no clue what they are talking about. Unfortunately, I can't walk my cat because of too many DOG OWNERS in the neighborhood who ignore leash laws and let their dangerous, flea-bitten, fur-covered shit factories run loose.

United totally, 100% disagrees with your assessment. They say they were absolutely wrong and the passenger shares zero responsibility for what happened to him, something that never should have happened and never will again (according to the United President).

Edit: Also totally convinced United did the wrong thing, their shareholders. Ignoring any legal rights, the publicity this gained for them has cost United hundreds of millions in market value.


The guy went to the check in counter to discuss volunteering to fly later, and refused when he was told he would not fly until the next afternoon at best, not in a few hours. That was not acceptable and would cost him money and patients, which he told them. Then he got back on without incident.
Then he was forcibly removed.
Then he got back on again without incident, rambling and bleeding, now diagnosed with a broken nose, missing teeth, and a severe concussion.
And you support the company that had him attacked and concussed and let him back on the plane twice, not the one even United calls "the victim".

Also, why is no one upset that he managed to re-plane twice with no one even noticing?!? That's an insane security failure.

What the world must look like to you when you insist on being on the wrong side on every issue. You really must exist in a living hell.

Where did you get this information that diametrically opposes her claims?
She said they confirmed the extra people were OK before they left home, and was told there's an extra charge, then was denied when they were 5 (3) minutes away calling for directions (if you don't know, many Airbnb listings don't include the address or directions beyond 'go to this town/intersection and call', so calling for directions 5 minutes away is not so abnormal.)
The pets, if not preapproved, are a perfectly good reason to deny her, but that's not what the landlord said in her texts.
Really? Her behavior is that of an Asian stereotype? You're going to have to explain that, as it sounds pretty racist itself.
As for the camera crew, it's a cell phone video. When you're lost in a whiteout, you ask the first people you can for help, the reporters were stopped there reporting on the blizzard in the pull out spot where her party was putting on chains, not flying past her, so she probably asked them for help or directions.
How is it "set up so perfectly"?
You certainly seem eager to support the landlord and dismiss all of this woman's claims as false, even with the texts from the landlord that were clearly racially dismissive and antagonistic in tone and no evidence yet that it wasn't purely racial discrimination. That's not a good look.

As for United, do you think they would have forced a younger articulate white doctor with patients to see off the plane like that? I don't.

You keep saying that, but have never offered a single example where I misunderstood or misrepresented anything, just a mistaken accusation that I added my own term "hypersensitives" out of bias, but it was actually in the title AND the paper.
Present one. What, exactly, am I misrepresenting? Use quotes and be specific.

I think you must not understand plain English then, because that Hopkins synopsis is in plain English and contradicts your original blanket contention I took issue with-"rheumatoid arthritis is a flare up caused by dairy and certain meats".
That might be true in some cases of patients with food hypersensitivities, the science isn't yet clear, but it is clear that your original all encompassing statement is just wrong in most if not all cases and overreaching exaggeration in the extreme as written, something which is specifically warned against in the paper itself. ( "the science is not able to reliably identify specific triggers for individuals." , "These studies are few in number and should be interpreted and extrapolated to real life only with careful thought and caution.")
I personally know 2 long term (over 30 years) vegans in my family with active rheumatoid arthritis, and know of many more. If your statement was correct, that would be impossible.

Edit: had you said 'it appears that, in some people, RA flare ups can be caused by meat and/or dairy.' instead of "rheumatoid arthritis is a flare up caused by dairy and certain meats" you would not have been contradicted. If you could accept that the exaggeration makes your statement unsupportable instead of defending it blindly and zealously with mistaken assumption and misplaced insult, this would have been a single post instead of a whole thread.

According to the JH website, it's not only wrong, the study could not show what you claim by it's design.
Excuse me...let me use their exact words....

Food Hypersensitivities and Their Link to RA

In some patients, specific foods have been shown to exacerbate the symptoms of RA.(ref 5) Avoiding these foods or food groups has been shown to have limited, short term benefits but no benefits long term. Even though different forms of dietary modification have reportedly improved symptoms in some patients, people with RA may have spontaneous temporary remissions. Therefore, it is important to perform double-blind, placebo controlled trials to differentiate diet effect from spontaneous remission. You may identify a food that is a particular trigger for you, and this phenomenon is real. However, the science is not able to reliably identify specific triggers for individuals.

Diet elimination therapy is a method of determining food hypersensitivities with patients. Elimination diets avoid a specific food or group of foods such as milk, meat or processed foods that are known to be prime allergy suspects. These foods are eliminated from the diet for a specific period of time. Foods are then gradually reintroduced one at a time, to determine whether any of them causes a reaction.

Panush and colleagues, demonstrated temporary improvement in the signs and symptoms of RA with diet elimination and modification in a controlled study where the symptoms associated with food sensitivities were studied.(ref 5) During this study when the patient was fasting or on a severely restricted diet, the patients symptoms improved significantly. However, when the patient had milk reintroduced into the diet, episodes of pain, swollen and tender joints and stiffness were experienced. Similarly, Kjeldsen-Kragh and colleagues(ref 6) noted that fasting may be effective in reducing the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis, however most patients relapsed as new foods were reintroduced into the diet. Pain and discomfort frequently returned once a patient reverted to a normal diet. These studies are few in number and should be interpreted and extrapolated to real life only with careful thought and caution.

So, no vegan has arthritis, but the entire medical community just missed that fact? Not true.
One more total misrepresentation of the science by your guru....the ACTUAL science, from Hopkins, says....
"In some patients, specific foods have been shown to exacerbate the symptoms of RA.(ref 5) Avoiding these foods or food groups has been shown to have limited, short term benefits but no benefits long term. Even though different forms of dietary modification have reportedly improved symptoms in some patients, people with RA may have spontaneous temporary remissions. Therefore, it is important to perform double-blind, placebo controlled trials to differentiate diet effect from spontaneous remission. You may identify a food that is a particular trigger for you, and this phenomenon is real. However, the science is not able to reliably identify specific triggers for individuals."
So only in hyper sensitive patients that have allergies to dairy, meats, or processed foods has this appeared to be somewhat effective temporarily, not long term, not for everyone....and it seems only anecdotally at this point (they imply that there have not been double blind, placebo controlled studies yet).
Fish oils are FAR more effective, but, you know, that's an animal product, so McDougal (as he is want to do at every turn) dismisses it in favor of false claims about miraculous veganism and misrepresentation of the science.

I downvoted your comment for using misrepresentational propaganda and unverified anecdote masquerading as scientific data from a known liar with undeniable bias to support your unsupportable position(s), that veganism cures everything including cancer.

If we treated cancer patients the way we treat addicts has been added as a related post - related requested by ChaosEngine on that post.