It wasn’t so much a discovery as a realization, no one told me…I never believed in magic, the supernatural, or mythological monsters, so the first serious examination of what Santa allegedly did was enough to understand it was just a cultural fantasy. I’m embarrassed it took me so long to consider….I might have even been 6.

Eventually I forgave them, but at the time I remember telling them I was very disappointed in them for lying to me, especially over something so dumb.
They were surprised, I think they apologized, and explained they were just trying to make things fun, not trick me somehow. I reminded them of the part about coal and switches if I was bad, and Santa knowing everything. I don’t remember their response to that, but I imagine on some level they were proud I figured out it was really about behavioral control at that young age.

ROTFLMAHS!!!

If you died and God was standing before you bathed in peace inducing angelic light performing miracles, but wasn't orange with a disheveled long hair squirrel on his head, you would deny his divinity and call him a liberal tool.

You are correct, if someone calling themselves God stands in front of me with what appears to be *I'm dead relatives I would assume either 1) I had gone bat shit insane or 2) some alien intelligence was trying to trick me into the matrix. The only time a being claiming to be God might have any credibility is after I'm dead, and even then I would be suspicious, maybe they just made me think I died.
The supernatural isn't real. There is no magic. Ghosts don't exist. Demons and angles aren't real. Neither is the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, manbearpig, nor the great pumpkin.
Any true God would know this, and know I don't believe in infantile fantasy, it would have intentionally made me that way. If unquestioning belief in the unbelievable is what it requires, it needs to put it in me.

Oh Bobby. What did I say that's untrue? I researched, did you? I didn't just repost another unverified political smear from a 100% untrustworthy source, did you? I offered facts you can verify, did you? Seems not, since you didn't even know this is a Trump administration creation, not Biden.

🤦‍♂️

It seems one of us does have difficulty with truth, fact, and reason. I'll gladly put it to a public vote which one, I'm certain enough of the outcome. After all, only one of us believes project veritas....nuff said.

*get it?

Wow, the lack of self awareness is unbelievable.

Yes, some brains rot faster than others, but religion is like aerating the compost and adding lime, it accelerates the rot of all minds exponentially.

Ok...you're going to have to provide more details when you say some astrophysics resembles Hindu theology. I studied Hinduism and astrophysics and see no correlation.

Some religious practices, like meditation, are supported by psychology as beneficial, but absolutely not for the reasons the religions claim, and most aren't supported by science by any stretch of the imagination.

Not a single supernatural claim from any religion is supported by any real science, maybe by pseudoscience, but that's not science, it's snake oil salesmanship.

Give specific examples of poets that perfectly described specific areas of psychology without any evidence to extrapolate from please, that's a wild claim to make without evidence. Please don't say Nostradamus.

What "source" are you referencing, you listed none I can see.

That which can be claimed without evidence can be discarded without evidence.

I love the sideburns.

I'm pretty certain he would be happy to be in that group of deep thinkers instead of one with dumb ass Elvis, the anti drug-pill popper.

Religious people cannot be wholly logical, belief in the unseen unproven physically impossible and largely disproven and debunked supernatural is not logical or rational. (1) Putting your faith in the unproven is irrational and illogical, then using that misguided belief as a cudgel to berate others as +-99% of religious people do is just evil. Way worse than justifying military weapons in the name of science (which isn't reality, btw), it uses belief in the irrational and unprovable to justify USING those weapons on innocent populations, often for believing in the wrong irrational and unprovable supernatural ideas.
The worst atheist ape is more rational than the best believer, and on average around 10* more pleasant to talk with. They won't ever tell you all the ridiculous reasons you're going to hell, unless they're arguing directly from the theist's dogma and not reality....I often slam anti gay religious people for the much worse sin of mowing on Sunday, wearing cotton poly blends, or eating shellfish....but I don't believe it or even pretend to.

