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Doc_M (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

Sorry, should have been more clear with the first half of the sentence; I'm on the case to disprove your claim, but a 3 minute search only revealed one oddity, that the males of a species of bat nurse young... in other words you're claim is safe, ... FOR NOW! (lights dim, thunder/lightning in the background) MUAHAHAhahah...!

... but seriously, it does seem that mammals are pretty boring and uniform with their raising of the next generation, versus reptiles/birds/fish.

In reply to this comment by Doc_M:
Read the rest of the post my fiend.

In reply to this comment by bamdrew:
... I feel sometimes like rules are meant to be broken, but all I could find with a quick search was this; http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v367/n6465/abs/367691a0.html

Doc_M (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

MY understanding is that two things ruffle feathers:

1)no cell lines derived from extra sperm-plus-egg after in vitro fertilization ("no you may not use this for experiments, its precious... now off to the incinerator with it"),

and

2)arbitrary limits on what scientists can do based on a moral feeling, determined independent of the usual methods employed to protect populations or otherwise limit research, and which lead to a somewhat illogical end; telling scientists its not moral to add chemicals to human stem cells moments after they've added them to a dish of any other animal's stem cells can seem odd... they're both a couple of dishes with cells in them... neither is going to ever bark or say hi.

And slippery-sloping it, as some do, to saying things like "if we let them do this they'll have cyborgs modeled with Arnold's stem cells" is bogus, precisely because according to them scientists can do the same thing by reversing adult cells into pluripotency. Anyhow, placing restrictions on a tool like the use of a human cell line for moral reasons is strange to me,... and I'm more curious how far the pendulum will swing when it swings back the other direction.



In reply to this comment by Doc_M:
You can probably guess by now that I am not an abortions supporter for most reasons, so naturally, I don't support production of new embryonic stem cell lines by that method. I think that the advances of adult-derived stem cells are FAR more valuable than any other research of its type. I have friends who study embryonic lines and those who study adult derived lines. I have to confess that that the adult derived lines seem to produce more results and more promising futures than the embryonic lines ironically.

I support a ban on embryonic stem cell line generation simply because there is a significant chance that it is wrong. We don't need them. We have shown that we don't need them. Let's work on something we know to be worth what is spent. I feel similarly about animals; use them only when absolutely needed, and though that is often, use them minimally.
And BTW, Net, 3.2 million is nothing. Talk to me in billions. My lab alone (of thousands) is budgeted a million a year, though lately we haven't been spending that much.

Farhad2000 (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

MY understanding is that two things ruffle feathers:

1)no cell lines derived from extra sperm-plus-egg after in vitro fertilization ("no you may not use this for experiments, its precious... now off to the incinerator with it"),

and

2)arbitrary limits on what scientists can do based on a moral feeling, determined independent of the usual methods employed to protect populations or otherwise limit research, and which lead to a somewhat illogical end; telling scientists its not moral to add chemicals to human stem cells moments after they've added them to a dish of any other animal's stem cells can seem odd... they're both a couple of dishes with cells in them... neither is going to ever bark or say hi.

And slippery-sloping it, as some do, to saying things like "if we let them do this they'll have cyborgs modeled with Arnold's stem cells" is bogus, precisely because according to them scientists can do the same thing by reversing adult cells into pluripotency. Anyhow, placing restrictions on a tool like the use of a human cell line for moral reasons is strange to me,... and I'm more curious how far the pendulum will swing when it swings back the other direction.



In reply to this comment by Doc_M:
You can probably guess by now that I am not an abortions supporter for most reasons, so naturally, I don't support production of new embryonic stem cell lines by that method. I think that the advances of adult-derived stem cells are FAR more valuable than any other research of its type. I have friends who study embryonic lines and those who study adult derived lines. I have to confess that that the adult derived lines seem to produce more results and more promising futures than the embryonic lines ironically.

