Eratosthenes actually knew from local lore that the sun shone directly down a well at modern day Aswan, in Egypt, on the summer solstice. On the same day at noon he measured the sun's angle using a vertical stick at Alexandria.

Well explained here: https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

this right here is what drives me absolutely bonkers.

you proceed from a false premise:
that "wealth" translates to being less corruptible.

blindly ignoring what wealth actual not only IS,but what it represents to the elite class in America.

power.

so could we please STOP with how much trump is actually worth,as if it has any inherent meaning in terms of power?


i do not understand wasting time with an ideologue,or dissecting his obviously conflicting comments as somehow expressing a clear and definable philosophy.these people play in the realm of cult of personality,spectacle and magical thinking.

their adoration for a particular public figure is cultish,and has very little to do with reality but more how their idol represents an ideal that they feel very strongly about.

so are we really surprised that bob will give Alexandria ocasio cortez a nod for exposing how easy it is to corrupt the system,but then conveniently excuse his idol and give him a pass based on the flimsiest of reasons:wealth.

when it was Alexandria ocasio cortez's lightning round that exposed how it is actually EASIER for the executive branch and the president to sell their influence for money.

but to bob,and how he sees things,the very idea that trump would ever engage in a breach of morality,and break his promise to the American people...is preposterous,...because trump already has money,why would he sell his integrity?

because BOB has integrity.
because BOB would never break a promise.
this is basic projection of ones morality onto a figure they admire.
we can apply the exact same metric to those who voted for Obama.same thing.same results.

you will never get bob to admonish his hero,because that hero represents the IDEA of what bob is projecting,not the actual reality.

fundamentalists engage in the exact same magical thinking.

so how can i get mad for bob,and the other trumpsters of the world?
i pity them.
because delusional dreams always crash on the shores of the real eventually.

and that is going to be a sad day for bob.

Wrong

The Burnie loving nut Shooting the Congressional ball field last year.

https://wtop.com/alexandria/2017/06/14231771/

how sad that during the dark ages,when europe was in a fundamentalist stranglehold it was the nations of islam which had created the most egalitarian societies at that point in history.

humanity also owes islam a thanks for saving a portion of the library of alexandria,mathmatics specifically.

1500 years later fundamentalism is once again attempting to choke humanity into submission.a rigid and backward interpretation of biblical texts which in their time were meant to free humanity is now used to enslave humanity.

why a fundamentalist (choose your flavor) would dismiss such a rich history and which gave us so much art,science and culture.(lets remember the first schools and hence the first scientists were religious).this just boggles my mind.

to defend certain text just because YOU have given it supreme authority and to deviate even a micron,even if overwhelming evidence to the contrary is provided,is just a failure of imagination.sadly the fundamentalist sees any disagreement with biblical text as somehow refuting god,so they are forced to defend the indefensible.

i am an apostate.
and i approve this message.

Also, some of his numbers are way off. According to the US Census (see #29), 79% of the population was urban in 2000, not ~20% as he claims.

For a breakdown of metro areas by population, look at #21 at the US Census link, "Metropolitan Statistical Areas--Population by Age". There were 131 million votes cast for president in 2008. If you want to arbitrarily define urban as 1 million people or more, there are 126.4 million voting-age people living in metropolitan areas.

Sliced a different way, according to the US Census, a presidential candidate can get to 50% of that if they take the voting age populations of just the top 12 metropolitan areas:

New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA
Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD
Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA
Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI

I don't know where he gets his numbers--maybe by using strict city limits?--but they're not even close to reality. According to the facts, in a pure popularity vote, a presidential candidate can safely ignore the rural areas and still win an election.

The electoral college is imperfect, but whatever you want to replace it with should do a better job of representing a diversity of interests--geographic, demographic, and politic--than a direct popular vote.

Just a Joke.

