Then I guess I'm also bigoted and discriminate against pedophiles or the KKK for that matter. How dare I, right?

And no, history will not judge me for my eff'd up morals, as you put it. History will judge me as someone who actually had morals that weren't swayed by popular culture, rather than changing beliefs with every whim of society.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^Morganth:
No, that's not the definition of discrimination. And it's not the definition of bigotry either. You cannot simply cry "bigot" whenever someone else's beliefs aren't the same as yours.
dis·crim·i·na·tion   [dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn]
noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
The bakery is refusing to bake them a wedding cake because they are gay. They are making a distinction against a person based on their sexual orientation.
Now, care to try that again?

>> ^shinyblurry:

If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding?

Yes. And frankly, as long as all parties are consenting adults, I have no problem with polygamy. It's not my thing, but if that floats your boat, go nuts.

>> ^shinyblurry:

How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car?

That is exactly the kind of retarded question I would have expected. Kudos to you for keeping my expectations of you consistently low. If it was anyone else, I wouldn't even have to explain this, but since you clearly have the intellectual capacity of a slightly stupid chimpanzee....

You cannot marry a dog. It is illegal and always will be, because they cannot give an informed consent,
i.e. completely fucking irrelevant to a discussion pertaining to what two adults decide to do.
>> ^shinyblurry:

He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.

He's legally within his rights to do so. And once again, the rest of us get to call him an asshole for doing so.

And as for "corrupting the institute of marriage"? I think you'll find that heterosexual christians are fucking that up just fine by themselves.

>> ^shinyblurry:

If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding? How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car? He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.
So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi

So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.
Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.



You know what is the main flaw in the argument of Christians who claim that they have the sole right to define what the institution of marriage represents and who is permitted to access it?

Simply this:

Christians don't own, didn't invent, and have no right to control marriage. They don't hold the patent on it. Not the idea of marriage, not the word of marriage, nothing. The concept of marriage belongs to the human race and predates Christianity by millenia and continents. Therefore, they have no special rights or privilege to impose their definition of it upon the rest of the nation.

But don't take my word for it. You have google at your finger tips.

If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding? How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car? He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.

>> ^petpeeved:

>> ^shinyblurry:
Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.
So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi

So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.
Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.

>> ^Morganth:

No, that's not the definition of discrimination. And it's not the definition of bigotry either. You cannot simply cry "bigot" whenever someone else's beliefs aren't the same as yours.

dis·crim·i·na·tion   [dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn]
noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

The bakery is refusing to bake them a wedding cake because they are gay. They are making a distinction against a person based on their sexual orientation.

Now, care to try that again?

>> ^Hive13:

It is a private business and can chose not to sell to anyone for any reason they choose. They don't HAVE to sell a cake to them. That doesn't make it okay to be hateful and bigoted, but there is no lawsuit here.
I'd love a business to refuse service to a christian man/woman couple in the same way. Sadly, it would be the scandal of the decade.


I have to agree with Hive.

This is not the same as Chick-Fil-A where the CEO COO or whatever is donating money to oppose civil rights. This is just some small company who opposes gay marriage so they won't make a gay cake.

If business is going UP at this bakery it's pretty sad but I hope that gay couple moves obviously they are not wanted in that community

Oh, but I can when they use those beliefs to deny me what is owed, like a service, merely because I hold to a different belief.

They would not tolerate a customer's request because they were morally opposed to the customer's personal beliefs. That's the fucking definition of bigotry.

>> ^Morganth:

No, that's not the definition of discrimination. And it's not the definition of bigotry either. You cannot simply cry "bigot" whenever someone else's beliefs aren't the same as yours. >> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^Morganth:
Nexxus is spot on. This has nothing to do with hatred. This has nothing to do with bigotry. It's simply not wanting to sell your services and goods to something you're morally opposed to.
Being "morally opposed to" something isn't a "get out of jail free card". You must justify your moral opposition to something. In this case, your justification for being opposed to gay marriage is discrimination and bigotry. Explain to me how this is different to a racist refusing to supply a cake for an interracial wedding? You might be "morally opposed" to interracial marriage, but that doesn't make it ok. The rest of us get to stand up and call you out for your bigoted views.
>> ^Morganth:
It's significant here that it's a wedding cake that's requested as well. As a Christian, if that gay couple came in to my store (hypothetical - I don't actually have a store) and just asked for a loaf of bread, we'd do business just like anyone else. But if they requested a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage, like the owner, I would refuse. I would not want my business to directly support an institution of which I am morally opposed. There's no hatred behind it - how could there be? I don't even know those people. It's not bigotry either, because I'm still fine with doing business in other ways - I just don't want my business to directly support something I'm against.

