Another flat denial with absolutely zero facts…that’s what’s called infantile whining, bob.

“Stupid and gullible”…
Says the man who has gotten every single fact wrong over the last 10+ years.
Says the guy who says Jan 6 was a false flag.
Says the man who claimed the election was stolen (and believed the hundreds of lies that went along with the big lie).
Says the man who said it was a great time to go all in, mortgage the house, borrow all you can and buy all the Tesla stock you can when it hit $400, and continued the same advice as it plunged to near $100. Oddly enough, when it hit bottom, you stopped telling people to buy! WTF!?!
Says the man who denies climate change.
Says the man who said Jan 6 was non violent.
Says the man who said Mr Pelosi was attacked by his gay lover, not a typical violent MAGA nutjob trying to murder Nancy.
Says the man who said covid was a nothing burger requiring absolutely no action.
Says the man who said vaccines are more dangerous than the disease.
Says the man who was alive in 2020 but still tries to say Trump was great for the economy and Biden is bad.
Says the man who still believes the NEXT whistleblower against Hunter will finally be a real whistleblower with proof, not another Chinese spy or another paid actor with zero proof of anything.
Says the man who bought every single idiotic racist lie from Qanon for the last 8 years.
Says the man who, when presented with hundreds of high level republicans convicted of sex abuse and child sex crimes (and lists of hundreds and hundreds more in the wings), including your officially a rapist ex president, says “democrats, the party of debauchery” without being able to show any debauchery by democrats.

I could continue this list of things you got wrong all day long, just like I could send you page after page of high level republicans convicted of child rape and sex abuse charges all day long. You believe stupid nonsense propaganda and deny facts and statistics as a matter of course. You are always absolutely 100% certain of what you claim despite having zero evidence and being told by people who lied to you dozens of times before.

There has never, not for one second, ever been another person 1/2 as stupid or gullible as yourself here on this platform. You get everything 100% wrong, then disappear when you’re twisting and lying doesn’t convince a single person of your lies, then you return in a week with a new set of baseless lies and nonsense.

I’ve spent years debunking the insane right wing lies you spout with facts and figures and references telling you where they come from….you don’t give references because where your “information “ comes from is embarrassing….random internet trolls and disgraced sources like Glen Beck and Alex Jones who both have repeatedly and under oath admitted even they don’t believe 10% of the nonsense they spread, but it makes money selling anger and stupidity to morons, and you just love to lap it up.

It’s actually impressive you are so self unaware that you don’t see how wrong you have been consistently for over a decade. It takes some serious head in the sand denial of reality to be you.

So government should just stop paying for previous spending? That somehow saves money? You MUST explain how you think that works.

Seriously…dumping $10 TRILLION from private accounts and TRILLIONS more from the treasury SAVES MONEY!?! EXPLAIN HOW THAT WORKS.

Making it more difficult and expensive to borrow money, harder to sell treasury bonds, and making all future debt payments much more expensive permanently SAVES MONEY?

How does it work when the right has stopped negotiating and gone home until Tuesday, so can’t even get the cuts they demand under any circumstances now?

Inflation is due to excessive government printing more money to spend instead of raising money…mainly under Trump.

If you like getting poorer by wasting tens of trillions of dollars for spite, causing major global depressions, death, and destruction, insanely high unemployment, never before seen levels of homelessness, market crashes, high interest rates, and national bankruptcy, be for MAGA and team.

Edit: New reporting indicates the newest Republican demand to release their hostage, the economy, is a $3.5 TRILLION tax cut for the rich and corporations. More proof they don’t care about debt or deficit, only wealth transfer to the rich as fast as possible.
If you like bankrupting the country and starting a depression by choices be for Trump and team.

ROTFLMFAHS!!!
Biden has cut the deficit in half, by over $1.5 TRILLION PER YEAR since 2020. Trump raised it every year, more than tripling it in 2020! You clearly haven’t thought your position through.

So that’s a “yes”…you support the terroristic taking the economy hostage and murdering it if the right isn’t capitulated too like a kidnapper with his knife to your children’s throats. You think the right thing to do is give the terrorist kidnapper anything they want and let them walk away to do it again next week. Sinking ever lower, Gary.

America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists, that only emboldens them….if you were an American and not a terrorist you would know that.

You support terroristic legislating by blackmail because you know your party is incapable of Democratic legislating and has no love for America or its citizens. You support economy destroying threats because your party only knows how to destroy economies but you hope they can blame Biden if he signs off on any “deal”.


