Thanks, db. I actually think the sounds of explosions came from tranformers in the building overheating and exploding. Want to hear a bomb? Check these...

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=transformer%20explodes&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1

Pretty easy to think those are bombs.

Look, this whole business is making me sick. I just can't stand discord with my fellow Sifters. I was asked to join this thread by a very prominent member, and I try and do what is asked of me. I must admit that my heart's not in it, but the number of people that vote these up made me think that it was worth finding an even handed open minded adversary and having honest, open debate because there are misconceptions that still need to be addressed. You and Gundam have been great, and this thread doesn't need to end as long as everyone stays open minded and civil. I hope it continues but I can't continue arguing on behalf of others, even if there is so much around 9/11 that is a *mystery to so many people.

So, peace, and thank you. I'll catch you around some cat video later.

Gundam, let me say first that I'm trying like hell to get over my prejudices against this administration and to deal with my paranoid nightmares over the whole situation which continues today, rapidly multiplying the heartbreaking deaths that happened that day. You seem confident and well informed and I have much to gain in challenging you.

That said I want to make sure that you read the post I left on that thread this morning, in case you see it later and are surprised by my tone. It might have been a sarcastic early morning post for me. Not sure now. I think this stuff must frustrate the hell out of you. (below for easy clikin')

http://www.videosift.com/video/New-Testimony-WTC7-Survivor-Barry-Jennings-Account

In reply to this comment by SDGundamX:
I do remember the Maine. I also remember that it was not used by McKinley as one of the reasons for declaring war on Spain. He did, in fact, try to oppose the war but in the face of overwhelming public and political pressure eventually acquiesced into declaring war for the purposes of freeing Cuba. Now, were there individuals in the government who saw the war as an excuse to grab Spain's other colonies? Absolutely. But that isn't proof that they set up an explosion on the Maine to start the war. You would need eyewitnesses or physical evidence to be able to make a plausible accusation.

That's all I'm asking for schmawy. Proof. Evidence. Something more than conjecture or coincidence. Say, for example, explosive residue found at the WTC site. Or verifiable videos of WTC 7's interior completely undamaged until moments before its collapse. Or corroborative testimony from several reliable witnesses that matches up. Like in the vid we're talking about, what does this guy's buddy have to say about the whole incident? What about the cops and firemen that were supposedly there? Where's their testimony? Surely they all heard these explosions too?

In reply to this comment by schmawy:
Remember the Maine, my friend.

Oh, Gundam, no need to give us your exasperated sigh. I know full well I have nothing to back up my intuition, I know that there is no evidence to prove my assertions. I know that you are convinced by the NIST report. I entered into this discussion knowing full well that I couldn't back it up and would get my ass handed to me. That's fine. It must be frustrating for you to carry the burden of all this truth and evidence and see that you are close to the only one to believe it. Previous videos that claim conspiracy are routinely voted to the front page with relatively little dissent. You are willing to accept the official story where so many are not, simply because they see a 47 story building plummet to the ground at near free-fall speed, without so much as a hiccup. As was quoted in the previous posts "what are you gonna believe, the truth or your lying eyes".

Thanks to Mink and Farhad for putting the horse before the cart. This is "chasing ghosts".

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Thanks for going charter Gundam!

>> ^enon:
Gundam and Drattus, you both missed his point by a mile-- he's referring to POTENTIAL life.


Enon, are you fucking stupid? In case you didn't notice I'm FOR stem cell research and wasn't arguing that point, noted it in the post and noted why I made the comment. It's a distraction to accuse people of positions they don't hold and argue issues they don't object to.

That doesn't mean my point of view is the only one, that I can't see why some would question it, nor that the only valid argument is the soul, and unsurprisingly your argument isn't the only one either. In the SINGLE respect that he spent so much time talking about an argument which sometimes doesn't apply as if it was the only possible argument, I didn't agree or find it helpful.

If you can't follow even that much I think you missed the point by a mile. If this is unfair I will apologize if needed, but personally I'm pretty tired of people telling us who we are, what we think, or why, and I don't care if it comes from Bill O'Reilly, Sam Harris, you or anyone else.