There's a logical explanation for Trump....think about how intollerably stupid, self centered, and irrational the average person is....now realize the truth that 1/2 are stupider, more self centered, and more irrational than that....add in the fact Trump lost by >3000000 votes but won the electoral college anyway, and boom, it makes sense. Maddening, soul crushing sense.

X-Secret devil sign on my forehead and spit twice, like Dio's mother taught him.

(1) That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Please don't count my lack of condemnation in this instance as an endorsement. I am sure there is plenty to call Jim Bakker on. I know he did some very despicable (and illegal) things in the 80s and 90s. He supposedly repented of them but I haven't investigated to see whether that is true or not. I definitely wouldn't trust his theology after watching this video.

The disturbing nature of the video is a phenomenon we in the church call "Charismania". It comes from the charismatic church, which has largely become apostate from biblical Christianity by embracing experience over truth. Many of them do nothing else but follow around people like Rick Joyner to hear tell of some new vision or to have a supernatural experience in one of his meetings. I know you don't believe in the supernatural, but they are having a supernatural experience when you see them flop all over the place and jerk spasmodically. It's a real experience but it isn't from God.

I would never recommend anyone listen to anything like this. Instead, people need to systematically learn the bible for themselves so they can evaluate these sorts of claims and recognize them for what they are.

But, without exception, that is EXACTLY what religions teach, that only those who believe correctly are correct and thus deserving of the supernatural rewards. It's how they excuse proselytizing, often with force. Can you name a real religion that says "we are the proper way to God, but other ways are just as valid."? (And I don't count individuals stating that, only the written texts that codify the beliefs).

Yes, we do treat those other people with disdain, those of us who don't buy into one or more flock that is.

They can't see through the hypocrisy and idiocy because religion/churches demand you not question your religious leaders, absolutely do not think for yourself. Don't try to interpret your dogma for yourself. Doing that leads directly to excommunication or much worse.

None of this is exclusive to Christianity, but in European/American culture it is most prevalent there.

Side question: What good has religion done that could not have been done better without it? Be specific please, with examples.

God gives people grace in many ways. One of those ways is by communicating His will through the preaching of His word. The hearing of the word imparts faith, which is a gift from God. You're wondering how you believe; when you listen to the word with a good heart God will give you the faith to believe it. He will also confirm His word with supernatural signs and wonders.

I don't know how true your appraisal is of those who have told you about the Lord, but your situation is better than those who have never heard. Plus you have me, newtboy, and I'm sure that makes you feel extremely fortunate. Yet scripture tells us that even if the messenger is bad it doesn't negate your responsibility. Faith and reason are complimentary. I think this quote is true: Christianity has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found too difficult and not tried.

I can't speak for the myriad of pretenders but there has only ever been one man who died for your sins. Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah that Moses and the prophets wrote about in the Old Testament. There are exact prophecies like the 70 weeks of Daniel which predict the exact date of His death for our sins. I believe what I believe because I have been changed by His grace. That's my only motivation in telling you or anyone about this, because He is real and you can know that for yourself. You can know that by putting even a slight intellectual effort into understanding the problem. You will find that there are good reasons to believe that God is real and good reasons to believe Jesus is who He said He is. I am a flawed vessel but I serve a God who doesn't need me to prove that He is real. He sends me because He is inviting you to seek Him and be saved.

When I die, I expect I'm going back to where I was before I was born....nowhere.

Obviously this "evidence" is not undeniable...I, and hundreds of millions....actually many billions deny it.

Religopolitical propaganda has no bearing on real life unless you make it. Christian scripture is political, compiled and edited by men with an agenda to make people more easily controlled. That is simply an undeniable historical fact.

You do realize that there are other "undeniable" scriptures from other religions that contradict your chosen dogma, right? You deny all of them, I just deny one more than you do.

I must be really special, because God has made no such thing evident, in fact he gave me the ability to reason which makes evident the fallacy of supernatural entities and powers and makes any creator totally unnecessary, superfluous, and infinitely unlikely.

It's reason that lets me see what "God" is....a tool for civil control and a soothing but baseless answer to the questions of the unknown.

