[Krupo finishes watching vid] Dude, you can put it in *art. This was really well done. Excellent 'choreography' with the music.

[edit: per YT song is "Aberdeen City - Pretty Pet"]

The average normal person probably can take it with little risk. You've no idea what condition the person you're dealing with is in or what drugs or medications they might be on, they may not be average. It's not that it shouldn't be used at all but that it shouldn't be used lightly or to send messages. A person might be fine under one form of stress but multiples together can kill them in some cases, that rather than a taze alone I'd think, combinations of stresses, is responsible for most real cases. Some are just excuses too I'd guess.

Potentially fatal was qualified just fine. Aberdeen decided they didn't need to be zapping troops just to train them, wasn't worth the risk, but I also noted that in a later report they found it fine for use in Iraq. That fits with what I said just fine. It's not a toy, it's a tool. Use it appropriately and I'm not complaining.

If they are being taught to double zap as procedure they shouldn't be. From the video he was down with palms wide open and saying ok on the first, rolling over as ordered and with his arms just getting behind him when hit with the second one. Not resisting and a guy that size could have. A third was ordered though I didn't hear it delivered when his arms were already twisted up behind his back because he didn't straighten which he probably couldn't have done given the angles and the restrictions of someone that musclebound. The comment wasn't intended to mean that they didn't use two cuffs in the end but that he couldn't bend as well as some might there and they were getting trigger happy. Use it when needed and I've no problem with it but not out of habit, practice, or to send messages.

No, potentially lethal if you're anyone of any age with a heart condition diagnosed or not, young people have them too. Just not as often. If they are on drugs that increase blood pressure and heart rate, or others. Conclusions such as "Army also concluded last year that Tasers could cause ventricular fibrillation, the irregular heart rhythm characteristic of a heart attack" don't come out of Aberdeen proving ground because they think their troops are 75 year olds with pacemakers. They were worried about an avoidable accident with a troop.

I hadn't planned to post here again for a while and I won't after I deal with this, but I grew up in the DC area in the 70's. Spent four and a half years locked up before I was 15 and had a few years on the streets after that then years later worked with the cops a bit on system reform, am still in occasional contact with them and was within recent weeks. I'm fairly familiar with the subjects involved and from both sides of the issues, including dealing with big guys

Had a 6 foot 6 and a half monster pissed at me once. Someone that big simply can't bend too far back as easily as a smaller person, musclebound, that's why with the big guys you sometimes see two handcuffs hooked together to make the span behind them. The cops should have known that as well as I do and I'd expect they did. You nailed their only reason for the second hit with the comment "they probably did it to drive the point home: Do what you're fucking told".

That's a misuse of a potentially lethal technology, not just to old and small people but to anyone who might suffer a heart problem. And people wonder why it's a growing concern that too many cops have an attitude? Their authority was to enforce the law, not to send messages. If we use more force than needed we can be charged even when it's in self defense, they shouldn't be above the law to abuse just to send messages either.

Without knowing what triggered the first taze, view was blocked, I can't say if it was justified or not. Might have been. I don't think the follow up ones were needed, once he was down he was saying ok and trying to cooperate. They didn't give him time to stop twitching from the first one and get control of his limbs before hitting him again.

To defend against or control a violent suspect I've got no problem with a taze, but you don't use a potentially lethal technology to send messages or just because you're pissed and tasers have been connected with too many deaths for casual use. To a healthy person they might be lower risk but you don't know the medical conditions or background of your victim in street use.

There's plenty of literature from manufacturers claiming it's safe and they might even be right for some models and when used properly and functioning properly, but we've also got indications such as these to consider.

In a separate finding, the Army also concluded last year that Tasers could cause ventricular fibrillation, the irregular heart rhythm characteristic of a heart attack. A memorandum from the Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland, where the Army develops, tests and evaluates weapons, said, "Seizures and ventricular fibrillation can be induced by the electric current."
At issue was whether soldiers should be shocked with the stun guns during training exercises, as Taser recommends.

http://charlydmiller.com/LIB07/2006Feb13TaserMorePowerfulThanClaimed.pdf

It has since been found at Aberdeen to be ok for use in Iraq and in *combat conditions*. Article also mentions a study published in the Journal of the National Academy of Forensic Engineers which found wide variation from the stated power of the tasers. Any one of the questions on its own might be discounted but there are too many questions and too many sources for them to take the concern lightly. It's a tool to stop a dangerous suspect, if a potentially lethal technology is used to simply force compliance I'd see that as assault and the officer should be the one going to jail.

http://littlecalamity.tripod.com/Text/Riptide.html

RIPTIDE
(1984-1986)

The RIPTIDE is a white boat with orange trim, formerly the "Mary Aberdeen." She was cursed; six people and one poodle died on her. Nick Ryder bought her from Tiny Tommy's in 1981. She is docked at Slip 7, Pier 56, in King Harbor, next to Mama Joe's tourist ship CONTESSA. (Mama Joe, played by Anne Francis, has an entirely female crew, all young, all in bikinis; the boys ogle them but Mama Joe does her best to keep the girls away from them.) Living on the RIPTIDE are three private investigators: Nick Ryder, Cody Allen, and Dr. Murray Bozinsky. For the traditional $200/day plus expenses, they will solve your case/protect you. They provide security for the pier in exchange for their docking there. They drive a red convertible with orange flames painted on sides, license plate IEAZ219, and the jimmy. The EBBTIDE is a small powerboat, owned by Cody.

Riptide (1984-86) - TV action series created by Stephen J. Cannell and Frank Lupo, this is about two Vietnam buddies who become private investigators. The show co-starred Joe Penny as Nick, the pilot of "Screaming Mimi," and old Sikorsky S-58T helicopter. Painted pink with a garish mouth on front, it was shabby, unreliable US Army surplus.