From YouTube:
Guy fills a gas can in the back of his truck. Static electricity builds up and sparks causing the fire. Mr. Brilliant pulls the hose out of the gas can and sprays gas and fire all over his truck. Alexandria, La

From Wikipedia:

The 2011 Egyptian protests are a series of street demonstrations, protests, and civil disobedience acts that have been taking place in Egypt since 25 January 2011. The demonstrations and riots began in the weeks after the successful Tunisian uprising, and many protesters are carrying Tunisian flags as a symbol of their influence. Specific grievances have centered around legal and political as well as economic issues: police brutality, state of emergency laws, lack of free elections, corruption, restrictions on freedom of speech, high unemployment, low minimum wages, insufficient housing, food price inflation, and poor living conditions. Mohamed ElBaradei, seen as the most likely candidate for an interim presidency, called for the ousting of President Hosni Mubarak as a possible objective.

As of January 29, at least 95 protester deaths had been reported (27 in Suez, 23 in Alexandria, 45 in Cairo), along with 10 policemen. 750 policemen and 1,500 protesters have been injured. The capital city of Cairo has been described as "a war zone", and the port city of Suez has been the scene of frequent violent clashes. The Egyptian government has attempted to break up and contain protests using a variety of methods. Anti-riot police groups have been responding to areas with shields, rubber bullets, batons, water cannons, tear gas and, in some cases, live ammunition. For the most part, the protest response has been non-lethal, although there have been fatalities. The government turned off almost all Internet accessand imposed a curfew, claiming that minimizing disruption from the protests is necessary to maintain order and to prevent an uprising of fundamentalist Islamic groups.

International response to the protests has generally been supportive with most governments and organizations calling for non-violent responses on both sides and peaceful moves towards reform. The protests have captured worldwide attention due to the increasing integration of Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and other social media platforms that have allowed activists and onlookers to communicate, coordinate, and document the events as they occur. As the level of publicity has increased, the Egyptian government has made increasing efforts to limit internet access, especially to social media. On the eve of major planned protests on Friday, 28 January, a nationwide internet and mobile phone "blackout" began, though before dawn the following morning it was reported that the blackout for cell phones had ended.

Funny, I guess, but I won't upvote because it's mostly fiction. The Daily Show is excellent because their comedy is usually grounded in reality, but just to be clear, this isn't --

Alexander marched through all regions of Afghanistan (which of course wasn't a single political entity at the time) with clear success. He even founded Kandahar (one of many cities called Alexandria, at the time).

Gengis Khan utterly destroyed the empire that occupied most of Afghanistan and Persia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Khwarezmia

And heck, not to mention that the US and the Northern Alliance toppled the Taliban with relative ease.

Of course, one could argue how much any of these empires/regimes was actually "in control" of Afghanistan, but that's true of imperial control of most regions.

So really, it's unmerited to call Afghanistan "unconquerable". It might be OK to call it "Ungovernable", but that's true of many regions of the world.

I think I get the gist of what you're saying, and you're certainly way more schooled that me.

It is of course dangerous to generalise from anecdotes - I threw them in because clearly I now have a bias and they're part of the reason why.

Maybe there's something in the practice of modern Islam that's not working.

I tell you what's funny is that when I went to church for the funeral in June I remembered *everything*, all the amens and hosanna in the highests and exactly when to stand up or kneel. And this is after many years of not going to church.

In reply to this comment by enoch:
former catholic eh?
many people come to me from the ecclestiastical teachings of catholicism very confused.
cant blame them...the doctrine of the church is contradictory to the teachings of jesus,and the papacy has for centuries amended doctrine when it so suited them.
which is EXACTLY my point.
substitute catholic for muslim and my point my become clearer.
religious dogma and doctrine has always been the whipping tool of those who hold the reigns.preying on the weak,poor and ill-educated to submit to a doctrine that is contradictory to the teachings of <fill in holy messenger HERE>.
i could spend hours debunking the biblical (quran,torah,KJV) scriptures that have been misused to perpetuate a misnomer on:womens rights,sexuality,marriage,sin etc etc eeeeeetc.
most atheists i know are not in reality atheists,just agnostics who have peeked through the veil of the church and found it lacking.
many of them are angry,feeling betrayed by an institution that so often stated that they were right.
no...they werent.
the thing i find most funny is that every spiritual "leader"(if i may)has denounced the church of that time as being a form of evil fomenting more evil.
but i digress (i know..shocker),
my point is that islam has enriched human society tenfold.
by creating the most egalitarian society 500 a.d
womens rights 525 a.d
property rights 525 a.d
the continuation of sciences,so while europe got bogged down in the 600 yr dark ages and the church raped the countryside with its inquistitions,islam was not only preserving but helping to restore as much of the library of alexandria as it could.
fairness,justice,honesty virtues held in huge regard.
humility and reverence for all creation.
these are worthy things to admire.

