in all honesty I think they're all just complete fucktards, but in this case neither Ben Carson nor Donald Trump were in the wrong.

This was a huge fuck up, by the presenters, and the presenters alone.

Christie was barely into the stage and still being applauded, and the idiot decided to call Ben Carson, which obviously didn't hear his name.

Those idiot presenters, kept on saying names, without even glancing back to see if the candidates were coming in.

When Ben Carson was told by the crew to advance, as he was about to get to the stage, they announced another person. So obviously he stayed back.

Then Trump, not wanting to be wrongly presented refused to go as well.

I can't believe I'm saying this... but..... Carson and Trump did nothing wrong. BLBLBLBUAAARRRHGHHH..... oh sorry. I just vomited all over the keyboard.

*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Ben-Carson-And-Donald-Trump-Wont-Go-On-Stage

This video has been nominated as a duplicate of this video by eric3579. If this nomination is seconded with *isdupe, the video will be killed and its votes transferred to the original.

What a clusterfuck that was. It was obvious Ben Carson didn't hear his name due to the clapping. You would think that could have been easily managed if the announcers and or ABC were competent enough to improvise a bit and go off script to manage that embarrassment.

I can't call it since I posted it, and this is a slightly longer version, but this...
*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Ben-Carson-And-Donald-Trump-Wont-Go-On-Stage

Wow....Carson really meant a "moment" of silence for victims, didn't he.

Did Christie really just say that working with congress is going to make his eyes glaze over? He knows that that's a large part of the job he's trying to get, doesn't he?

"They don't need to be forced, they need to be asked." is about the worst, most uninformed, proof of a lack of understanding answer Fiorina could have given to the question..."They say they WONT help the FBI, now, crack encrypted communications from ISIS, should they be forced to?"

"You would carpet bomb where ISIS is...not a city, but the location of the troops."...I guess Cruz just doesn't know the ISIS troops are mainly in the cities.

"If you're an American citizen, and you decide to join up with ISIS, we're not going to read you your Miranda rights, you're going to be treated as an enemy combatant, a member of an army attacking this country..." shows clearly that Rubio doesn't understand 'innocent until proven guilty', the basis of our legal system, and has decided that anyone ACCUSED of joining ISIS deserves illegal imprisonment without trial and without end. Marco Rubio has joined ISIS....go get him boys.

"Getting our smartest and getting our best to infiltrate their...internet." That's going to be fairly hard for Trump after he rounds up all the Muslims and deports them for being in the wrong religion, or executes them for something a family member did. I don't really think our best and smartest Muslims are going to want to work for him at that point.

I'm pretty sure that's the first time in history that Trump complained about being mentioned too often.

I'm stunned that I watched the whole thing. My brain hurts, and I just threw up in my mouth a little...but I did it.

Does it really matter? Trump has already accomplished the goal conservatives needed him to. The best way to keep the country divided, with more faith in corporations and churches than in the government, is to devalue the democratic process, and make it look ridiculous.

The reasonable part of the country is disgusted that a Trump, or a Palin, or a Carson, or a Cain, was ever treated as a serious contender for leading the country, and will lose a little of their faith in democracy. The true believers on the other hand, who buy into these idiots, will also be disgusted and confused when their candidates inevitably fail, and lose a little of their faith in democracy.

No matter who wins the actual election, the fact that the next president will have been up on the national stage debating with a reality show host who called them dumb, already tarnishes them and their office. Even if the Republicans lose, they'll have strengthened the American belief that politics are dumb and petty and need to be reined in, which is the Republican agenda. A Republican president would just be icing on that cake.

Francis Fukuyama does an interesting overview in his Political Order and Political Decay on how trust in governmental institutions is one pillar of any functioning democracy. Putting Trump and the other clowns on stage seems like a textbook action to undermine that trust.

To address your points:

>> Bush: Disaster. Remember, remember the Patriot Act?
GW is not up for re-election and to the best of my knowledge Jeb had nothing to do with writing the Patriot Act. He supports it, but almost all the candidates do. I'm not a huge fan of Jeb, but he actually seems like the smart one in his family. Would still prefer him not to be president.

>> Clinton: Lying, manipulative, currently under Federal investigation by America's FBI department. Really?
@newtboy already addressed the so-called "email-gate" or whatever. As for "lying, manipulative"? You're kidding, right? She's a politician. They're all lying and manipulative. Ultimately, I think Hillary will probably get the democratic nomination and while I'm not a huge fan, she's an order of magnitude better than any of the republicans.

>> Bernie Sanders: Self-purported Socialist. Lovely.
So what? "Socialist" is not a bad word. Many of the highest ranked countries for citizen health and happiness are socialist. America needs to grow the fuck up and get over it's childish clinging to McCarthyism. A bit of socialism would do it the world of good.