I've told you many times, God is free to reveal himself at any time. He has not done so in any way shape or form, but his fans have offered mountains of proclaimed evidence that was all self referencing circular logic, stone age tribal nonsense, and fantasy fables, and nothing more. If he exists, it's his will to have me not believe. Plain and simple.
My heart is as opened to Jesus as anyone else....but he has to show up and work his way inside. So far he's a total no show, and I'm not holding a table reserved for anybody and pretending they're present. Mot has made more of a substantial showing than Yahweh...should I be serving him?

Never bring a pitchfork to a supernatural nuclear bomb fight.

Hey BSR, I appreciate your question.

It's hard to overstate the impact that Christ has had on my life. Since I was saved He has transformed me into a new person. Not a perfect person, mind you; I am a work in progress.

Before I knew that God existed, I was totally secular in my beliefs. I didn't believe in anything supernatural. When I found out that God was real, it was completely mind blowing because it meant that everything I knew about reality was in some way wrong or incomplete.

I didn't immediately become a Christian, however. I didn't know who God was, but I did know He was all powerful and personally loved me. Actually the last thing I wanted to be was a Christian.

However over the years I received revelation that showed me that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the bible is His book. It all kind of culminated one day when God showed me my spiritual beliefs were delusional and my choice was either to give my life to His Son or deliberately deceive myself. I didn't want to give my life to Jesus but I didn't want to believe a lie either. So I kind of begrudgingly asked the Lord to come into my life. He answered and did show up almost immediately.

I knew I was a sinner, no one had to convince me of that. I knew that if God was holy I needed forgiveness because that meant there would be a judgment. I knew that was the reason that Jesus was sent, to save us from that judgment.

As Christians, our goal is to grow closer to Christ. I am getting to know Him a little better in the last few years. Jesus has come to me not just as Lord but also as a friend. He has given me joy and peace which cannot be described and doesn't come from this world. If you had one second of His joy you would never be the same and never see this world the same way again. Everything you can gain in this world is dust and ashes in comparison.

Jesus Christ is God, but also an intimate friend, and He sincerely cares about our lives. He came to reconcile us to the Father and that is His heart for every person. Because He was human, He understands our weaknesses and doesn't condemn us for it. He knows we need help and has provided everything we need to live a godly life pleasing to God.

His revelation has taught me that there is hope which is real, substantial, and available every day of our life. He has taught me to love sacrificially and lay down my life for another. He has wiped every tear from my eyes and helps me with every problem and situation. He has shown me that He is all the bible says He is, and even more. I know He is faithful and eternally, He will always be there.

Aesop may be a myth, not a real person but a compilation of other storytellers and fabelists. It's not clear either way apparently.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesop
I believe it's likely a man named Jesus existed, largely as described, I just discount all the supernatural and religious stuff. Minus that, I agree with his basic teachings as I understand them.

What makes Aesop's fables objectively good imo is (as I remember them, it's been decades) they aren't self serving or selfish lessons, they are altruistic and civic minded lessons mostly, explaining how doing right for others is beneficial to all, including ones self in the long term even when not in the short term. To be sure, they aren't all about morality, but those that were (as I recall them) were good lessons all.

That's an insane interpretation imo. There's no reason for the 'till heaven and earth pass' part at all then except to confuse the meaning, which would be crazy.

The reason for the Heaven and Earth part is to reaffirm what He said in the previous verse, which is that He didn't come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law. He is saying the law cannot be destroyed. The reason He was strongly reaffirming that is because that is exactly what the Pharisees accused Him of doing.

As to pigs flying meaning 'never' you forget, in 2009....swine flu. ;-)

lol

I put them together because they are written together. You conflate fulfilling the law with "everything being fulfilled" for some reason, when it seems clear to me they are very different things. The Law is not "everything", right?