maybe its the history teacher in me,i tend to look at information in giant blocks.the ebb and flow of time,forces of social upheavel and political unrest changing one national landscape to form into another.philisophical tectonic plates if you will.sometime i forget the here and now.
the teachings of mohamhed and jesus are poignant and wise.
i do not like the polarized nature of our countries,it only leads to danger.
i am sorry that the situation is where its at in your country.
by your response i can never know,but i can guess:
the newly immigrated islamic community is using its religion to strongarm the rest of the community to bend to the churches wishes.
i shall look more into this,i welcome any anecdotes you may wish to reveal.
while i still feel the billions of muslims are being misunderstood due to these few who butcher a beautiful text to garner their desires.
that is NOT from islam..nor christianity for that matter.
but they keep saying thats exactly what the text says dont they?
and they could not be more wrong.
those who are unfamiliar with islamic text base their assumptions on these selfish people.
sad sad sad....
what could have been a good and righteous thing is now an instrument of divisiveness.
bah...rambling again.
thank you for the reply my friend,i do hope this makes a modicum of sense.
namaste.

former catholic eh?
many people come to me from the ecclestiastical teachings of catholicism very confused.
cant blame them...the doctrine of the church is contradictory to the teachings of jesus,and the papacy has for centuries amended doctrine when it so suited them.
which is EXACTLY my point.
substitute catholic for muslim and my point my become clearer.
religious dogma and doctrine has always been the whipping tool of those who hold the reigns.preying on the weak,poor and ill-educated to submit to a doctrine that is contradictory to the teachings of <fill in holy messenger HERE>.
i could spend hours debunking the biblical (quran,torah,KJV) scriptures that have been misused to perpetuate a misnomer on:womens rights,sexuality,marriage,sin etc etc eeeeeetc.
most atheists i know are not in reality atheists,just agnostics who have peeked through the veil of the church and found it lacking.
many of them are angry,feeling betrayed by an institution that so often stated that they were right.
no...they werent.
the thing i find most funny is that every spiritual "leader"(if i may)has denounced the church of that time as being a form of evil fomenting more evil.
but i digress (i know..shocker),
my point is that islam has enriched human society tenfold.
by creating the most egalitarian society 500 a.d
womens rights 525 a.d
property rights 525 a.d
the continuation of sciences,so while europe got bogged down in the 600 yr dark ages and the church raped the countryside with its inquistitions,islam was not only preserving but helping to restore as much of the library of alexandria as it could.
fairness,justice,honesty virtues held in huge regard.
humility and reverence for all creation.
these are worthy things to admire.

maybe its the history teacher in me,i tend to look at information in giant blocks.the ebb and flow of time,forces of social upheavel and political unrest changing one national landscape to form into another.philisophical tectonic plates if you will.sometime i forget the here and now.
the teachings of mohamhed and jesus are poignant and wise.
i do not like the polarized nature of our countries,it only leads to danger.
i am sorry that the situation is where its at in your country.
by your response i can never know,but i can guess:
the newly immigrated islamic community is using its religion to strongarm the rest of the community to bend to the churches wishes.
i shall look more into this,i welcome any anecdotes you may wish to reveal.
while i still feel the billions of muslims are being misunderstood due to these few who butcher a beautiful text to garner their desires.
that is NOT from islam..nor christianity for that matter.
but they keep saying thats exactly what the text says dont they?
and they could not be more wrong.
those who are unfamiliar with islamic text base their assumptions on these selfish people.
sad sad sad....
what could have been a good and righteous thing is now an instrument of divisiveness.
bah...rambling again.
thank you for the reply my friend,i do hope this makes a modicum of sense.
namaste.

No problemo, Swampy. I enjoyed the exchange.