>> Ben Carson: I have no particular qualms, by all means intelligent, however, doesn't say anything beyond the bloated party line.
Ben Carson, "intelligent"? Are you fucking kidding me? The guy's borderline insane. How he ever got to be a surgeon baffles me.
This is a guy who thinks that "Joseph built the pyramids to store grain", that doesn't understand fucking magnets, er, gravity and believes evolution was ‘encouraged by’ Satan. He's a fucking moron.

>> That brings us full circle back to Trump... He has a real, tangible plan...
to fuck everything up? Seriously, Trump is an idiot and would be the worst thing to happen to the USA (and by extension the world) in decades. His ignorance is matched only by his ineptitude.

>> As for Obama, and I include him because many seem to think he is great for some reason..
a) I don't think he's great, he's been a huge disappointment and
b) he's irrelevant to this debate
but anyway...

>> His healthcare plan failed(look it up)
I did and it hasn't.

>> America is now over $18 Trillion in debt.
I wonder if the previous president starting two wars has anything to do with that?

>> And he insists on throwing pebbles at ISIS while the EU does all the fighting
Way too big a topic to address here. Post on another video if you want to discuss it further.

>> I am not necessarily saying that Trump is a good person, or would make a good President, but he would me loads better than the other shrimps for candidates...
He's not, he wouldn't and better than an invertebrate with a brain only barely recognisable as such is not a sufficient bar for the presidency.

To quote my view, which I mistakenly sent to Chaos Engine:


Who would you have Americans elect?

Bush: Disaster. Remember, remember the Patriot Act?

Clinton: Lying, manipulative, currently under Federal investigation by America's FBI department. Really?

Bernie Sanders: Self-purported Socialist. Lovely.

Ben Carson: I have no particular qualms, by all means intelligent, however, doesn't say anything beyond the bloated party line.

That brings us full circle back to Trump... He has a real, tangible plan. Excluding "Feelings" and "Moral Obligation" and any other overused progressive excuses that simply cloud the fact that there is no fact there, his plan/s would work, and are necessary if America means to continue its lead as the second greatest nation on Earth(Sorry America, national pride, you know?).

As for Obama, and I include him because many seem to think he is great for some reason... His healthcare plan failed(look it up). America is now over $18 Trillion in debt. ...And he insists on throwing pebbles at ISIS while the EU does all the fighting... His speeches never really address anything tangibly, its all "Feeling" and fluff(watch the one where he addressed the attack on France).

I am not necessarily saying that Trump is a good person, or would make a good President, but he would me loads better than the other shrimps for candidates...

Who would you have Americans elect, sir?

Bush: Disaster. Remember, remember the Patriot Act?

Clinton: Lying, manipulative, currently under Federal investigation by America's FBI department. Really?

Bernie Sanders: Self-purported Socialist. Lovely.

Ben Carson: I have no particular qualms, by all means intelligent, however, doesn't say anything beyond the bloated party line.

That brings us full circle back to Trump... He has a real, tangible plan. Excluding "Feelings" and "Moral Obligation" and any other overused progressive excuses that simply cloud the fact that there is no fact there, his plan/s would work, and are necessary if America means to continue its lead as the second greatest nation on Earth(Sorry America, national pride, you know?).

As for Obama, and I include him because many seem to think he is great for some reason... His healthcare plan failed(look it up). America is now over $18 Trillion in debt. ...And he insists on throwing pebbles at ISIS while the EU does all the fighting... His speeches never really address anything tangibly, its all "Feeling" and fluff(watch the one where he addressed the attack on France).

I am not necessarily saying that Trump is a good person, or would make a good President, but he would me loads better than the other shrimps for candidates...

He makes a persuasive argument with regards to the length of campaigns in the US vs elsewhere.

I somewhat disagree with the idea that we need people with government experience to be elected as presidents, senators, representatives, etc. though. Mainly because "government experience" is just bullshit code for "been in Washington long enough to be bought and paid for by some mega-corporation and its lobbyists".

...Not to say that Carson or Trump are ideal (or, you know, even "adequate") candidates because they don't have government experience. However, someone with zero experience but having good intentions, a reasonable amount of common sense, and a High School Civics class level of knowledge about how government is supposed to work would likely end up being a better candidate than either of them (or Hillary, or Sanders, or whoever else). Especially if we could keep lobbyists away from them for a while.

Right now, especially for the Legislative branch, lobbies get way too much bang for their buck buying the loyalties of newbies that are very likely to become entrenched incumbents for years if not decades. Sweep everybody out after a term or two and at least they would have to try their luck buying off somebody new (and hopefully a bit more idealistic) every election cycle instead of letting it ride for years and years...

Ben Carson thinks the Jews should have had guns, then the Holocaust would never had happened.

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I have to wonder what people like carson say when you present them with the actual facts and papers. This kind of willful blindness is some scary shit.