1) you were more than fine with spending like a drunken sailor on things that hurt America when Trump added 1/3 of the total debt in one term, crashed the economy, blew up the debt and deficit, killed 1 million Americans and disabled 2 million, and created 15% unemployment…you actually want to go back. Biden has spent exponentially less, and boosted revenue massively, both help the debt.
2) you moron, paying the bills you already racked up isn’t spending more. Not paying them is WASTING TRILLIONS for absolutely nothing…clearly what the right prefers. You want to max out the credit card on nonsense for 4 years then tell Democrats they can’t spend a dime except on Republican corporate welfare programs or you’ll just not pay the bill and get the card cancelled, knowing it will make the entire family homeless, handing the family farm over to China who holds our debt and can forclose. 🤦‍♂️

Estimates are near 8 million jobs lost and over $10 TRILLION in private stock losses expected in just the short term, far worse if it’s a long term problem…TRILLIONS in government losses and TRILLIONS MORE EVERY YEAR in higher interest rates…a complete government shutdown as government employees go unpaid so stop working (but continue to rack up salaries that will be paid eventually, for not working)…and a global depression worse than the Republican caused deregulation recession of ‘08.

I dare you to claim evaporating $10 trillion somehow SAVES money….I double dog dare you.

You are prepared to get poorer for nothing at all while STILL having the debt grow thanks to Trump’s outrageous spending spree, but are insistent that Republican spending not lose a dime.
Every Republican program should be cancelled first, all those contracts/bills to build the wall defaulted, all those military programs making equipment we no longer use cancelled, million dollar fake “investigations” that have only exposed the criminal hypocrisy of the right and not corroborated a single accusation cancelled, the tax breaks for billionaires and corporations that did NOT create a boom they caused a crash cancelled, any and all federal payments to red states cancelled because it only makes them reliant on the federal government which is like slavery…then not only would no loss of the societal safety net (guaranteeing a wave of homelessness never seen), 1 million vets would not be made homeless, etc AND the debt would actually be lowered.

You love the idea of getting poorer for spite and nothing more, dumbshit. If you just stop paying your credit card, the debt isn’t forgiven, it raises exponentially with higher interest and fees and lowers your ability to borrow more, that’s what’s already happened and will be so much worse in the depression by choice the right wants to cause. The money will still be spent, it will just cost exponentially more to borrow it.

Republicans have left the Capitol for their 5 day weekend to return Tuesday to restart “negotiations” they are pretending to be involved in, meaning default is now guaranteed without some legal wrangling by Biden to end run them. He should have done so in February.

The damage this is going to cause the economy is ten fold what it claims to be trying to save. It is clearly not about saving money, it’s 100% about blocking any democratic legislation by usurping the president is control of the purse strings. You would never accept this from the left. You know it too.

I know anyone not a brain dead cultist slug knows this, this fight isn’t over the debt, it’s about control…control from the minority by terrorism. We need a second amendment solution…only 20 representatives need to miss the vote for sanity to return.

Incorrect, sir.

First, I think it’s a typo, because Republicans ARE the party of defrauding and that’s incontrovertible and undeniable by anyone but bob.

There’s enough Republicans in office that put their politics above country that default is a real possibility. Fortunately they now PLAN to resume talks (but only if no Republican gets upset and balks).
Democrats aren’t playing any game. They should be absolutely refusing to even discuss negotiating over paying our bills and refusing to bankrupt America, but instead are accepting the blackmail scheme and are negotiating away rights and programs to the terrorists holding a gun to the economy’s head.
This only guarantees they will do the exact same thing every year. Any compromise at all is capitulation to economic terrorism, which invites more.

We have NEVER been anywhere near this position. We have “negotiations” over the debt ceiling, but have never gone more than a few days until the responsible limit for delay. We are now at the point where, if we don’t get a plan both sides agree on, get it out of committee, get a full house vote scheduled and taken, move it to the senate for debate, get it approved (hopefully with no changes at all or it returns to the house), get a senate vote scheduled and taken and passed, send it to Biden for a signature, then implement it….all by next Wednesday or we default. (Edit: now consider part of the Republican demands are their as yet unwritten NEW spending cut bill be passed BEFORE that entire process even starts).
We have never been within four months of this point, and there’s been some amazing money juggling and many projects “postponed” (cancelled) that had won hard fought congressional approval and funding just to stretch our ability to pay debts this far.

We hit our borrowing/debt limit in January, what’s normally considered the “due date”. In the past, negotiations have never come closer than in 2011 when it got to only two days until the debt limit was reached, and it cost well over a billion dollars in higher interest rates alone. We are now over 4 months past that point today, with absolutely no plan on how to move forwards.

