smr said:

Jeez man. All that work! Just grant him his lies, then ask him if he's willing to give up democracy for that. You'll note he didn't do a thing to refute the fascism claim. Paraphrasing Franklin and with an eye to Russia: Those that would give up Democracy for a little prosperity deserve neither and will lose both. Thank god our institutions and self image are stronger than that egoist.

newtboy said:

Oh fuck, Bobby...20 lies to debunk? You suck.

1) and how many lost?...tens of millions
2) citation needed, and even if true, there are many more unemployed too, there are more of us. What you neglect is that there are more trying to work because it’s impossible to live on one average income and even children have to work to pay the family bills
3) citation needed, and lost how many millions? The net has been a loss of manufacturing, most of his gains never materialized
4) for one quarter after declining at the fastest rate in history for two. If I drop you off a 100’ cliff yesterday, then lift you up by 6’ today, I still made your position much worse even though it’s incredibly better than yesterday when you were falling...I don't get kudos for picking you up after stomping you into the dirt.
5) economic growth the quarter before reduced by what was it, >30%? That’s still a loss, dummy. See #4
6) new unemployment claims hit 50year highs for 3 quarters before, and new rules take many unemployed off the list so it looks better for Donny. The unemployment rate is still historically high
7)average household income has decreased. Rich became much richer, poor became poorer. Average Americans saw a loss in income
8 ) already discussed unemployment, you’re misstating or obfuscating the whole picture
9) anyone suspected of being undocumented is removed from the list....not an honest number by far
10) more fake numbers
11) more fake numbers
12) more fake numbers
13) more fake numbers
14) more fake numbers

Here’s the real data, notice only three states weren’t in the worst unemployment position ever last year.... https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/lauhsthl.htm
Also note not a single one is at it’s historic low unemployment, and most saw record high unemployment rates for most of 2020.
I give him credit, at the beginning of 2020, before he screwed it all up with his failures over the Trump pandemic, about 1/3 of states were near record unemployment by the newer standards. I have to wonder how much of those gains were due to changing g the criteria for counting the unemployed.
When you drop your victim in a 100’ hole you don’t get kudos for throwing them a 6’ ladder
15) you mean thrown out of the programs, there’s more need than anytime since the Great Depression. It's incredibly dishonest to make qualifying for assistance far more difficult, then use the lower numbers of people who qualify as proof you improved conditions. Utter bullshit.
16) they’ve pledged that before. Call me when they graduate, until then it’s another empty promise
17) citation? Probably a Trump speech talking point
18) it was Christmas...they ALWAYS surge in Dec, usually by a ton more than this year. Let’s see the yearly number for 2020. I don’t believe for a second it was better than 2019...citation? Oops, looked it up, declined, didn’t go up. I think you’re looking at predictions for December, they were WAY below predictions.

US Retail Sales Unexpectedly Drop in December
US retail trade fell 0.7 percent from a month earlier in December 2020, following a revised 1.4 percent decline in November and compared with market expectations of a flat reading. That was also the third consecutive month of decline in consumption, amid record COVID-19 infections, high unemployment levels and lack of government's support. Receipts declined at electronics & appliance stores (-4.9 percent vs -8.3 percent in November), restaurants and bars (-4.5 percent vs -3.6 percent), food & beverage stores (-1.4 percent vs 1.5 percent), general merchandise stores (-1.2 percent vs -1.3 percent), sporting goods, hobby, musical instrument & books stores (-0.8 percent vs -1.7 percent), and furniture stores (-0.6 percent vs -2.1 percent). In addition, online trade slumped 5.8 percent, accelerating from a 1.6 percent decrease in the previous month.

19) not for people making less than millions a year, our tax cuts were minimal, temporary, and unnoticeable. What’s the debt now? He cut revenue and increased spending....thanks to failing to deal with COVID, it’s likely he doubled the debt. What was the low estimate, >$6trillion in unplanned off the budget socialist handouts to fix his lack of a public pandemic plan. This year the debt is going to outpace gdp....the deficit was up by 35% BEFORE the Trump recession.
$300 billion didn't leave...that number was the total high estimate of businesses that said they were moving off shore because they didn't want to pay taxes or said they would move back...if you believe him...and it was only for one quarter, a one time gain at a cost of >$1.2 trillion per year In lost tax revenue. Great plan. It was a one time thing, and much of that business left anyway within the year. GM plant? Foxconn? Harley Davidson? How much of that claimed $300 Billion was based on promises that never materialized?

