Portal 2: Cave Johnson says when life gives you lemons... has been added as a related post - related requested by newtboy.

Your video, Roger Stone Indicted as Trump Caves on Shutdown, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

I don't get how Trump and the GOP say the Democrats need to be willing to negotiate. They are offering $1.6 Billion in additional funding. But Trump is acting like Veruca Salt, and stomping his feet, saying he wants $5.7 Billion, and he wants it now. That's not how negotiations work. You want $5.7, they offer $1.6, you come down to say $4.6, they come back at $2.3, you come back with $4 and permanent residence status for Dreamers, they come back with $3 and permanent resident status, then you meet at $3.5 and permanent resident status. You don't just keep acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum and demanding the $5.7, and if you don't get it, the other side is the one's being unreasonable.

The "Pro-life" party, that loves the death penalty and war, so not really pro-life at all, is now holding millions of Americans (800k, plus their families, plus the millions of people who depend on those services) hostage in an act of economic terrorism, until the other side fully caves into their demands. They are the ones not willing to negotiate, but are doing some 1984 level doublespeak, and blaming it all on the Democrats. And the Fox News types are eating it up, which is probably why Trump thinks he's winning. "Just look. Steve says I'm doing good and that all real Americans support me."

They need to pass a law, that Congress, their aids and staff, the President, their aids and staff, the White House aids and staff... all don't get paid on any shutdown. If they've already given up their salary (I love how Trump followers commend Trump for giving up his salary, while ignoring he makes more a year off the Secret Service than he would in years of salary) then they have to reimburse that salary they would have made in that time. Congress and the President may not take back pay, and it takes a 60% vote to authorize the aids and staff back pay, but only if all other Federal workers also get their back pay first in a separate and prior authorization.

I've been following this story here. Sure was happy when they were found alive -- I had started to lose much hope after they'd been gone 4+ days.

The bad news today is that a Thai volunteer diver, a former SEAL, died on a return trip from setting up extra air supply tanks along the route. BBC coverage is very good:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44734385

Most cave diving experts think that it would be extremely risky to try to move the kids out by diving. One of the on-scene people from the US has said that none of the boys know how to swim, let alone dive, and the conditions in cave diving make it so that panic can quickly lead to disaster.

Unfortunately, a new complication has come up. Oxygen levels in the chamber they are in are now at 15%, down from the usual 21%. They are working to get piping in to supply fresh air, but logistics of that are difficult since they need about 3 miles of piping. And to make matters worse, heavy rains are in the forecast, which will further stress the pumping that they are doing to keep water levels low in the cave.

The Thai head of the Navy rescue operation was quoted today as saying that "At first, we thought the children could stay for a long time... but now things have changed, we have a limited time." If that is correct and can't be resolved (due to dropping oxygen levels, rising water, or whatever), they may have to opt for the risky exit via diving. So definitely not out of the woods yet.

Your video, FOUND Missing 12 Thai Soccer Kids Trapped in Flooded Cave, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

There is a generally held belief that consciousness is a mystery of science or a miracle of faith; that consciousness was attained instantly (or granted by god), and that one has either attained self awareness or has not.

I don't believe any of that. I believe like all things in biology, consciousness evolved to maximise a benefit, and occurred gradually, without any magic or mystery. The closest exurb1a gets to that is when he says at 6:28:

"Maybe evolution accidentally made some higher mammals on Earth self-aware because it's better for problem solving or something"

We need to know what other people are thinking and this is the problem that consciousness solves. If a neighbouring tribe enters your territory then predicting whether they come to trade, mate, steal or attack is beneficial to survival.

Initially this may be done through simulation - imagining the future based on past experience. A flood approaching your cave is bad news. Being surrounded by lions is not good. Surrounding a lone bison is dinner. Being charged by a screaming tribe is an upcoming fight.

We could only simulate another person's actions, but we had no experience that allows us to simulate another person's thoughts. You may predict that giving your hungry neighbour a meal may suppress their urge to raid your supplies but you still can't simply open their head and see what they are thinking.

Then for the benefit of cooperation and coordination, we started to talk, and everything changed.

Communication not only allows us to speak our mind, but allows us to model the minds of others. We can gain an understanding of another person's motivations long before they act upon them. The need to simulate another person's thoughts becomes more nuanced and complex. Do they want to trade, or do they want to cheat?