This is not normal, has not happened every 4 years, and in fact has never once happened in our history. I expect our national “credit rating” to slip even if we pull off a Hail Mary, which is looking less likely daily. We’ve already lost hundreds of millions in lost international investments because who wants to invest in a country trying to bankrupt itself?

1) in the 50’s, the time period MAGA wants to return to, colleges were often free with higher admission standards. Do you advocate free college for anyone qualified?

2) there’s a shock

3) that goes for abortions too, if you really want it you’ll find a way, but the “ways” left are all dangerous.

4) you said he was successful despite the fact that he left high school to support his family before…but ok, now he graduated public high school, and is the smartest man you know. Telling.
My mother graduated Rice university Suma Cum Laude then returned for a masters in English. Dad graduated in the top 1% of his class from Stanford with a chemistry major, then started a highly successful international high tech insulation company making insulation for nuclear power plants in the 70’s. (Your dad may have worked for my dad. Is his name Frank F?)

5) Neither could have succeeded as they did if they had to pay today’s rates for college, or if each had hundreds of thousands in debt to pay back. Both scored 1590 on their SAT. Neither got scholarships or loans (Rice was free, dad’s parents and part time jobs paid for Stanford). Neither “fucked around”.

6) Colleges charge more because people will pay it, because a degree is an absolute necessity to be successful in the business world (unless you inherit tens of millions). If you drop the amount people can borrow for school, they’ll just accept intellectually poorer students (like you) that CAN pay. Supply and demand….that doesn’t mean you discount your in high demand product because your preferred customer can’t afford it so long as someone can. Duh.

Your point?
Do you somehow think that invalidates something I said….because I don’t see it. I just said seizing his passports indicates he’s a flight risk….having a plane is another flight risk factor.
Planes can be grounded….or seized….and require a lot of maintenance.

Funny that you instantly jump to “Trump can still flee the country when he needs to, he has his own plane”, nice that his need to flee isn’t in question for you, that’s a start.….
…and does he? Trump force one hasn’t been seen for a while has it, and Trump doesn’t have much cash to fix it. What I read is he’s been flying mostly in borrowed private planes since he left office.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2022/07/08/eric-trump-teases-the-return-of-trump-force-one-757-private-jet/?sh=1a86f4503b4b

Now, why would he have 3 passports? Don’t think I didn’t notice you just deflected.

Wow.
Sounds incredibly similar the Trump family.
Nepotism to the extreme, massive borrowing, huge financial ties to Russia and China, huge corruption and theft problems at the top, completely ignoring the plight of the quickly growing poor populace, relying on questionable at best future earnings to repay massive overspending wasted on useless wasteful projects, living lavish lifestyles as the country dwindles, printing money to pay for internal projects, causing massive inflation, refusing to leave office, ….

This could be America if Trump gets a second term. Good find, Bob.

So, you want to remove all actual Republicans, especially any with scruples, morals, or love of democracy, and replace them with more know nothing, bat shit crazy, hypocritical, abusive, insanely thin skinned, anti democracy asshole morons like MTG and Bobert that always put party before country, and Great Leader before party….right?

Because you say they are real Republicans, not the people who shaped the party your entire adult life….right?

Only the people who follow Trump, the lifetime Democrat who changed parties because, as he himself said, you can convince the right of any crazy thing and get them to vote based on nonsense (paraphrased, not quoted), who are vehemently against tax and spend, but love borrow and spend, who care deeply about the debt and deficit only when they aren’t in control, who care so much about inflation that they block any nomination to the fed, making it impossible to take real meaningful action to fight inflation.…..only they are actual Republicans. Right?

You are such a silly man.

Oops, sorry, the fake, slanted, taken out of context news organizations….those are all the news organization accounts on Trump’s Pravda Social.

They were caught over the weekend creating multiple fake accounts, with logos, pretending to be the exact news organizations Trump constantly called fake news like CNN. They created these fake accounts because looking like they had those news organizations on his platform made it seem a bit more legitimate. 8 days in and it’s already a total shit show of a propaganda website.

Also, security experts say stay as far away as possible, there’s no security on the site, and it likely installs all kinds of malware. It doesn’t actually work as a website yet because they seem to have stolen the code from Twitter but don’t actually know how to make it work, they can’t even get people signed up, and it’s already populated with mostly fake accounts….fake liberal accounts created by Trumpists to laugh at, fake Trumpist accounts created by liberals to fuck with the site from, fake accounts created by Russians to spread division and propaganda, and now fake accounts created by the creators to give their site credibility by riding the coattails of those “fake news” organizations and borrowing/stealing credibility from them.
ROTFLMFAHS!!,

A German mark had value….until it didn’t. Your opinion of “fiat money” isn’t universal by any stretch. You say it’s universally better. I wholeheartedly disagree, and point to Germany and Venezuela as proof. They aren’t outliers either, (looking at Africa).