20) not most small businesses, only those making what was it, >$500000 a year? That’s not most “small businesses “....and that tax rate is temporary, phased out completely after 10 years, corporate tax rates and rates for billionaires is permanent.

You must ignore or fake all economic data from 2020 to make these claims, and even then they would be dishonest exaggeration based on baseless claims from a constant liar.

Not one point you made is honest...that’s why you can’t provide references or citations, you would be embarrassed to admit it all came straight from Don the con’s lying mouth and not organizations that professionally study these claims.

newtboy said:

So smart he thinks directing white supremacist terrorists to "stand down and stand by" as their leader is the same as disavowing them and telling them to be non violent.

BSR said:

Sounds like the military has a new enemy.

BSR said:

Brave President Bone Spur wins by not getting killed in war.

"We elected the worst of us."

I disagree. His presidency was gifted to him. He is not who the majority voted for. Simple.

bobknight33 said:

Nothing racist about this statement.


Stating that there is a need to lock up bad people. Only fools would disagree.

bobknight33 said:

WOW
I realize you are a leftist liberal nut and that you not only drank the Kool Aid but you are guzzling it down.

You are the TOOL of the Left.

Are you pro ANTIFA?
Pro Socialist?
Pro Communism?
Anti American?
Anti Cop?

You at least 3 out of 5 but most likely 5/5.

@newtboy,

EDIT: drafted this and sent while you were writing previous reply, so maybe some of this is addressed?

Alright, I've gone one step further and read through the shutdownld50 tumblr 'evidence' seeing as they of all places probably gather the most condemning evidence they could.

The evidence amounts to putting on 1 event/exhibit that included far right folks, and included "Brett Stevens", whom I'm not familiar with but the quote from him on Breivik certainly sounds bad. In addition to putting on this exhibit, the even worse accusation is that they didn't really advertise it much publicly. Now, call me skeptical, but I have to believe that if they HAD advertised it heavily that ALSO would have compounded their guilt.

To me it still looks like guilt be association. The gallery had the audacity to host speakers that people disliked, so ergo-nazi!

Please though, if there is more or better evidence then please do let me know, or point me to what I'm missing. Is the Stevens guy so vehemently pro-nazi and and pro-violence that the association really should be enough? I'm inclined to believe no else they'd have better and more extensive quotes to use against him.

Again, I'm coming from a place of not knowing any of these people's backgrounds or history, but if we are supposed to believe them to be villians of such a high degree, I want a stronger case than those people say so and if you spent a few weeks of research on it you'd agree, trust us.

your contention that ONLY personal profit drives invention or innovation.

I'm afraid I've never argued that, I can lead by agreeing whole heartedly that such a contention is false.

I merely pointed out that in a video about how 'capitalism didn't create the iphone', the authors own examples of innovations that lead to the iphone are all 100% from within an economy based on capitalism. My very first post stated clearly that it's not a purely capitalist system, but that it is noteworthy that not a one of the examples chosen by the author making his point came from a socialist country.

Can you offer a comparative American/Russian timeline of computer innovations
Well, I could actually. If you want to deny the fact that Russia basically halted their computer R&D multiple times in the 70s, 80s and 90s in place of just stealing American advances because they were so far behind I can cite examples for you...

And for some unknown to you reason China is beating the ever loving pants off America lately.
1. Factually, no they are not. The fastest network gear, CPU and GPU tech are all base on American research and innovation. America is still hands down leading the field in all categories but manufacturing cost, but that isn't for reasons of technological advancement but instead a 'different approach' to environmental and labour regulations.
2. Within the 5G space you alluded to earlier, there is an additional answer. Their 5G isn't 'better' but rather 'cheaper' for reasons stated in 1. The existence of their 'own' 5G tech though isnt' because Huawei's own R&D was caught up so fast through their own innovation. Instead if you look into the history of network companies, Canadian giant Nortel was giving Cisco a solid run for it's money for a time, until they utterly collapsed because of massive corporate espionage stealing almost all of their tech and under cutting them on price. China's just using the same playbook as Russia to catch up.

Russia beat America into space

Well, if you want to go down that road the conclusion is that fascism is the key to technological advancement, as America and Russia were largely just pitting the scientists they each captured from the Nazis against one another.

Once again though, my point has never been that only capitalism can result in innovation. Instead, I made the vastly more modest proposal that personal profit from inventions is beneficial to innovation. I further observed that the video author's own examples support that observation, and in that contradict his own conclusion.