I have neither the time, nor the inclination to tear apart your illogical arguments. I will just expose one nonsense; Your belief is that God just is. He was not created. Well, according to your holy books god decided to create the "heavens and the earth and all that dwell on it." So, why did he not do it sooner? Of course, if he just "is" then there is no sooner as he is eternal, without beginning or end. But even if you dismiss time, there was, according to your myth a, let's call it a point, when he started to create. Oh, and he was truly clever creating the heavens and earth before creating light. The whole concept of a god is utterly flawed and so obviously man made that it is, literally, laughable.

DAMN Nature! You... oddly conforming to man-made paths and obstructions.

Some people are never satisfied. Personally, I'm so tired of the extremists views on both sides (and believe me, Pat Robertson is often the source of pretty nasty extreme views) that this was actually refreshing. Some people are just so cynical, they can't appreciate anything less than Pat Robertson and Jesus himself coming forward as atheists.

Here's my view on it for those who may care:

Religion is pretty worthless. Sure it's been the cause of lots of horrible (and good) things through history, but it's also an attempt to combine what some deem as fact with something that's so beyond fact that we can't even comprehend it. It's man made. Full of errors and contradictions, blah, blah, blah. We all know that. Basically it all just falls apart whenever you try to throw science in there. It's like judging an apple by the standards of screwdriver.

So let's look at just the spiritual side of things. This is where I hang out. I see it as something beyond science (though uses science as it's tool) and factual understanding. It goes beyond nitpicking this fact and that falsehood. It's just a thing in the air that you can either be in touch with or not. If you are (and I am) then it fills a gap. Gives you hope. Comfort. Peace. Lots of things that are indescribable. But you feel better when you have it and you can't choose to believe in it or not. You just do. If you don't buy into it, then there is no gap to begin with. Doesn't make you smarter or better. You just have different needs.

Now maybe that means that in some dark recess of your psyche that if you're in touch with this spiritual side of things, then you die believing you'll be in an amazing place for eternity. And so you are. Or you don't believe, and so you aren't. Neither is better or worse compared to the other because they have no business being compared to the other. They don't coexist. They just both exist.

I think whatever it is that you believe in sets a standard for your life. Following those things, being true to those things, is what it's all about. This completes you. You can't force them on others or yourself for that matter. You can't punish others for not playing by your rules. You just have to play by your own (as long as you don't harm others).

And I'm tired of spiritualism HAVING to mean pure magic. Science is magic. Science is the most amazing magic. Does things you'd never believe. It's not an insult. It's just makes the whole damn system that much more incredible. If you choose to call that magic, go right ahead. It's just a word. Before long we'll realize that science can do things magic only dreamed of and that's pretty damn magical.

By the way, I'm not typing this trying to change anyone's mind or act like it's some kind of original thought. I'm just typing some thoughts. I like this kind of shit. Debates are great and healthy. I'm just sick of people hating on or insulting folks for believing in their heart something that's different.

Well, I'll certainly grant you obesity as being the fault of GMOs, but only in that they've made foods cheaper and more abundant and thus obesity is easier to attain.

I thought the links beginning to surface for all the other conditions were the fault of human CO2 emissions, or vaccinations, or the NWO...

Back to being serious though, my big, big trouble with 'linking' or blaming GMO for health problems or, well, anything, is a complete absence of any scientific evidence and studies supporting said statements and claims. The glaring absence of such evidence really, really sets of my skepticism meter when bold claims against GMO products are stated as matter of course. It sounds to me much more like new things scare me talk than reasoned factual argument.

Are any of the cattle, chickens and pigs raised today 'natural', or are they so far removed from their original species by centuries of human directed selective breeding to be deemed man-made? Truth is there arguably never was such a thing as non-GMO Canola. It was invented as a derivative of Rapeseed by a university about 2 hours from me in the seventies. Talking about GMO products as though, oh no, we've never done anything like this ever before in human history so be very cautious just seems ignorant to me.

my god @lantern53,
did you just try to school everyone on consensus vs science?
and you did this after using an ice age analogy?
and not with an ounce of irony?

the ignorance on display is so massive that i am embarrassed for you my man.

the consensus is ON the science!
the only argument is what % is man-made.
thats it.

More of the sky is falling bullshit from the radical left. Still its messing as usual at MSNBC.


Man made climate change is total BS

There is a reasonable body of evidence that suggests octopi actually have reasonable problem solving skills.

When placed in man made situations that they couldn't have encountered before, individuals have demonstrated a remarkable (for an invertebrate) ability to adapt. This would suggest that the abilities are not innate (in the sense of evolved behaviours over generations of trial and error).

Saying that; "All religions are based on ignorance, fear and control," is NOT a "blanket statement," nor is it a "broad generalisation." It is, simply, a fact. You say that; "religion should be criticized,debated and discussed and
the underlying philosophies should be examined for their veracity." Well, myriad great thinkers who have done just that. Their conclusion? There may, indeed, be a superior force. But the "gods" portrayed in literature, of any faith, are clearly man made. In fact, the gods of man can be seen as nothing more than divine dictators, cruel and vengeful.
I would never call followers of religion dumb. I would, however, say that they are intellectually lazy in accepting their brainwashing without question. If, of course, they enjoy being slaves then they are free to be so. As long as their bronze age cults are kept to themselves, and out of schools and politics.

All religions are based on ignorance, fear and control. They are simply man made myths, designed to control man. I've looked at the myriad "faiths" over time and, no matter how tempted, always had one thing stopping me getting trapped by any of them. It's called intelligence.

"I don't know" is not a belief.

it's all part of the murky definition of atheism that seems to be in flux.

at one point Atheism used to be defined as a definitive claim that no gods existed. This was the primary reason I considered myself to not be an atheist. Because you can't know (presently) There could be a creator, just that a creator probably isn't an petty ass from the stone ages which is how most religions portray a creator.