Although...the word agnostic comes from "gnōsis" which is Greek for knowledge. So if we're to ignore the contemporary parlance for agnosticism (as an interim position between atheist and believer) and use the correct definition, agnosticism relates to knowledge where atheism relates to belief in god.

In short, an agnostic believes that the existence of god cannot be known. It says nothing about the belief (itself) in god.

The two terms are mutually exclusive. So a person can be one of the following: a gnostic theist, an agnostic theist, a gnostic atheist, or an agnostic atheist.

Related to your comment about "belief system," one would be tempted to call the above codification as exactly that: a belief system. But "belief" is the wrong word, I think. It certainly shares a similarity to the scientific method: where things are categorized & codified all the time. So it's probably a system, all right, but it's more of a knowledge system, less of a belief system.

To a scientist, knowledge or fact is the seed of belief. More and more, lately, belief is the seed of knowledge and we think that's a very dangerous path to be on.

I'm reminded of the Royal Library of Alexandria, Egypt, which was founded in the 3rd century BC by Ptolemy II. It has been said that it contained as many as one million books (or scrolls) before it was burned to the ground by those in power (political, military, etc). Efforts to rebuild the library were ultimately for naught because by the 8th century AD, it was no longer a significant institution and had ceased to function in any important capacity.

So it took an entire 1100 years for mankind to go from an all-encompassing thirst for knowledge to complete apathy. That's a long, slow change in attitude. What value will we assign to knowledge one thousand years from now?

Anyway, forgive me for this tangent. See you on the sift!

regards,
-Shuac

In reply to this comment by swampgirl:
I was a bit defensive for the underdog here because I am a former Christian. I suppose I would call myself agnostic now. Thanks for the polite and sincere replies.

Chief Librarian of the Great Library of Alexandria is on my list of 'Best Jobs That Have Ever Existed But Will Never Exist Again". Alas, alack, welladay....

Measure the stick, and the shadow of the stick, and you get a triangle, in this case the sunlight hit the stick in Alexandria at a 7 degree angle.. so the triangle would be 90, 83 and 7 degrees.

so if the stick was 100cm tall, then the shadow would be 12.3 cm long, so thats 7 degrees angle between the imagined line from the top of the stick to the end of the shadow.

LEET Drawing:

Alexandria:
\\
\\\sunlight
\\\
\\\\

7 degrees
|\
| \
|_\
90 83

Syena:

||||
|||sunlight
||||
|||
0
|
|
|
|
no shadow..

In other words, assuming that the sunlight was parallel, the two sticks would join in the center of the earth at 7 degrees.(they were not parallel, as you would expect on a flat earth.)

As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer."
Pagan services became punishable by death in 356.
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues.
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities
The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

* Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.
* Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany.
* Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered.
* 15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown.
* 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.

I think scottishmartialarts does have a point. Politics and just sheer chance of luck in history plays a big part of outcomes of civilization.

USA could've bombed China with atomic blast during Korean war, but Truman thought Macarthur was bit nuts for thinking that. Now they're on the biggest economic rebound modern history has ever seen, armed with the latest western technology.

Same thing with Rome vs Egypt back in the days of Octavian vs Marcus Antonius. Rome produced less food than Egypt at that time, heavily relying on Sicily to feed the gigantic city of Rome. Rome and Alexandria were at the same level both technologically and population wise. But Octavian wins, and Latins dominate the Mediterranean sea.

Perhaps ultimately because they had a better and more effective military tradition (culture factor) than Alexandrians of Egypt or even the Carthaginians long ago, who also produced more food than Romans, enough so that they were able to make rich and buy mercenaries from other areas to fight their battles for them.

But what Diamond speaks of is about the beginning of civilization and why we have ended up with such drastically different lifestyles. I do think he has a point there.

And I especially agree with this three points:

1. A community requires easy means to produce high energy yielding food to sustain large population.

2. High population & density is always a must to achieve technological innovation and germ immunity.

3. Society with high germ immunity and technological advancement gets to dominate other cultures.

BUT

All 1st, 2nd and 3rd points can be overcome with: constant Trading and Politics between communities.