I support a ban on embryonic stem cell line generation simply because there is a significant chance that it is wrong. We don't need them. We have shown that we don't need them. Let's work on something we know to be worth what is spent. I feel similarly about animals; use them only when absolutely needed, and though that is often, use them minimally.
And BTW, Net, 3.2 million is nothing. Talk to me in billions. My lab alone (of thousands) is budgeted a million a year, though lately we haven't been spending that much.

Doc_M (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

... I feel sometimes like rules are meant to be broken, but all I could find with a quick search was this; http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v367/n6465/abs/367691a0.html

In reply to this comment by Doc_M:
I'll edit it to read "most mammals" to please you. I have yet to find a person who would have rather been aborted than live. On second thought, don't elk still breast-feed? Herd yes, mom yes? Educate me. Kindly point out the mammal(s) that don't breast feed or don't require any motherhood after birth.

Sniper007 (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

The author chooses to describe the Bible's contradictions as clear contradiction; you feel they are 'apparent contradictions'. If the Bible were a regular book written by many authors the contradictions would be impossible to ignore, but you argue a better understanding of... the contex? or the material? will lead to a resolution of these contradictions. I personally don't see how.

I hope you're not arguing that the old testament was a meaner God who become less bloodthirsty by the new testament...

In reply to this comment by Sniper007:
So... the moral authority for all of life is "ethical intuitions"? Would not those fail us as well? Sam Harris presupposes (without discussion) that men are basically, fundamentally good and that men will define and keep the proper moral standards based on their own "ethical intuitions". How does Sam Harris know that it is wrong to "paddle children" (as his diatribe implies)? Is it wrong to paddle children because the majority of people feel it is against their "ethical intuitions"? Do we need a poll to determine the morality of such events? How would such moral standards ever change over time if there is no set standard to which we may return, and the only 'standard' is current popular opinion? He fails to realize that the only reason he can even determine that it is -allegedly- wrong to stone certain individuals because of the Bible's commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." The true problem Harris has is understanding the apparent contradictions in the Bible. Rather than seeking a greater understanding of these ostensibly conflicting Biblical mandates, he chooses to ridicule all religious positions without clarifying or even considering his own position. His position is, in fact, untenable.

campionidelmondo (Member Profile)

gorgonheap (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

I disagree. I know exactly how he as a person will vote. He was raised a in a poor family by a very strong, very liberal mother, never even knowing his father. He was also raised by Christian grandparents, who instilled in him a love for country and a burning idealism for how Americans can get things accomplished. He is a liberal, and votes his liberal conscious.

However whats great about Obama is that he is brilliant at a few key things which make people who recognize them very excited about his presidency. Lets see, I'll throw out three of them real fast... 1)selecting, managing and inspiring other brilliant people, 2)understanding and engaging both sides of an argument to fairly guide towards compromises that work, and 3)valuing American history, the Constitution and the founding spirit of 'anything is possible'. Towards the last point, I mean, he honestly believe he can get a huge squad of people who disagree together to form a plan to pull us safely from Iraq in 18 months, and another squad of people who disagree to form the beginnings of universal health care over the next 4 years. And, personally I think if anyone is smart enough to direct us out of this ditch, its this guy.

I loved McCain in 2000. The last 3 years have seen him doing everything he can to win votes from the people who brought us GWBushJR, which makes for exceedingly awkward choices like not signing the new GI Bill and dumbing down his opposition to secret military prisons, both for no particularly convincing reason other than thats what he's supposed to do. Its honestly hard for me to watch McCain's speeches and interviews today, because half the time he's not comfortable on the side of the argument he's putting him self, and anyone with a memory stretching back to 2000 or even 2006 will notice he's a changed man; http://www.videosift.com/video/McCain-Debates-Self-on-Bush , http://www.videosift.com/video/Washington-Bureaucrat-Predicts-USA-Politics-For-2009



In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:
That's the problem, unless we get republicans back in congress, they are going to run Obama too. He voted with his party 93% of the time. I'll admit that McCain isn't much better since he mistakes stubbornness for principal. But Peloci pushed Obama around when he was a senator and I can see her doing the same if he's elected president.

