I don't think you actually read up on the Al Anfal campaign if you wave it away as just Saddam gassing his own people. That was the least of the horrors he inflicted on the Kurds. If you don't care I can't make you, but I'll not idly ignore your ignorant claims it was less than what it was. ISIS hasn't even come close to it yet, and they'd need an incredible increase in their abilities and support to even try.

If you want to champion Saddam as the lesser evil, at least bother to study what he did more closely first. I'd also ask your opinion on Abu Ghraib and Fallujah.

As for American policy, I repeat my complete lack of concern for it when forming my opinion of what is good or better. I don't care whether America is some white knight or not, I care that Saddam gone is better than Saddam in power. My assessment of that doesn't depend on why America claims to have done it, nor on America's post actions or dealings with Saddam. Saddam gone leaves Shia and Kurdish Iraqis no longer leaving under fear of genocide(better than 60% of all Iraqis there). It leaves Saddams neighbouring countries no longer fearing another war of expansion and aggression from him.

And your on the right track with Hitler and Pol Pot when classing Saddam. Read about all he's done and you'll find they'd be right at home with him.

I'm with @blankfist on this one, just like I explained in this discussion.

Edit:

By the way, in this particular case I'm quite surprised by the clear line that the German government seems to be following. No military action without a clear UN mandate, and preferrably no military action at all. Instead, they urge the Russians and the Chinese to help them drag Assad in front of the ICC in Den Haag.

Follow the proper channels, otherwise you'll just breed contempt for the law. Or I should say more contempt for the law than you already breed by selectively enforcing it in the first place (WP in Gaza, WP in Fallujah, mustard/nerve gas vs Iran, DU rounds all over the world).

So I'm voting diplomatic solutions, even though embargos are NOT an option for me.

Edit #2: Well, seems like Germany has folded already. Didn't take long...

In the 2nd season of Louie, there's an amazing episode about his experiences of visiting Fallujah.

>> ^kulpims:

dead


fixed, thanks.

Wait, wait, wait.

This guy is discharged. Then, after he's out of the armed forces, he does something or other to piss off the military. So they waste god knows how much government money to hold a trial to retroactively change what they call the conditions of his discharge?

You're fucking with me, right?>> ^d3n4l1:

Here is a little education about the borderless idiot running the show:
"Kokesh enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in 1999, while still in high school in New Mexico.[3] In 2004, he served in Fallujah.[4] Working a checkpoint was a responsibility while in Iraq.[5] He brought home a pistol from Iraq in 2004,[3] violating military rules, and preventing him from returning on a second Iraq tour.[5] Kokesh "had risen to the rank of sergeant after three-and-a-half years in the Reserves" and "was demoted to corporal and soon thereafter discharged honorably with a re-enlistment code that basically said, 'you can't re-enlist.'"[5] Having experienced combat in Fallujah, Kokesh received the Combat Action Ribbon and the Navy Commendation Medal after his honorable discharge from active duty.[6]
...
After his discharge, and during a March 19, 2007, protest he attended, Kokesh was in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR);[5] a superior officer identified him in a photo caption in the Washington Post.[7] On "March 29, a Marine major sent him an e-mail to tell him he was being investigated for misconduct by appearing at a political event in uniform. Kokesh responded, telling the major what he thought" and used an expletive in his reply, resulting in an additional misconduct charge.[5] The charges were "brought under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which applies only to service members", confusing some veterans and lawyers.[5]
[edit] Hearing
In May 2007, a hearing was convened to consider changing Kokesh's military discharge from "honorable" to "other than honorable" on two points: "Disrespect toward a Superior Commissioned Officer", and violating "Wearing of the uniform" regulation.[8][9] The panel recommended Kokesh be given a "general discharge under honorable conditions",[10] a discharge status below "honorable", and above "other than honorable".[11] Kokesh appealed the decision, and was denied."
Would the soldiers at Valley Forge appreciate your "victims" cries of "Foul" [language]?

Here is a little education about the borderless idiot running the show:

"Kokesh enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in 1999, while still in high school in New Mexico.[3] In 2004, he served in Fallujah.[4] Working a checkpoint was a responsibility while in Iraq.[5] He brought home a pistol from Iraq in 2004,[3] violating military rules, and preventing him from returning on a second Iraq tour.[5] Kokesh "had risen to the rank of sergeant after three-and-a-half years in the Reserves" and "was demoted to corporal and soon thereafter discharged honorably with a re-enlistment code that basically said, 'you can't re-enlist.'"[5] Having experienced combat in Fallujah, Kokesh received the Combat Action Ribbon and the Navy Commendation Medal after his honorable discharge from active duty.[6]

...