Gold is useful and valuable. Digital footprints aren’t. Paper notes aren’t. Printed circuits, connectors, anti oxidation, actual physical money, jewelry, etc. gold has intrinsic value, a dollar bill has about 13210 joules, so its intrinsic worth is about 1 small 1 gram stick as kindling and little more….no matter if it’s a $1 or $500 bill or a check for billions. Again, see Germany, where bills were more valuable as firewood than money.

This deflation idea again. Give me 3 examples of deflation harming/ending a nation on the gold standard please, I’ve never heard of it happening. (Edit: as far as I can find, I’m no economics professor, for the most part the gold standard was abandoned worldwide in the early 1930’s and the last remnants removed in the early 70’s by Nixon)

Explain how unsecured notes guard against speculation….don’t just claim it. I don’t see it, people made a mint short selling Venezuelan (and other failed) dollars….speculating they would crash….they did. What?

GDP is the metric that imparts value to unsecured notes offered by countries.

I think you had a mini stroke, the paragraph starting USofA is a word salad with no meaning.

Name 3. I named Germany post ww1….they didn’t get to borrow or ignore their debts. What are you talking about?

So, the only ones that don’t/can’t borrow are all the ones that need to.

Pretending basing your dollar on Bitcoin is the same as basing it on gold is outrageous idiotic bullshit. Just nonsense. Utterly moronic and pure fantasy. Don’t try moving the goalposts, that’s what you said.

Yes, the fed will take gold. They don’t take Bitcoin, do they? How about shells? Pebbles?

Jesus, you just want to argue. You’re rambling, switching positions and going off on tangents.
It’s not about whether someone might accept it, it’s about whether it’s universally accepted at one value and about holding its accepted long term value. People once gladly accepted beanie babies as payment….stupid people.
Arcata Ca printed up Arcata dollars….you could get them cheap, businesses took them. Wanna put your nest egg into them? You say that’s good money, as good as dollars. I’ll sell them to you for gold, and let’s see who’s doing better in 10 years. Or I’ll sell you pebbles for gold. Any currency you want, I’ll sell you for gold. How’s that working with pebbles or shells? Can you buy currency with them?

It has everything to do with how much it’s worth. Stop jumping subjects because your point is failing to convince. An economy based on pebbles fails because their neighbors don’t value pebbles, but if their pebbles are gold, they succeed because gold is valued universally.

What are you talking about, the gold standard’s ability to keep up? Huh?! No keep up necessary, no slow down required, gold trades exactly as fast as everything else. What is this nonsense?!?

You mean you can’t overspend and go deep into debt?! And that’s bad?! In your opinion, not many economists….and what makes you think you can’t borrow against gold? Secured loans are easier and cheaper to come by. WHAT?!?

Yes, unsecured paper money can just be printed forever, you CAN “sell the universe”. (Or sell dollars who’s overall value is based on your country’s value) over and over, then print more and sell 9/10 again, print more, sell again. Eventually that money is worth less than it costs to print, and your creditors get paid off in dollars worth a tiny fraction of what they lent you. Not if it’s backed with gold.

Miracle cure?!? Quote it. I think you misread. Secured notes being better than unsecured notes is not “miracle cure” or perfection, it’s just measurably better, safer, and more stable. No system is perfect.

A dollar has value if you can buy shit for a dollar.

Gold likewise has no exchange value if you cant exchange it for goods and services. Its rare and chemically stable and good for memorial coins, has many technical uses and looks cute, but otherwise it hardly matters what symbol for money you choose. There is 200 years of experience with fiat money and gold and silver standards and fiat money has been better, not just usually better or better in some scenario, universally better.

Symbolic money is practical and facilitates quicker turn around prevents deflation makes speculative runs on currency harder and smoothes the economic bumps in the road in general.

GDP is just a metric. Not a bad one but not the actual goal.

USofA is teh most developed. Should have used growing. Deflation in an economy that is growing kills growth.

Restarting countries not only get to ignore their debts, they immediatelly start borrowing again.

The only countries that dont borrow are countries no-one will lend to and countries so rich in some silly resource they can float high in the international currency system without borrowing. Borrowing is good for bussiness.

What is outrageous idiotic bullshit? Believing pegging the value of your paper note to some hoarded luxury makes it a better representation of the mean value of goods and services bought and sold? I could do without gold except for the jacks on my audio cables (just kidding). It does not matter what I exchange for food and gas, if it gets me food and gas, its good money.