Yet still we cannot look into the minds of others and verify our models of them. If we had access to an actual working brain we could gradually strengthen that model with reference to how an actual brain works, and we happen to have access to such a brain, our own!

If we monitored ourselves then we could validate a general model of thought against real urges, real experiences, real problem solving and real motivations. Once we apply our own selves to a model of thought we become much better at modelling the thoughts of others.

And what better way to render that model than with speech itself? To use all of our existing cognitive skills and simply simulate others sharing their thoughts with us.

At 3:15 exurb1a referenced a famous experiment that showed that we make decisions before we become aware of them. This lends evidence to suppose that our consciousness is not the driver of our thoughts, but a monitor - an interpretation of our subconscious that feeds our model of how people think.

Not everybody is the same. We all have different temperaments. Some of us are less predictable than others, and we tend to avoid such people. Some are more amenable to co-operation, others are stubborn. To understand the temperament of one we must compare them to another. If we are to compare the model of another's mind to our own, and we simulate their mind as speech, then we must also simulate our own mind as speech. Then not only are we conscious, we are self-aware.

Add in a feedback loop of social norms, etiquette, acceptable behaviour, expected behaviour, cooperation and co-dependence, game theory and sustainable societies and this conscious model eventually becomes a lot more nuanced than it first started - allowing for abstract concepts such as empathy, shame, guilt, remorse, resentment, contempt, kinship, friendship, nurture, pride, and love.

Consciousness is magical, but not magic.

Might be interesting if the story of what exactly happened was include.

(edit)
CNN story on whats happening https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/02/asia/thai-cave-rescue-intl/index.html

(edit)

Yep, a comedian on a comedy tour taking a joke picture pretending to assault a sleeping woman who then quit of his own accord is exactly the same as a long term pedophile who enjoys his parties full support and never backs down or apologizes even after losing, or a philanderer who blackmail his mistress by taking naked pictures of her tied up and threatening to make them public then fights removal.

There is no equivalency. There's not a monopoly on one side, no, but there's absolutely not "every bit as much corruption and dishonesty on the Democrat side of politics as there is on the Republican". Republican dishonesty is about selling the country to Russia and raiding the treasury, and hiding or excusing inexcusable behavior and permeates everything they say. Democratic dishonesty is about which email account an email came from and pretending the leadership has no bias, and bowing to hyper sensitivity and disingenuous faux outrage.

For example...
Asked how his tax plan benefits the rich, he replied....
Trump: "No, I don't benefit. I don't benefit. In fact, very very strongly, as you see, I think there's very little benefit for people of wealth."

When asked about his rich friends....
"They can call me all they want; not going to help," he said Sept. 27, 2017. "I'm doing the right thing and it's not good for me, believe me."

When asked about the Trump zero tolerance plan to tear families apart as a political ploy, Trump claimed the Democrats did it and only they can reverse it, then he reversed his plan himself proving both family destroying lies to be lies.

The consistency, levels, and importance of the dishonesty from Republicans is exponentially greater than that from Democrats, who are far from perfect themselves.

Edit: Btw, Mahr has addressed the issue of him running for office repeatedly, he's capable and intelligent enough to be honest and say he's a horrible politician and would probably never run, and he knows he's far more influential exactly where he is than he might be as a freshman representative.....and he's smart enough to see that a candidate that gets out the vote for the opposition (like Clinton) is a horrendously stupid idea.
And Franken worked out great until he caved to false outrage and quit while pedophiles and abusive philanderers were welcomed into the opposing party feigning the outrage over a funny (but disrespectful) picture.

*promote more views please. I'd love my own blanket cave!

Without people like this to look after you Bob, you'd be covered in shit raping something in a cave.

Y-40 "The Deep Joy" pool first opened on 5 June 2014 and was designed by architect Emanuele Boaretto. It is 40 metres (131 ft) deep, making it the deepest pool in the world. It contains 4,300 cubic metres (1,136,000 US gal) of thermal water kept at a temperature of 32–34 °C (90–93 °F).[4] The pool features underwater caves and a suspended, transparent, underwater tunnel for guests to walk through.

I'll throw my vote in for American Cheese on burgers.

I make cheese at home and every once in a while one comes out with too soft and sticky a texture. The flavor usually isn't what I want either because the moisture content is too high during aging.

I started making pub-cheese with these failures and enjoyed the results. Then I threw some on a breakfast egg and sausage sandwich and it was better than cheddar but the consistency wasn't quite right once it got hot. So I experimented with other ingredients until I had something that melts well and is flavorful enough to stand up to breakfast sausage or bacon or jalapenos on a burger...whatever. It finally occurred to me the first time I made a grilled cheese sandwich with it that I've been making American cheese.