However I would identify with with how the Atheist Experience defines Atheism: to be the rejection of theistic claims. They specifically say numerous times that they do not claim that no god exists, just that they call bullshit on the claims of all current man-made religions because of lack of evidence.

Which is a viewpoint I can agree with.

It's something I've kinda kept track of for a while, over the years I google the definition of Atheism and many times in the past, it's been defined implying the positive belief that there are no creator(s) which I can't agree with..again, because you can't prove a negative in this situation.

it does seem to be slowly changing though, more and more definitions have changed to match the Atheist Experience's definition.

David Silverman, (while I agree with him on a lot of things) is a douchebag IMO. I'm sorry, you're just not going to win people over with douchey billboards antagonizing theists.

I support freedom of religion, I agree with our founders though that gov't has to be secular. You can vote based on your religious beliefs. but a person elected into public office has to compartmentalize themselves from their religious beliefs and be secular. You govern everyone, not just the followers of your religion. Kick religion out of gov't, but as long as religion doesn't infringe on other peoples' rights, then they can do whatever they want.

Seems like some people on YouTube can't tell the difference between CGI and real life... I thought the man made Christmas tree between two airplanes is a dead giveaway

It gets worse than that. There are number of high profile christians that believe climate change is man made and it triggers the rapture. That is just perverse, these people actually WANT to hurt the planet as they believe that they are doing Gods work while polluting. That's how sick religions can get people.

Modern day, right wing Republicanism is fueled by religion, religion that has told it's practitioners that they are being persecuted and they are the ones to save them. Calvinism, Rousas John Rushdoony, Christian Reconstructionism and an honest belief that they are in the end times, and are actively pursuing the end times...
An intersting article showing just how messed up modern day Tea Party politics is, Ted Cruz’s Father Preaches That His Son Is An “Anointed King” Who Will Bring The “End Time Transfer Of Wealth”

The church leaders, Fox News and everyone else has them all messed up to such a degree that they ignore the fact Jesus said it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, that they have their rewards here on Earth; that they ware to help the needy and the poor; that they are to be stewards of the Earth; blessed are the peacmakers; to heal the sick; to pray in secret, not make a big show of it as many Republican leaders do; that only God knows the appointed time of Jesus' return... and that word appointed means something... it doesn't matter if all the signs are here, if it isn't that appointed time, then it isn't time. I've heard the argument made that things like climate change doesn't matter as God is returning soon anyhow... it doesn't even enter their minds that perhaps God's appointed time is 52,584 CE/AD, to them it has to be ending soon... The election of Obama proved it to them that we are in the end times (I've heard that too, or pray for the world to end soon)... this is the fatalism that is running rampant in the minds of those who are voting for the Tea Party right wing nut cases. They are denied special privileges, they claim they are being persecuted. They truly see themselves being in the end of days and they are doing all they can to self fulfill the prophesies (even if they don't realize they are doing so, though many do know)... even if it became undeniable tomorrow that not only was climate change real, but it was man made, they would just point to the Bible and find some prophesy that the Earth would be polluted in the end of days. They hear on Fox News and Rush and in the church, people they trust saying "if you really think about it...", "anybody with half a mind could clearly see..." or "if you think critically about it..." and then tell them what to think, so that they think they have logic on their side as well as God.

As VoodooV pointed out, they are willing to sacrifice their own plans and ideas if it is adopted by those they see as the opposition in order to continue their persecution complex and continue to sabotage things.

I don't think the people who think the Republican party is doomed understand just how brainwashed their people are. I have to hear Fox news every day, and hear comments from conservatives every day about how everything is going to hell in a hand basket and only the Republican party can save them. It's becoming clear that all this is just galvanizing the core. They think they are being repressed, they think there is a war against Christianity (which is funny since the Republican party is perhaps the most polar opposite of the 4 larger parties, and certainly of the two majors, to the teachings of Jesus) and only Republicans will help stop that war. Their churches are telling them there is a war against Christians and how they are being repressed and to vote Republican to save them. These people, once they can no longer deny that the climate is warming and is man made, will just point how it is the end times and continue to ignore it, because Jesus is coming soon anyhow. It's like that cartoon where the rich man takes 99 of the 100 cookies, the middle class guy takes one and the poor guy has just crumbs and the rich man warns the middle class guy to watch out, that the poor guy wants his cookie, and rather than be mad at the guy who took 99 of the cookies, he actually gets mad at the poor guy for wanting one. They don't care that a rich man fires over 1000 people and keeps everyone else at minimum for 4 years without raises so he can have a jet, they see those minimum wage workers and the people he fired as the enemy.They honestly believe the big corporate media machine is the "liberal media", disregarding the fact they are very much interested in keeping the status qua going, rather than expose the truth of growing income gap in this country. By 2016 most people will have forgotten the shutdown and those that remember it won't remember it is the Republican's fault, yes, the progressives will remember, but the conservatives blame the Democrats, liberals and progressives anyhow, and the rest won't care by then. The Fox News watchers, Rush listeners are just more solidly believing now that everything is the fault of the poor and the needy and the liberals, Democrats and progressives that want to help them.

TLDR: Those seeing the end of the Republican party, must not be around the hard core enough to see how brainwashed they are by Fox, Rush and their churches. All this just solidifies their anger.

Although the math may not fit (because of the 5 year probe launch difference):-
The furthest man-made object from Earth is indeed Voyager 1....it's sister ship Voyager 2 is in third place & although launched 5 years before both of them in 1972 & sandwiched between them distance-wise from us is Pioneer 10.

It ceased communications in 2003, but both Voyagers are still doing well.