The law is not everything, but the context of that statement is that He is fulfilling the law. The "all" then is all that which is written for Him to fulfill. An example that ties in would be in Luke 4:21

Also, a main piece you are skipping over is where Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law but fulfill it. That tells you the meaning of what He is talking about. He is definitely saying that the law can be fulfilled, and it can be fulfilled by Him. This is the meaning of the text, that He had come to fulfill it and would (and did) fulfill it.

Right then, Jesus opposed God's law, hardly moral by any religious standard. That Law was still in effect while he lived under any interpretation, something he reiterated in the passage.

He didn't oppose Gods law, He brought something into the situation that had never been there before, which is grace. Since He is the Lord, He can do that. That is exactly what He came to earth to do, which is to bring forgiveness and salvation by faith through grace.

You've ignored my question, or contorted around it. The Law during his life required killing infidels, either he followed it and murdered or not. If not, how is defying God and telling others to follow along not immoral, especially considering the passage where he said that's not OK for ANYONE?

I would venture to guess that the majority of the citizens of Israel had never killed anyone except perhaps if they were in the army. You make it sound like they were a bunch of barbarians running around and bashing peoples heads in. The reality is, everyone knew the law and knew the penalty of certain things was death. It probably would have been relatively rare that people were caught violating laws that led to the death penalty. Jesus followed the law perfectly but it doesn't mean He killed anyone. The only example we have in scripture of that situation is when He showed grace.

".....until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,"
Edit: it seems you give him a 'do as I say, not as I do, I am bound by no law or rules because I am God so infallible' pass, which doesn't seem like him as he's usually described in the least (teaching by example), and goes against any interpretation of Mathew:18 since he definitely hadn't fulfilled "everything" yet.

It would have been right for Him to stone someone who broke the law but the person would be judged by the priests before that could happen. I just doubt that it ever did happen and nothing is mentioned about it in scripture.

I thought I answered, but I'll try again. As I recall, the stories, fables, and parables attributed to Aesop did a great job of not only listing and describing good morals and ethics, but explaining the why of them without resorting to supernatural whim as an explanation. Imo, a much better, clearer job than Jesus and the bible with it's cryptically described, contradictory, changing morals and ethics usually without any explanation. Granted, the man may be just another myth.

Jesus is not a myth, first of all. Even Richard Dawkins believes He was a real person. I enjoyed Aesops fables; my grandfather gave me a book of them as a child (I wish I could find it now). I haven't looked them over in awhile so I can't say what I do or don't agree with. The question is, how are they objectively good? By that I don't mean, something that appeals to you personally. What I mean is, what makes them transcendent above mere human opinion?

That's an insane interpretation imo. There's no reason for the 'till heaven and earth pass' part at all then except to confuse the meaning, which would be crazy.
As to pigs flying meaning 'never' you forget, in 2009....swine flu. ;-)

I put them together because they are written together. You conflate fulfilling the law with "everything being fulfilled" for some reason, when it seems clear to me they are very different things. The Law is not "everything", right?

Right then, Jesus opposed God's law, hardly moral by any religious standard. That Law was still in effect while he lived under any interpretation, something he reiterated in the passage.

You've ignored my question, or contorted around it. The Law during his life required killing infidels, either he followed it and murdered or not. If not, how is defying God and telling others to follow along not immoral, especially considering the passage where he said that's not OK for ANYONE?
".....until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,"
Edit: it seems you give him a 'do as I say, not as I do, I am bound by no law or rules because I am God so infallible' pass, which doesn't seem like him as he's usually described in the least (teaching by example), and goes against any interpretation of Mathew:18 since he definitely hadn't fulfilled "everything" yet.

I thought I answered, but I'll try again. As I recall, the stories, fables, and parables attributed to Aesop did a great job of not only listing and describing good morals and ethics, but explaining the why of them without resorting to supernatural whim as an explanation. Imo, a much better, clearer job than Jesus and the bible with it's cryptically described, contradictory, changing morals and ethics usually without any explanation. Granted, the man may be just another myth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzd1iE67Gyc extended trailer from http://www.darkhorizons.com/supernatural-scooby-doo-episode-trailer/ ...