I love cheese, that's why I have a notebook full of my cheese making notes and a full-size stand-up freezer converted to a cheese cave. But damned if my homemade American cheese isn't the best thing to put on a burger.

In a world where the world ends at the end of your block
And them uh, little whirlwinds spin friction round the clock
I'll be savage, hunt and gather the average rather cadaver
Cock back hammer, splatter matter all over cell phone and calendar
No peace, yeah, in the middle of a war zone, riddle when the norm thinks slow
No sleep, yeah, with the shades down low, on the down low fighting with a dream
I creep, yeah, all secrets please, I don't need to speak
I'm paranoid like a man in the land of the free
To set up and let us burn and turn cheek, damn
Stop with the octagon, top your block, I'm gone
Off my rock, no songs, no more locked, yeah
Just a little bit a prison for everyone of us
We won't listen till there isn't any more of us
These days we quick to part ways with rights like "okay"
Here, let's be clear, for the record I did not sign up for lockdown
Or any kind of shock and I'm so bored

You must have forgot just who you were dealing with
Nothing less than aggression so naked, so crystal clear with a
Trust in absolutely fucking nothing but Doomtree
Step up your thought game lame, we're all thirsty!

It's like they leave us no option
Walking these streets, heat is watching
These preachers speak from their pockets
These teachers...bring it back c'mon
These teachers reach but can't stop it
Seedlings so poisoned, so lost and
Follow these prophets to nonsense
Tossing what's right to the dust
And I ain't no casualty
Got no surface with spotless morality
My dirt might have to cover up my grave
But I keep my fear of faith
And filth clutter up my cave
Got me looking for disinfectant
(I don't know how to behave)
God, I'm bored!

You must have forgot just who you were dealing with
Nothing less than aggression so naked, so crystal clear with a
Trust in absolutely fucking nothing but Doomtree
Step up your thought game lames, we're all thirsty!

Mooooooooore!...
So thirsty for mooooooooore!...

Um....so you think the right didn't make sinister sounding documentaries about Clinton? Where have you been living the last 25 years, a cave in the Peruvian alps?

I think perhaps the "glass houses" complaints are being made by people living in a paper thin crystal snow globe who wish to distract from that fact.

Recall, Trump ran on the lie that he paid for his entire campaign and was beholding to no one, it was absolutely central to his candidacy, and was just another pack of obvious bold faced lies he sold the right, like draining the swamp, releasing his taxes, hiring the "best and brightest people", and putting his assets in a blind trust....all of which were total lies.

Then, you (We) are suggesting legitimizing their claim to be autonomous states by accepting that classification to be able to declare war against them. Horrible idea, and against international law.

I call bullshit. That's like saying if an American commits a crime outside of America, or inside it against a foreigner, America just declared war on that country. Absolute bullshit. if Pakistan's government didn't direct the attack, they aren't declaring war. You don't hold a nation accountable for the actions of a few criminals within their borders unless they are backed by that nation. Because they can't stop the monster(s) we made (neither can we) absolutely in no way means they yield their sovereignty...that's asinine. EDIT: your theory would mean the Bundies would be their own country now, sovereign and at war with America, because we were unable to stop them from taking over public land (repeatedly), and didn't prosecute any of them.

Bullshit again. Because they aren't a state, they shouldn't be treated as one, no matter what bullshit they claim. Duh. Maybe they claim to be one, but they don't run away from that claim, it just isn't given credence by accepting it. They mostly are illegal aliens in the countries they now live in.

Afghanistan had good reason to refuse Bush....and you might recall were fighting the Taliban and Al-Qaida already for control of their own country.

Afghanistan was not hosting the terrorists, they 'invaded' or morphed out of non government controlled militias (Al-Qaida started as a retirement unit for the 'freedom fighters' we trained to fight Russia) . The Afghan government has excellent reasons to never invite a super power to cross their borders ever again.....and empires have good reason to avoid doing so. Afghanistan did not start or declare war with us, some invaders and criminals squatting in caves there did.

Exactly, the terrorist organizations aren't the fault or beneficiary of the government's in the countries where they hide or invade, they are the fault of those that support them, oddly missing from the travel ban and our assassination plans. See how that might piss off Afghansans and Pakistani?