I am guessing that I was one of the first pastors, if not the first, in my community not in opposition to gay marriage. I don't say this with any sense of accomplishment of having wrestled through some sort of epic moral struggle, because I never have opposed gay marriage as sanctioned by the State. I don't believe there is any Constitutional basis for opposing it. . I also see no issue with a business serving the gay community. By default, our family business has happily done so for decades. One of my favorite mottoes is, 'live and let live.' I am confident that people around me, including those gays that call me 'friend' know this about me already. Although I am a part of the Christian community where I live, not one of my gay friends has exited our relationship due to that, nor have I ever been considered a homophobe. My views on marriage are exactly that: conclusions I have come to with the resources at my command. And whether or not I disagree with you, I believe that I have no right whatsoever to impose my view of marriage on anyone. In the same breath, after considering my own failings, I have no right to judge how someone else chooses to live their life. I have concluded that whatever path they choose was never between me and them, but between them and God anyway.

The solutions to this common struggle today (the question of religious conscience living side by side with gender liberty) cannot be solved by enacting more law. Americans are, as always, legislating the soupe du jour. The trouble is, in a society where that kind of 'might makes right,' the pendulum can and does swing the other way to deleterious effect. I think that our common issue can be solved by a simple but powerful idea: a stronger community. Like it or not, we are in this together and only together can overcome the vitriol on either side.

I remember an incident many years ago when my Muslim ex-Uncle showed up at my grandparent's house for dinner. On the menu: pork. In one of the most despicable acts of imposition that I can remember happening in our family, my Grandfather decided that serving pork that day would give him some kind of twisted self satisfaction; a victory, of sorts. He decided that he would attempt to get our Uncle to violate his religious conscience and, if that not be possible, at the very least, offend my Uncle as much as possible within his power. I don't think anyone would argue that it wasn't within my Grandfather's rights to serve whatever meal he wanted in his own home. But was it morally right? If he had loved my Uncle, he would have put aside his own rights and made a way to foster community. That is what living together is about.

In the same vein, I don't believe any one of my gay friends would ever ask me to perform their wedding. Even given that right legally, they wouldn't ask because they love me and they would not attempt to get me to violate both my conscience and my own understanding of marriage. While we agree to disagree, we remain friends out of love. Love is what binds. The law divides. The law is a foreigner to community, the enemy of community, when it says, 'we can live together only when you do as I want you to do in order to satisfy me or my sense of offense for another." While laws are necessary in society, they are superfluous when love will do. But we don't want to work that hard. So we make rules. We call people names. We stereotype. We divide, condescend, and foment bitterness toward our neighbors, gay and straight alike.

I had a friend confess to me once, "My whole family is racist. I was racist. But I'm not racist any more." That didn't happen because of legislation. It happened because he got to know some black people and found out that he had some love in his heart for them. Wouldn't you have liked to have been there when he shook a black man's hand for the first time in his life? Yeah, me too.

Just once, I'd like to see someone brew some iced tea, walk across the street to that gay neighbor or that Christian neighbor and sit down and find some commonality. I read above (can't remember who wrote it) that the Bible's morality is trumped by today's morality. I say that the epitome of morality exists in the words of Jesus when he says, "Love your enemies." That, to me, is the fulfillment of what it means to be human.

In related thoughts, I think the Church needs to tell the State, 'Goodbye. We are not going to act as your agent any longer in arena of legal marriage. We will not sign your documents. You have the legal authority over marriage in our society but the Church has the spiritual authority as the Church sees fit." That leaves room for some congregations to perform gay weddings and others to not as they see fit. It leaves room for live and let live. It leaves room for love.

Yes, to insult you maybe but not intended.

You seem to not be able to make your mind up about what the hell you actually belive in a "Solid" state of mind... you are fluid and that makes no sense.

You go with everyone and agsinst everyone depending on what the situation depicts and with that tout whatever spiritual thing that may go with it.

and enter.

this should be common knowledge and totally non-controversial.
but in my country people are so saturated by materialism and actually judge their own value by their ability to purchase and how much money they make.

and they wonder why they need medications to:ease their anxiety,"balance" their brain chemicals,help them sleep,help them stay awake and alert.

i deal with this on a weekly basis and it has been getting worse.
normal people spending so much energy to project this so-called "perfect' life,when the reality is they are broken and disillusioned.

it is not an easy thing to tell someone that the life they had been leading was a lie and not the reality they may have actually wanted for themselves.

that they had become slaves to a system that sought only to extract value from them,while reciprocating nothing in return.

freeing people from the invisible chains that bind them is a process that takes time.i am not always successful but it can be done and it is a worthy challenge.

while i appreciated the words in this talk i have to admit it has made me a tad sad....this should be common knowledge.

my country has terminal spiritual cancer....
im going to go watch some cartoons now,or have a good cry...

I wasn't raised in a religious home so I never had that aspect in my life of seeking comfort from the idea of God. I believed that we were products of random chance, although the real love and connection I felt to people and this reality did not feel that way. Essentially, though, I had resigned myself to the fact of my future death, and that eventually no one would ever remember or care that I even existed.