After his discharge, and during a March 19, 2007, protest he attended, Kokesh was in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR);[5] a superior officer identified him in a photo caption in the Washington Post.[7] On "March 29, a Marine major sent him an e-mail to tell him he was being investigated for misconduct by appearing at a political event in uniform. Kokesh responded, telling the major what he thought" and used an expletive in his reply, resulting in an additional misconduct charge.[5] The charges were "brought under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which applies only to service members", confusing some veterans and lawyers.[5]
[edit] Hearing

In May 2007, a hearing was convened to consider changing Kokesh's military discharge from "honorable" to "other than honorable" on two points: "Disrespect toward a Superior Commissioned Officer", and violating "Wearing of the uniform" regulation.[8][9] The panel recommended Kokesh be given a "general discharge under honorable conditions",[10] a discharge status below "honorable", and above "other than honorable".[11] Kokesh appealed the decision, and was denied."

Would the soldiers at Valley Forge appreciate your "victims" cries of "Foul" [language]?

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Cenk. Proving again and again that liberal bias is as bad or worse than anything Rush has ever said.


Ehhh nope. Sorry but there's no liberal bias...the NY Times is not liberal it's statist. MSNBC isn't liberal it's reactionary.

Don't believe me find out which American Newspaper or Network reported the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health findings of Cancer victims and infant mortality in Fallujah Iraq due to American forces using uranium shells. They found a greater amount of leukemia there than in Japan after the Nuclear bombs were dropped. Thank you and have a nice day.

As a bonus find me a mention of us supporting Saddam Hussein during his worst atrocities to the run up to the War in Iraq. Dontcha think a Liberal Bias would've jumped all over that to stop the War if they were really against it?

In a medical first Hitchens's cancer had spread all the way to Fallujah before he was even diagnosed.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jul2010/fall-j23.shtml

>> ^MarineGunrock:
Just ask any of the Iraqi citizens that cheered, waved, said thank you to me and my brothers-in-arms. Ask the dozens more that I had the opportunity to have conversations with that tell me that they don't want us leaving, because when we do "bad men come."


We have asked the Iraqi citizens these questions, and every poll shows that %85 want us the fuck out of their country, and %75 think it's OK to fire at US soldiers.

When you have armored humvees filled with rednecks with big guns and itchy trigger fingers trapsing through your village, of course you're going to appear nice to them. When you have events like fallujah and Abu Ghraib, these people know better than to fuck with anyone wearing a US flag on their shoulder. It's common sense, not some misguided feeling that they're happy to have had USA destroy their country, torture and kill their citizens, and send over a million children into the underground sex industry.

The title, "Six days in Fallujah", seems, in protesters eyes, to be the problem. Had it been named "War is grim and people die unnecessarilly", (not very catchy, i know) maybe it would have been seen as ANTI war and not glorifying in it. As the video suggests, the developers aren't dumb, they chose the title for a reason. Maybe that reason was to promote it and they, once creating the controversy, caved in to the zealots..shame..Thank goodness there are Authors Publishers/distributors etc who have more back bone, and assume people have the intelligence to form their own opinions. Can you imagine Chritopher hitchins taking his best seller ("God is not Great". with the sub-title "How religion Poisons Everything".) to the publisher and them saying to Him; "Really good book Chris but the title is a tad controversial. Would it be ok if we changed the title to er, say," God is a nice man, but maybe a human concept". with a sub-title; "please dont get offended". I'm sure Hitchins would have gone ballistic and sought another publisher. Anyway, i'm pretty damn sure that any kid playing "Six days in Fallujah", wouldn't give a jot about it's historical significance, as all they want is entertainment. But hey, let's protect them from anything their young impressionable minds don't understand. We could start by banning any books relating to the slavery,torture,genecide,mutilation and subjucation of another race. Hmm. Any ideas on where we could begin?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'army, iraq, fallujah' to 'army, iraq, fallujah, 82nd airborne' - edited by kronosposeidon

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Iraq, Fallujah, Fighting, Kilo 35, Marines, Urban, Warfare, 2004' to 'Iraq, Fallujah, Fighting, Kilo 35, Marines, Urban, Warfare, 2004, nightline' - edited by kronosposeidon

Just another example of "Might Is Right".

White phosphorous was used by the US in Fallujah and it was used by Israel in Gaza.

Geneva Conventions only apply to rogue states.

WP was used extensively in Fallujah.

We have to destroy Gaza in order to save it.

All valid points jwray (except thinking that we can't learn anything from Vietnam.)
When this documentary aired in 2005, however, I don't remember anybody talking about WP. Ever since, there has been a critical eye cast on its use. I think that's a good thing.

The wikipedia article would be a good read for the critical viewer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre