>> ^Yogi:

>> ^bamdrew:
This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).
>> ^My_design:
Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...


The New York Times is definitely not Left Wing. For instance they report WITH GUSTO the atrocities of others but not of the United States. The New York Times only appears Left because it reports some things that the US does wrong around the world, where as other papers around the planet report much much more. We are insulated from these things so things appear Left when they are actually very much Right and in support of the State.


Yogi!

I don't see where we disagree... Maybe I wasn't clear; the opinion pages and editorials in the NYTimes are left-leaning, just as the opinion pieces and editorials on MSNBC are left-leaning. The news on MSNBC and NYTimes are NOT left-leaning, just as the news (typically) is not presented as right-leaning on Fox News.

People don't blog about or tweet about Fox News or MSNBC when they are just presenting the news, they share Rachel Maddow digging into someone, or Bill O'Reilly yelling about something. These aren't the news, just as the opinion pages of the NYT or the WSJ are not the news.


---------
In reply to this comment by Yogi:
>> ^bamdrew:

This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).
>> ^My_design:
Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...



The New York Times is definitely not Left Wing. For instance they report WITH GUSTO the atrocities of others but not of the United States. The New York Times only appears Left because it reports some things that the US does wrong around the world, where as other papers around the planet report much much more. We are insulated from these things so things appear Left when they are actually very much Right and in support of the State.

>> ^bamdrew:

This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).
>> ^My_design:
Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...



The New York Times is definitely not Left Wing. For instance they report WITH GUSTO the atrocities of others but not of the United States. The New York Times only appears Left because it reports some things that the US does wrong around the world, where as other papers around the planet report much much more. We are insulated from these things so things appear Left when they are actually very much Right and in support of the State.

>> ^TangledThorns:

Face it America, Obama is an empty suit propped up by the liberal media. That is why he lost to Romney. Oh, its not over yet as the pain of the VP debate is next week. Nobody expects Biden to do well.
2012 VP debate drinking game rules are as follows:
#1 When a Joe Biden gaffe makes you face palm in embarassment, take a drink.
#2 Face palm and shake your head, two drinks.
#3 Epic face palm with both hands, down the bottle and forget your worries.


Ryan can't even tell the truth of how fast he runs a marathon. Also there is no liberal media. Sorry it just doesn't exist.

This is MSNBC. MSNBC is the New York Times of networks... informative, accurate, and often very well presented, but with a left-wing opinion page. They don't pretend otherwise, unlike 'fair and balanced' Fox News. If you want the middle ground watch PBS or CNN (or BBC in the UK or ABC in Australia); the only bias on these networks is the unavoidable bias of choosing which stories to showcase (about international policy, about the environment, etc. can appear 'biased' but cover a topic of journalistic interest).

>> ^My_design:

Boy these guys are clearly routing for Obama ...

>> ^lantern53:

>> ^Sagemind:
Romney came across as a Putz.
Obama played it Classy.
I don't care about these opinion newscasters - as an average Joe, I'd say Obama played it cool but I don't see how Romney was winning the debate, everything that came out of his mouth was spin and rhetoric. Romney didn't display any kind of plan at all. He just kept repeating the same ol' stuff he's been saying all the time. He didn't go into details on anything even when he was challenged to do so.


We've found the one guy who called it for Obama.


Well Obama can stand there and knock people down all night if he wants..

http://youtu.be/n9mzJhvC-8E

Very interesting that he didn't; enuie or tactics?

In any case, this fella ain't getting through the next two without meeting pugilistic Obama, and anyone who knows recent history and has a sense of self preservation don't want that..

>> ^shinyblurry:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^shinyblurry:
It's no wonder liberals are melting down; President Obama couldn't have done worse last night. It was pretty shocking. I personally didn't expect Governor Romney to do very well. To my surprise, he looked way more presidential than the President did. The fact is that President Obama has been in a bubble the last four years, and I think this was an the emperor has no clothes moment. The press certainly hasn't done him any favors by coddling him and throwing him softball questions this entire time. He's never had to justify himself or his policies to anyone and this was a day of reckoning for him.
I also think this one debate has undone all of the negative advertising about Governor Romney that had come before it. The reason being is that he didn't even remotely resemble the person Democrats have been trying to define him as. People got to seem him unfiltered and unedited by the mainstream press, and he came across as a strong and competent leader who cares about them and has the skills and experience to be the President. I expect there will be more fireworks at the next debate.

Apparently we weren't watching the same debate. What I saw was two candidates talking about essentially the exact same policies. They were both Center Right...and one was more smiley and UP. So does the smiley guy win it for being smiley?
Whatever, they've still got a couple more "Games" left and when all is said and done whomever wins won't implement whatever ideas they expressed during the debates anyways. GOOD Game all! GO TEAM GO!!!

I think the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives in policy is that liberals want government to be their God. There were definitely differences between the two candidates on that specific topic. I don't subscribe to the team mentality; I cannot in good conscience vote for either candidate. I think America is getting the leaders it deserves, and these two candidates are a reflection of that. You reap what you sow.


That depends entirely on what you mean by "America". If you mean the American people, they didn't get together and make policies for these candidates to stick their names to, these candidates said vote for me and maybe I'll give you something. Now if by "America" you mean the elite, the people with the money who bascially dictate how society will run than I agree these candidates were chosen by them. The PR industry now gets to fight it out, and it's completely undemocratic. Even in Bolivia poor peasant farmers worked for a more democratic system and they got it, but that didn't stop them they kept at it.

Both these candidates will say whatever they want to get elected, and then they'll do whatever their masters who paid for them to get there want. That's how our "Democracy" works.

Also if you think Obama was a "Liberal" than you really have no idea what that means. If Obama was what we traditionally called "Liberal" who would've at least brought up or tried to reinstitute the Glass-Steagall act.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^shinyblurry:
It's no wonder liberals are melting down; President Obama couldn't have done worse last night. It was pretty shocking. I personally didn't expect Governor Romney to do very well. To my surprise, he looked way more presidential than the President did. The fact is that President Obama has been in a bubble the last four years, and I think this was an the emperor has no clothes moment. The press certainly hasn't done him any favors by coddling him and throwing him softball questions this entire time. He's never had to justify himself or his policies to anyone and this was a day of reckoning for him.
I also think this one debate has undone all of the negative advertising about Governor Romney that had come before it. The reason being is that he didn't even remotely resemble the person Democrats have been trying to define him as. People got to seem him unfiltered and unedited by the mainstream press, and he came across as a strong and competent leader who cares about them and has the skills and experience to be the President. I expect there will be more fireworks at the next debate.

Apparently we weren't watching the same debate. What I saw was two candidates talking about essentially the exact same policies. They were both Center Right...and one was more smiley and UP. So does the smiley guy win it for being smiley?
Whatever, they've still got a couple more "Games" left and when all is said and done whomever wins won't implement whatever ideas they expressed during the debates anyways. GOOD Game all! GO TEAM GO!!!


I think the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives in policy is that liberals want government to be their God. There were definitely differences between the two candidates on that specific topic. I don't subscribe to the team mentality; I cannot in good conscience vote for either candidate. I think America is getting the leaders it deserves, and these two candidates are a reflection of that. You reap what you sow.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Cliff's Notes version: Obama got SPANKED.
Romney accused His Majesty of "Trickle-down government", meaning the intended recipients of any big government program are the last ones in line.
Also, I don't know where Ears gets his figure of "saving" American families $3500 on average. Even if it's proven true, the middle class and small businesses still lose paying obamacare's NEW taxes.


Do you know where Romney got any of his figures? See I don't know where anyone got their figures because the media doesn't talk about that. No one does any legitimate studies anymore, they just put out bullshit for the parties to use. There are good economists with good research, they won't be quoted or used in the media, because it's not about that.

>> ^shinyblurry:

It's no wonder liberals are melting down; President Obama couldn't have done worse last night. It was pretty shocking. I personally didn't expect Governor Romney to do very well. To my surprise, he looked way more presidential than the President did. The fact is that President Obama has been in a bubble the last four years, and I think this was an the emperor has no clothes moment. The press certainly hasn't done him any favors by coddling him and throwing him softball questions this entire time. He's never had to justify himself or his policies to anyone and this was a day of reckoning for him.
I also think this one debate has undone all of the negative advertising about Governor Romney that had come before it. The reason being is that he didn't even remotely resemble the person Democrats have been trying to define him as. People got to seem him unfiltered and unedited by the mainstream press, and he came across as a strong and competent leader who cares about them and has the skills and experience to be the President. I expect there will be more fireworks at the next debate.


Apparently we weren't watching the same debate. What I saw was two candidates talking about essentially the exact same policies. They were both Center Right...and one was more smiley and UP. So does the smiley guy win it for being smiley?

Whatever, they've still got a couple more "Games" left and when all is said and done whomever wins won't implement whatever ideas they expressed during the debates anyways. GOOD Game all! GO TEAM GO!!!

I share Chris Matthew's bewildered outrage. Obama simply forgot that these debates are pure political theater while Romney did not.

It would be laughable if the consequences weren't so dire that Obama took the intellectual, policy wonk approach to woo the small, yet inexplicably important undecided voter. To be undecided at this point in the election should be instant disqualification from voting, parenting, and driving, imho.

>> ^bobknight33:

To say that Romney is a bitch of the rich is truly one sided. How can you not also notice that Obama is a rich guy steeply in bed with wall street. Obama is the the Corporate whore. >> ^Sagemind:
On the Flip side, Obama didn't come out with his fists up, which is not his style by the way. But there is a piece of us that just wants him to take a strip out of Romney and expose him for the stuck-up wealthy, son-of-a-bitch, paid-off-by-the-corporations-lackey that he is!



Again absolutely correct. What this is is a PR spectacle. People were literally talking about this in the context of Football teams. It's an absolute joke, they said nothing, we learned nothing, one smiled more and seemed happier. How can this be our democracy?!

I think that's because yeah Obama makes us look like meat and potatoes but Romney makes Obama look like meat and potatoes.
>> ^bobknight33:

To say that Romney is a bitch of the rich is truly one sided. How can you not also notice that Obama is a rich guy steeply in bed with wall street. Obama is the the Corporate whore. >> ^Sagemind:
On the Flip side, Obama didn't come out with his fists up, which is not his style by the way. But there is a piece of us that just wants him to take a strip out of Romney and expose him for the stuck-up wealthy, son-of-a-bitch, paid-off-by-the-corporations-lackey that he is!

To say that Romney is a bitch of the rich is truly one sided. How can you not also notice that Obama is a rich guy steeply in bed with wall street. Obama is the the Corporate whore. >> ^Sagemind:

On the Flip side, Obama didn't come out with his fists up, which is not his style by the way. But there is a piece of us that just wants him to take a strip out of Romney and expose him for the stuck-up wealthy, son-of-a-bitch, paid-off-by-the-corporations-lackey that he is!