I was an agnostic towards the idea of God at that point. Atheism to me was the other extreme from theism, and I believed that the rational standpoint was agnosticism. If you did not have equal skepticism towards either side, I felt you were being intellectually dishonest. You could sum it up in a simple statement, that everything, including the fact that anything exists at all, is equally unlikely. To try to get that fact to point towards or away from a God in my opinion just showed bias.

I changed my mind when I began to have supernatural experiences. This didn't make me a theist, but it did open my eyes to the idea that there was a spiritual reality. It was in pursuing that spirituality that I received revelation that an all powerful, benevolent God does exist. After this, I became a Christian and was born again, and transformed into a new person.

So, what I would say is, there is no evidence of God beyond personal revelation by God. This is by design because God requires us to seek Him by faith. He is seeking those who will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. If you want to know whether there is a God or not, you must seek Him with all of your heart. Seek Him while it is still called today, because today is the day of salvation.

Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

@artician
because you are a fully actualized human being.
the majority of the western cultures have been berated under a cascade of distractions and so-called "entertainment" to further their devolution into little consumption machines...SQUIRREL!

when you attempt to understand someone from their perspective,through empathy and compassion,you begin to love them.this is a natural process which does not fit into the "us and them" paradigm.

the tools for violence and conflict are made flaccid and ineffectual.
religion.
nationalism.
become useless tools to manipulate.


understanding leads to love which leads to cooperation which only serves to undermine the interests of the powerful...so that can never be allowed.

it is the natural state of being that humans cooperate and work together but we,in the "developed" world,are taught that greed is good and selfishness is an admirable trait to pursue.

it is a spiritual cancer.

how ironic that those who live in the "under-developed" world are much more prone to share,cooperate and have a far more dynamic understanding of community.

the more i read your comments the more convinced i am that you are one righteous dude.
you are not alone.
the rising tide of resistance grows each and every day.
stay awesome my man.

Actually, to a certain degree, the spirituality has a lot to do with the scientific efficacy of the treatment. If you're familiar with powerful psychedelics, then this should come as no surprise.

I don't disagree that this substance may be able to work as is sold in this video, but the sentiments in the video itself are useless. You are quoting sources that may back up the claims but this video is all about the 'spirituality' of it all which has nothing to do with the scientific efficacy of the treatment. Believe me that I understand psychedelics, but this video is definitely woo. Use the the science, not an advertisement from a for-profit clinic.

Some people are never satisfied. Personally, I'm so tired of the extremists views on both sides (and believe me, Pat Robertson is often the source of pretty nasty extreme views) that this was actually refreshing. Some people are just so cynical, they can't appreciate anything less than Pat Robertson and Jesus himself coming forward as atheists.

Here's my view on it for those who may care:

Religion is pretty worthless. Sure it's been the cause of lots of horrible (and good) things through history, but it's also an attempt to combine what some deem as fact with something that's so beyond fact that we can't even comprehend it. It's man made. Full of errors and contradictions, blah, blah, blah. We all know that. Basically it all just falls apart whenever you try to throw science in there. It's like judging an apple by the standards of screwdriver.

So let's look at just the spiritual side of things. This is where I hang out. I see it as something beyond science (though uses science as it's tool) and factual understanding. It goes beyond nitpicking this fact and that falsehood. It's just a thing in the air that you can either be in touch with or not. If you are (and I am) then it fills a gap. Gives you hope. Comfort. Peace. Lots of things that are indescribable. But you feel better when you have it and you can't choose to believe in it or not. You just do. If you don't buy into it, then there is no gap to begin with. Doesn't make you smarter or better. You just have different needs.

Now maybe that means that in some dark recess of your psyche that if you're in touch with this spiritual side of things, then you die believing you'll be in an amazing place for eternity. And so you are. Or you don't believe, and so you aren't. Neither is better or worse compared to the other because they have no business being compared to the other. They don't coexist. They just both exist.

I think whatever it is that you believe in sets a standard for your life. Following those things, being true to those things, is what it's all about. This completes you. You can't force them on others or yourself for that matter. You can't punish others for not playing by your rules. You just have to play by your own (as long as you don't harm others).

And I'm tired of spiritualism HAVING to mean pure magic. Science is magic. Science is the most amazing magic. Does things you'd never believe. It's not an insult. It's just makes the whole damn system that much more incredible. If you choose to call that magic, go right ahead. It's just a word. Before long we'll realize that science can do things magic only dreamed of and that's pretty damn magical.

By the way, I'm not typing this trying to change anyone's mind or act like it's some kind of original thought. I'm just typing some thoughts. I like this kind of shit. Debates are great and healthy. I'm just sick of people hating on or insulting folks for believing in their heart something that's different.

No sir. Sensible sane and rational people(sarcasm intended) would treat sponsorship of Olympic games similarly if sayyy, the Olympic committee used child labor or trashed the environment building the arena and got corporate sponsors behind them....Wouldn't we then have to listen to the same type of gimps, the same who trash their own powers of reason, come out of the wood-works to protest that horrifying scenario!?? Watch them boycott coco-cola and mc donalds then?