I 100% support your right to refuse support to things you are against. If you don't want to make a cake for corrupt business or a KKK meeting, go for it.
But I then get to judge you for what you are against. I'm sick of this pussy-footing around, where people have to defend themselves and the left goes on about how being gay isn't a choice, as if it was some terrible affliction that gays are stuck with. I don't give a shit if being gay is a genetic thing or if someone wakes up one day and decides "you know what? I'm switching teams today". Honestly what business is it of mine?
So yeah, you don't get to be "morally opposed" to gay marriage as if that's ok. It is the very definition of discrimination, plain and simple. You can claim it all you want, but as time moves on, history will judge your morals to be as fucked up as those who opposed civil rights, women's suffrage and divorce.

No, that's not the definition of discrimination. And it's not the definition of bigotry either. You cannot simply cry "bigot" whenever someone else's beliefs aren't the same as yours. >> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^Morganth:
Nexxus is spot on. This has nothing to do with hatred. This has nothing to do with bigotry. It's simply not wanting to sell your services and goods to something you're morally opposed to.
Being "morally opposed to" something isn't a "get out of jail free card". You must justify your moral opposition to something. In this case, your justification for being opposed to gay marriage is discrimination and bigotry. Explain to me how this is different to a racist refusing to supply a cake for an interracial wedding? You might be "morally opposed" to interracial marriage, but that doesn't make it ok. The rest of us get to stand up and call you out for your bigoted views.
>> ^Morganth:
It's significant here that it's a wedding cake that's requested as well. As a Christian, if that gay couple came in to my store (hypothetical - I don't actually have a store) and just asked for a loaf of bread, we'd do business just like anyone else. But if they requested a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage, like the owner, I would refuse. I would not want my business to directly support an institution of which I am morally opposed. There's no hatred behind it - how could there be? I don't even know those people. It's not bigotry either, because I'm still fine with doing business in other ways - I just don't want my business to directly support something I'm against.

I 100% support your right to refuse support to things you are against. If you don't want to make a cake for corrupt business or a KKK meeting, go for it.
But I then get to judge you for what you are against. I'm sick of this pussy-footing around, where people have to defend themselves and the left goes on about how being gay isn't a choice, as if it was some terrible affliction that gays are stuck with. I don't give a shit if being gay is a genetic thing or if someone wakes up one day and decides "you know what? I'm switching teams today". Honestly what business is it of mine?
So yeah, you don't get to be "morally opposed" to gay marriage as if that's ok. It is the very definition of discrimination, plain and simple. You can claim it all you want, but as time moves on, history will judge your morals to be as fucked up as those who opposed civil rights, women's suffrage and divorce.

>> ^shinyblurry:

Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.
So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi


So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.

Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.

>> ^Morganth:

Nexxus is spot on. This has nothing to do with hatred. This has nothing to do with bigotry. It's simply not wanting to sell your services and goods to something you're morally opposed to.

Being "morally opposed to" something isn't a "get out of jail free card". You must justify your moral opposition to something. In this case, your justification for being opposed to gay marriage is discrimination and bigotry. Explain to me how this is different to a racist refusing to supply a cake for an interracial wedding? You might be "morally opposed" to interracial marriage, but that doesn't make it ok. The rest of us get to stand up and call you out for your bigoted views.

>> ^Morganth:
It's significant here that it's a wedding cake that's requested as well. As a Christian, if that gay couple came in to my store (hypothetical - I don't actually have a store) and just asked for a loaf of bread, we'd do business just like anyone else. But if they requested a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage, like the owner, I would refuse. I would not want my business to directly support an institution of which I am morally opposed. There's no hatred behind it - how could there be? I don't even know those people. It's not bigotry either, because I'm still fine with doing business in other ways - I just don't want my business to directly support something I'm against.


I 100% support your right to refuse support to things you are against. If you don't want to make a cake for corrupt business or a KKK meeting, go for it.

