I am an independent, politically. I can understand when people who don't believe in Christ look at these statements from evangelical leaders; it's an outrage and it breaks my heart. Winning the culture war isn't going to happen by legislating morality; it is going to happen through showing the authentic love of Christ and doing good works that glorify God in a lost and dying world.

>> ^joedirt:
>> ^messenger:
Anyone actively preaching about their faith online is the same as yelling about it on a bus or street corner. So either stick to appropriate forums or not get all offended when rational, reasonable people point out that you should keep your 1st century ideas off the 21st century invention. Most religions would ban the internet unless it had net nanny to prevent bad ideas from reaching your eyes. Look at
scientology as an example.


You're calling Scientology a religion? Seriously.

May I invite you to visit http://www.vatican.va/ ?

Yeah, argument shot down in flames, sorry.


People having a faith and practicing a religion isn't threatening, organized religion and millions in the coffers of evangelical leaders is a problem. Political action groups receiving millions in donations to push lobbying and legislation is a problem.

I do see the disconnect in this discussion. Americans vs. Canadians/Others.

In Canada, the dominant religious group is that of the Roman Catholic church. And we're pretty low key on the whole. To use an American example, you don't see Joe Biden going around installing nativity scenes or whatever it is that bothers you.


So, yeah, religions deserve to be ridiculed and have the sunshine of logic and truth shone on them on the internet. I can't name too many videos finding fault with the teachings of Jesus... Just the nutkooks like Kirk Cameron and idiots trying to show the existance of God because of the shape of a banana. That is what super pro-religion statements look like on the internet. You are judged against the Kirk Camerons and the 6000 yr earthers.


Yup, see my last paragraph.

It's not that Catholics and other 'chill Christians' are perfect - we admit that we're not, and that's the reason we HAVE the religion in the first place! - but the billion or so people who don't cause trouble or in fact, mitigate the trouble others experience, would appreciate not being lumped in with the crazy-ass evangelicals that're causing you so much of a headache.

>> ^messenger: Surely, in the big picture, the only measure for progress has to be how we act towards our fellow people, other living creatures, and the planet.

Look at the history of how religions treat members, other religions, anyone. Stone women to death. (Oh they don't do that anymore?) Ok, how about women in the clergy? (Oh they allow that now) Ok, how about discrimination against gays?

Religion has almost never been a good example of how to act against fellow man. The biggest problem atheist probably have is that so-called christians don't follow most of Jesus's teachings. They don't practice live and let live. They go around actively trying to convert and save and judge others (see abortion clinics or teaching evolution in schools for reference).

Anyone actively preaching about their faith online is the same as yelling about it on a bus or street corner. So either stick to appropriate forums or not get all offended when rational, reasonable people point out that you should keep your 1st century ideas off the 21st century invention. Most religions would ban the internet unless it had net nanny to prevent bad ideas from reaching your eyes. Look at scientology as an example.

People having a faith and practicing a religion isn't threatening, organized religion and millions in the coffers of evangelical leaders is a problem. Political action groups receiving millions in donations to push lobbying and legislation is a problem.

So, yeah, religions deserve to be ridiculed and have the sunshine of logic and truth shone on them on the internet. I can't name too many videos finding fault with the teachings of Jesus... Just the nutkooks like Kirk Cameron and idiots trying to show the existance of God because of the shape of a banana. That is what super pro-religion statements look like on the internet. You are judged against the Kirk Camerons and the 6000 yr earthers.

From Crooks And Liars:
According to Kuo, Karl Rove's office referred to evangelical leaders as 'the nuts.'

Tonight on Countdown–David Kuo, who was the number two guy at the Office of Faith Based initiatives in the White House writes a scathing account of how the administration used Christians to grab and maintain power. This story validates Tucker Carlson's admission that: "The deep truth is that the elites in the Republican Party have pure contempt for the evangelicals who put their party in power."