Money is what you can pay taxes with. Do they take gold?

If you insist your dollar has the value of some weight of gold how does that influence the willingness of someone else to sell you shit? Unless they specifically intend to buy gold at a fixed price they dont care. They are going to use your dolar to buy some other shit from someone else. So if you take the actual currency out of the equation, when you decide on buying and selling shit you are intuitively comparing that decision with all the other decisions about buying and sellin that you know of. The currency is just a good way to count the measure of usefullness of a product or service and compare among many. Pebbles, bottletops, dollars, gold, pearls, all just a number.

A dollar could be backed by gold or it could not, this has zero impact on the transactions made. What matters is how many transactions are made, at what value, and how much money is available to the entire marketplace in a given period of time. Transactions quickly pass the ability of a gold standard to keep up. If you want a gold standard you have to slow transactions down because you dont have the money for them.

This is why markets need some regulation, otherwise someone might sell the universe twice and then default on one. But a gold standard, at least the type of gold standard I believe was talked about in this thread as a miracle cure, would be too limiting.

If the dollar has no actual value…you’re sunk from the start.

Improving gdp is the only way to add value today….much easier said than done, and possible to go backwards at light speed.

Are you calling the US a developing country? Deflation isn’t a concern for most. It’s pretty rare.

If you improve the economy artificially, the bill will come due someday inconvenient and likely cause depression, not just recession.

Restarting countries didn’t all borrow, some tried to take over the world and ignore all their debts. Just saying.

If you have gold backing your dollar, even if your dollar somehow collapsed you’ve still got all the gold. That’s just one reason it’s smart. If you don’t issue dollars for every ounce of gold in reserve, you can add dollars without the risk of inflation, then remove them when possible.

You keep saying it has no advantages, I’ve listed many.

Outrageous idiotic bullshit. Gold is a commodity universally valued. Bitcoin is worse than nothing, it costs money just by existing and has absolutely no value besides what idiots will pay, that’s like basing your economy on beanie babies and saying it’s the same as physical gold. WTF man?

If youre a normal country you are always living on credit, if for no other reason, then because it is super easy and cheap to borrow. Also you have to, to make it to the next pay check (tax collection). First your subjects have to produce and sell, then you can collect taxes.

You dont base the value of the dollar on anything. You offer it as a commodity to the market. If your economy sucks or you print too much money the dollar goes down, which can help the economy. Printing money doesnt automatically help the economy though, it just creates space and time to make it possible for the economy to improve.

Improving the economy means creating more or better products and services that are in demand at a competitive cost. Governments in non-dictatorial countries cant really do that directly, they can only create the conditions for this to happen.

Moderate inflation hardly plays a part, except as a moderator (is that a pun?) of shocks. Deflation (and a strong gold standard in a developing economy IS deflation) is deadly, it makes the economy less flexible, less able to adjust.

If you never improve your ecomomy, all you will have left will be to bitch about inflation.

What is too much debt, too much inflation, too much intervention? I wish economics was a science.

Theoretically the economy can get to be so bad that the structure collapses, there are countries which have notoriously bad historical records, and yet every time they restart they have to borrow money to get things going again. Reserves in general are useless. Production, services and a functioning market, recursive production of valuable goods and services which freely and easily find customers is the only thing you can consider a reliable pillar of civilization. Currency is one of those goods and services.

If for any reason yor currency cant freely circulate (see China or the USSR errr... Russia) you can hardly be a superpower, at least not in the economic sense.

Adopting a gold standard so strong that it would destroy the international dollar standard has no advantage for the USofA or for any developed first world country. Even just having the Euro wreaks havoc in weaker European countries economies, but that is another can of worms.

A lot of what is wrong about the gold standard would apply if a country decided to adopt bitcoin as its sole currency btw.

I'd be afraid to ask if I could borrow his lawn mower.

I would love an EV, but I don't plan to buy a new car as long as my current one works. I used to drive a lot, but I don't drive as much these days, typically just around town and the occasional ~100 miles to a neighboring city that has things my little town doesn't have. An EV with 150 mile range and charging at home would suite me just fine for day to day use, and if I needed to go somewhere farther, I could rent, borrow or ride with a friend or family member if they're going too.

The two problems for me are, I don't have a garage, so I would have to install some ugly charging station in my yard next to the driveway. Then there is the cost, both the cost of the car and the cost of installing a charging station. I can't justify spending $30-35K on a new EV, when for less than half that I can buy a new gas car, and probably not even spend the difference in cost between the two in fuel over the life of the vehicle.