Gundam and Drattus, you both missed his point by a mile-- he's referring to POTENTIAL life.

Gundam, you make some good points. There is a possibility that both women committed suicide.

However, I cannot blame anyone for having conspiracy on the brain these days, because the biggest conspiracy of our time - the deliberate LIES told to the world to justify a war in Iraq - turned out to be TRUE. Also, the outing of covert agent Valerie Plame as retribution against her husband Joe Wilson turned out to be TRUE. So even though I don't believe in 9/11 conspiracies, I certainly don't fault anyone else for believing them, nor would I fault anyone for believing a conspiracy in these suicide cases. Let's not forget how Republican operatives tried to peddle the Vince Foster suicide as a murder, even though separate investigations clearly indicated that it was a suicide. Therefore the pundits and the media in general will probably try to say that Ms. Palfrey's suicide is nothing more than Vince Foster's was, regardless of any differences in the cases. I'm afraid that unless we catch someone, with evidence, AND with a confession, we will never know for certain what happened one way or another.

The huge fucking elephant in the room is that the Iraq War was based on lies, 4000+ Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead, and yet all the perpetrators of this crime against humanity are free. How sad and disturbing is that?

Upvoted for title!

Gundam: I fell asleep for 20 minutes in Intro to Social Psych and I'm pretty sure I was snoring.

This and Star Blazers were my introduction to Japanese animation.

My brother and I used to get up at 6AM to watch this on Saturday mornings on NBC when it first ran back in the early 80s. Growing up with American cartoons where no one ever got seriously hurt (think GI JOE), I can remember how shocked we both were when we realized this was a cartoon where people were actually dying. The biggest shock was when Roy Fokker died. We were like "Wait, this is a cartoon. A main character actually died in a cartoon?!?" We both thought it was the coolest thing ever. It was like, finally, they're not treating us like stupid little kids anymore. We can handle serious issues too.

It might not be the greatest animation series ever or anything, but it will always hold a special place in my heart. In a strange "butterfly-effect" sort of way it changed my life. Trying to find similar "serious" cartoons I stumbled on to the then completely unheard of world of anime through a Japanese friend--Gundam, Dragonball, etc. The more I learned about Japan, the more I fell in love with the Japanese language and culture. Eventually I wound up living in Tokyo for a time and later getting my BA in Japanese. Very strange to trace the beginnings of that odyssey to a Saturday morning cartoon.

wtf, Michael Jackson CANNOT beat a SD Gundam!

Actually, I've never seen Gundam Seed, I was just being the grumpy old man. You know, "you young punks and your skateboards!" kind of thing. I mostly dropped out of the anime scene a while ago so I skipped Seed.

Ahem! During the 1976-1988 (or around there) part of the video, it shows a clip of Gundam MS 08th Team, which I'm pretty sure was made in the 90s, not 80s :-P

Gundam Seed was stupid? If you had said any of the other Gundam series I would agree with you, Seed is untouchable.

Also, Trigun: best anime ever.

Evanglion and Akira are pretty overrated though. Both are perfect examples of every bad anime sterotype and neither of them have a particularly involving plot; making the mistake of *trying* to alienate their viewers and mistaking complexity for quality. From an artistic point of view they are excellent but the writer in me cringes.

1zin1, you missed a few around Street Fighter near the 2:23 - 2:27 range including Fatal Fury, Macross Plus, and my personal favorite a VERY brief flash of Vision of Escaflowne. And some more that I don't know... I'm a little shocked how many I did.

I had an argument with a friend of mine's son's friends when they were going to be going to Anime Expo this year. I was trying to tell them all of the great anime that they've never seen, but all they care about is their damn Naruto, stupid Gundam Seed and their Bleach.

I felt like a grumpy old man. "Damn punk kids! Back in my day it was Ranma 1/2, Bubblegum Crisis and Gunbuster! Whippersnappers never even heard of Char Aznable or 0083 Stardust Memory!"

Christ... Anyone want to buy a trunk of worthless old VHS tapes?

rotfl@bamdrew! I was thinking too she would be wearing something insane like a gundam suit, or optimus prime costume, lol.