WHAT CREATES THE LOWER-CLASS PEOPLE anyway, duh???

All governments work the same dude, a few people force the masses to perform according to their rules or be fined or imprisoned.

Draaakonian bullshit.

Personally, I boycott coke and mc donalds because their food is non-nutritive shit that causes diabetic epidemics in adults and children-Less is more.

Besides, corporate sponsorship of anything is a waste of resources when the same could be used for advancement both physically and spiritually of the entire species.

It's 2014 sir, and pretty much ALL governments and law enforcement works on the same arcane model, be they called democracies or dictatorships....po-tay-to, fucking pa-tah-to

I can spot an atheist a mile away, hehe.
While all those people you admire are atheists, there are 10 fold more people who believe in God but you disregard them. And I'm talking from all religions.
But that's okay. God made atheists and I'm sure God loves atheists. I feel bad for them because of the richness of life they are missing out on. They seem to be very unhappy people and rabidly anti-social. That's a major agenda to fight against everything spiritual.

@VoodooV
totally agree that there needs to be a strong message and people need to get organized.

as for my obama comment.i read an article when it went down that had the memo from the sec. of state.
i dont have it on hand so believe what you wish,its fairly irrelevant now but if you recall..all occupy movements were shut down within 48hrs.
that takes co-ordination.

as for the state being violent.
it is.
thats what it does.
just look up the labor movement.look up the west virginia mining strikes.just for ONE example to see the violence the state will perpetrate in the name of their masters.even back then corporations wielded immense power and influence.
anything good,decent and moral that this country has gained was NEVER a gift from the government but rather through opposition and bloodshed.

i do not accept the "lesser of two evils' argument.we can do better..period.

i do not accept that because the government consists of people that it automatically translates to benevolence.

the soldier who supervised the gas chamber in auschwitz may have been a great husband and father but he still presided over the execution of thousands.

people give authority and power to those who do not deserve it and sometimes that translates to a spiritual illness.

yes,you are correct.we have a voluntary military but have you ever questioned why?
why are these young people joining?
while there a myriad of reasons the main one?
they are poor and un-educated.thats the biggest reason.
and right now our military is experiencing the largest suicide rate ever..3 times the normal rate.

wonder why? might have something to do with a compromised moral compass?

maybe the american public SHOULD be made aware of what is being wrought in our name.
maybe that revolution would start a lot sooner.

i do not know whats going to happen.
but i am glad of your optimism.
i hope you are right my friend.
i hope you are right.

There's a simpler way of looking at mental illness or the lack of true freedom, in all her hydratic forms-Religions' a way to get a shitload of peeps to render their souls and Krugerrandz unto Caesar-like entities like preachers, priests, and governments.

What one makes for and of themselves with which to add to the grid, is all that matters in this lifetime-After this world comes pure energy and the bread you've cast comes around again-Make any sense there, god little gee?? True spirituality is coming to grips with time, space, and matter and the influence your perceptive apparatus has on the whole.

(a sate of permanent willful ignorance) it's 'state' and maybe, check a fucking mirror??

...and might we also thank the outspoken contingent of God-boppers, the self-described adepts of all things spiritual and non, and the followers of faith in what they know instinctively they haven't a clue about in their ownselves, to chime-in with the same virulent hatred for their own failings as evidenced in others of their species, whom they accuse and deride as too fucking dumb to share the same air with.

Some atheists are assholes and there is NO excuse amenable to all men, but there IS someone who was never called an asshole....


This banter both boring, and tired, bees well-fucking played-the-fuck-out.

I agree with ya.

There are a lot of jumping to conclusions and pseudo-scientific & "spiritual" & "mystical" hyper-babble in there.

It's really not about being "right" about anything; I think when people go on their spiels about it - there is a lot of personal fervor and frustration that this is obviously something extremely important to study because it "seems" like the "impossible". That it is so impossible to describe that it seems like anything or everything. Even when I think about times I have been under it and try to imagine what it was like I feel like I am going to bust reality wide open.

I do believe that it is bizarre that this chemical exists and seems to interact with us in an extremely intense and vivid way. It will be interesting to find out what scientists find out about this thing in the next 50 years and hopefully they can figure out more than "It is attaching to 5-HT_ & 5-HT_ receptors".

In 2013 scientists found that a rat's pineal gland contains this molecule so the future is going to be pretty interesting on this topic.

One's spiritual path is simply that-One's. Seekers and non-seekers-All paths lead to all paths, it's one's imprints and socialization that fucks everyone up their own asses-Western-oriented Buddhists can appear as more whack than any Mormon-When someone reads the words, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" for instance, the words are still with god and of god...Takes' a human to fuck up anything righteous when they think to hard-

One persons love may look like shit to another-Jesus hung out with thieves, whores, idolators, etc-Try to get a born-again asshole to do THAT!