I feel like I'm trying to choose the lesser of two evils this election season. But my biggest issue with Obama is his double talk, I have no idea what he's going to do because he talks out of both sides of his mouth. He needs to find his issues and stick to them.

In reply to this comment by bamdrew:
Confession; my car has one bumper sticker on it, and its Obama'08.

He's a smart man. There's a small possibility he could become a Nixon, but a much greater chance he'll work to get congress to bullshit around just a little less.

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:
Thanks for the article, it was a good read. I really hope the American public can see how unstable he is before November.

In reply to this comment by bamdrew:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/opinion/20brooks.html?em&ex=1214107200&en=98dbf7f8bae1fe38&ei=5087%0A

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:


He advocates energy independence but pretends this can occur without more domestic drilling for oil and natural gas.

Of course maybe that's the defining mark of a true politician, being able to speak to one side while the other hears a different message.

gorgonheap (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

Confession; my car has one bumper sticker on it, and its Obama'08.

He's a smart man. There's a small possibility he could become a Nixon, but a much greater chance he'll work to get congress to bullshit around just a little less.

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:
Thanks for the article, it was a good read. I really hope the American public can see how unstable he is before November.

In reply to this comment by bamdrew:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/opinion/20brooks.html?em&ex=1214107200&en=98dbf7f8bae1fe38&ei=5087%0A

In reply to this comment by gorgonheap:


He advocates energy independence but pretends this can occur without more domestic drilling for oil and natural gas.

Of course maybe that's the defining mark of a true politician, being able to speak to one side while the other hears a different message.

gorgonheap (Member Profile)

Payback (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

all modern military fighter jets pucker their assholes; in this one the assholes (thrusters) can pivot around, like if you were to strap rockets on your boots and steer some by aiming your feet... anyhow, thats why its kind-of a big deal, and the reason why it can flip around in a loop in like 2 seconds.

In reply to this comment by Payback:
So? The Russians can pucker the assholes on their planes as well as their pilots. Big whoop.

Deano (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

Did you know that some invertebrates (like the octopus and cuttlefish) have a colorless blood that turns green-blue when oxygenated? Instead of iron, their respiratory system makes use of copper to transport oxygen. The theory is that in cold, high pressure, low-oxygen places this mechanism functions more efficiently.

Farhad2000 (Member Profile)

bleedingsnowman (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

Its nice to meet a like-minded soul on the old superhighway. Thanks for dropping me a line.

The two heavy sifters on here I have found to be most consistently awesome are plastiquemonkey and farhad2000 (tellingly, plastique oversees 'art' and farhad 'obscure' in case you hadn't noticed). Plastiquemonkey in particular always seems like she's just one step ahead of me, where I'll just hear about somebody cool and notice she posted 3 videos of them a year ago. Unfortunately, also like me, she disappears for months on end, posting barely anything. Issykitty, Deano, deputydog also post great stuff, along with a number of other people...


In reply to this comment by Bleedingsnowman:
I went through your videos. I like your style. That band Supercar has a few things on Amazon but they run upwards of 55 dollars for an album. Are they that obscure?

bleedingsnowman (Member Profile)

bamdrew says...

I imagine all the old Supercar is import-only, without a U.S. label releasing it. They broke up a few years back, too, and I don't know if much of their stuff has been re-released. I remember a friend had a dvd of their last concert, I think called 'Last' or something. Some of the members are doing solo stuff now, so you can look around for that.

This guy is also a supercar fan, so you might want to ask him whats up with getting their cd's. http://www.videosift.com/member/JAPR

In reply to this comment by Bleedingsnowman:
I went through your videos. I like your style. That band Supercar has a few things on Amazon but they run upwards of 55 dollars for an album. Are they that obscure?

intangiblemeg (Member Profile)



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