But I then get to judge you for what you are against. I'm sick of this pussy-footing around, where people have to defend themselves and the left goes on about how being gay isn't a choice, as if it was some terrible affliction that gays are stuck with. I don't give a shit if being gay is a genetic thing or if someone wakes up one day and decides "you know what? I'm switching teams today". Honestly what business is it of mine?

So yeah, you don't get to be "morally opposed" to gay marriage as if that's ok. It is the very definition of discrimination, plain and simple. You can claim it all you want, but as time moves on, history will judge your morals to be as fucked up as those who opposed civil rights, women's suffrage and divorce.

Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.

Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.

Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.

Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.

So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.

>> ^Yogi

>> ^shinyblurry:

First of all, it wasn't discrimination. He didn't refuse to serve them because they are gay. He refused to make them a gay wedding cake. Little bit of a difference there. The nastiness that comes out of people when they think they have an excuse to attack Christians is the real story. Immediately after the chick-fil-a controversy you had so much vile filth posted in comments and message boards, even celebrity tweets, viciously maligning Christians. That's just fine with people, but it's not okay that a man will only bake heterosexual wedding cakes. It's a hypocritical double-standard.


Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.

Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.

Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.

First of all, it wasn't discrimination. He didn't refuse to serve them because they are gay. He refused to make them a gay wedding cake. Little bit of a difference there. The nastiness that comes out of people when they think they have an excuse to attack Christians is the real story. Immediately after the chick-fil-a controversy you had so much vile filth posted in comments and message boards, even celebrity tweets, viciously maligning Christians. That's just fine with people, but it's not okay that a man will only bake heterosexual wedding cakes. It's a hypocritical double-standard.



>> ^Yogi:

>> ^shinyblurry:
In the name of tolerance, people are coming out of the woodwork to bash Christian businesses like Chick-fil-a on the basis of their beliefs about homosexuality being a sin. A lot of these are setups; the gay community gets wind of a Christian business who has strong convictions, and then they send someone in to get refused so they can go to the media and create a bunch of hype and drama and generate sympathy. In the end, the hatred and intolerance seems to be entirely one sided. Christians don't hate gays; Jesus died as much for them as He did for the rest of us. Christians who do hate gays are simply ignorant and wrong and they should be chastised. That doesn't mean you should indict Christianity as a whole, because true Christians recognize that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
>> ^UsesProzac:
Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert


Rosa Parks was a set up as well. So would me saying right now, "So you're against Rosa Park's fight for equality you fucking racist." Either it's right or it's wrong, discrimination is wrong doesn't matter what tool you use to shine a light on it, just that it's represented fairly. Chick fil A was a situation where the president said that shit himself, that's not a set up, that's putting your face out their and people bitch slapping the shit out of you.

>> ^shinyblurry:

In the name of tolerance, people are coming out of the woodwork to bash Christian businesses like Chick-fil-a on the basis of their beliefs about homosexuality being a sin. A lot of these are setups; the gay community gets wind of a Christian business who has strong convictions, and then they send someone in to get refused so they can go to the media and create a bunch of hype and drama and generate sympathy. In the end, the hatred and intolerance seems to be entirely one sided. Christians don't hate gays; Jesus died as much for them as He did for the rest of us. Christians who do hate gays are simply ignorant and wrong and they should be chastised. That doesn't mean you should indict Christianity as a whole, because true Christians recognize that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
>> ^UsesProzac:
Business has doubled since the incident? I really don't understand why religious people glorify in the hatred of others. I've seen it firsthand in extended family members and it chills me. How can Christians ignore the gospel of loving thy neighbor and judge not and all those other fancy things their prophet said in their own religious text?
@shinyblurry, how do you reconcile that hypocrisy within yourself? You're the only person I know to ask here, seeing as you called me a harlot and all that. When you judge another person and go directly against the words set down in your bible, do you immediately ask your god to forgive you or what?
Edit: I'll throw in one of my favorite quotes to further illustrate the rampant hypocrisy.
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.” - Stephen Colbert



Rosa Parks was a set up as well. So would me saying right now, "So you're against Rosa Park's fight for equality you fucking racist." Either it's right or it's wrong, discrimination is wrong doesn't matter what tool you use to shine a light on it, just that it's represented fairly. Chick fil A was a situation where the president said that shit himself, that's not a set up, that's putting your face out their and people bitch slapping the shit out of you.