Fuck WOW up its ugly evil arse

I'm only gonna play WoW until my unemployment insurance runs out. Then I'm gonna quit, I swear.

Which is why I refuse to play it.

Besides, I've got Diablo 3 to look forward to.

That is exactly the problem that I have with most modern RPGs, and nearly every MMO. You get better numbers for the simple sake of getting better numbers. Every enemy that you face has numbers that go up at a rate proportional to the rate yours are going up. When you are level 1, you have 100 health and enemies hit you for 10 damage. When you are level 4, you have 400 health and enemies hit you for 40 damage.

Every piece of "content" that the developers create is made pointless and obsolete by the time you've leveled up 3-4 times. If RPG game-world development was centered around a "leveling" system wherein your character was, at most, 2-3 times more powerful (by the numbers) at the maximum level as you were at the starting level, they could instead concentrate on creating a game world with no level-gated content. Different areas and enemies might require different approaches or styles to conquer, rather that area X only being worth going into if you happen to be from level 10-15, and area Y only being worth going into if you happen to be from level 15-20.

I only play wow for the engaging storyline....

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

I've seen little in WoW that has surprised me. There are a few things here and there, but it really is a game copied from another game that, that game copied from yet another and then they polished it. And..as The Mythbusters proved you can polish a turd; so taking this old-outdated-prehistoric-you-get-the-point concept of go fetch times 5 per level and go gather times 5 per level plus the times 5 per level go kill stuff -- this is WoW's main feature o'fun and is the core to leveling.

The items are okay, some quests are awesome: there's a Plants vs. Zombies type quest that is well done and VERY refreshing, some of the NEW new newbie areas (goblins and furry humans) have great opening quests and have "phases" which are essentially instances "on the run" -- you don't notice it load and others don't know your in it unless they're grouped -- essentially a personal instance, there are a few "red pill" vs. "blue pill" such as making you realize you need to jump off a cliff to complete it, some of the class specific are great due to their obvious care and attention to detail in teaching you how to play your class effectively (the rogue has some of these that are a joy to play), etcetera -- oh wait, there isn't really much beyond that except instances, raids, and "PvP".

Instances can be great with your buddies and when the group size is a nice manageable size, but the fact they don't have randomized group size and level based dungeons is ridiculous, with this much time having passed. The fact that some of the boss fights start of at super hard and never bother to ramp up is stupid (as wiping should minimized to affect only idiots; trust me it doesn't matter if everyone has l33t gear, everyone should have the chance to have a character they feel is special and a force to be reckoned with). Where the hell are unique, non-soulbinding items; i.e., there are these "named" (I know they've made a few, laughable, *requires a raid* to get the guild leader the super item, which means you've got a better chance to win the lottery if you're an average player ) items that could be made into the thousands available (non-soulbinding so that they can be sold on the auction house -- which would fight gold-farmers and allow ANY player to get: THE GOODS) that drop once per server and have a 100% chance of being found for everyone...?

I could go on, but I think my point is made. There is little thought going into game creation and mechanics. Everyone stole from the MUDS, Ultima Online, and what little originality Everquest had; and no-one ever looked back. I know it will take some hard work to make a NEW TYPE of MMO that isn't guaranteed to be a slight upgrade in graphics, item crafting, or *pick your one "special" thing* the next MMO does...

So many of the current crop of MMO's have their own original and great ideas. If it would be sifted through and made into a "best of all worlds" (which is what WoW did, but they left in aggro which is a HUGE disservice to ALL players) we might get something unique and great; it would only need expansions as the core would not need much change ever (unless the engine becomes the "hindrance" to development).

Right now the aggro system n e e d s t o g o . It's archaic and mystifyingly still used though it was made for games that couldn't handle AI running (Ultima Online, Everquest,etc...) full-blast. But, with the power servers have available plus the bandwidth and the users' computer this should be a very easily solved or solvable issue. Second, comes two things that walk hand in hand: dungeons and loot. I addressed both above and what I propose should solve a lot; but imagine semi-random dungeons created that lead to great cities (very doable just from what I've seen in Warhammer and WoW's "phasing"), think: D&D's Forgotten Realms - Undermountain™, anything approaching something that massive would be equal to creating a dungeon the size of the world map, but every-time you enter you procedurally move forward to a new creation (so if you join a party your "dungeons" join to make a "seed" that is unique to those to characters. I'll stop there as it would into full-on programming techniques that aren't used either because of the complexity, non-skill, or doubt that they can make a "performance" acceptable version. Items have just as much ability to be enhanced (their own level-ups with skills, AI weapons, vehicular type, etc...).

Quests are the last concern. Fetch should only be around if you're character is going there anyway. Collection type quests should ONLY be used if you are keeping some of said items and are useful in some way. Hero quests do need to teach you to be a better "x = your class + type of class + modifiers", using instances or "phasing" (which I like more as I hate load screens). Quests need to have an main-arch that branches, but it needs to available to even the solo player; not the 60 man raid (which is a joke in the first place). Quests need to be rich in diversity: send, fetch, lead, fight, find, steal, games, test, challenge, dungeon, redemption, vengeance/wrath, ability, skill, un-lockable/lockable, class, species/race, race/time, item, creation, destruction, defend, follow, help, should I keep listing....?

I hope the programmers, I don't really care who hits the trump card first (although a low monthly cost team would be nice), figure this out. As it is getting boring even though there is "more" to do, how it's presented in WoW makes me less inclined to get involved, because it requires dedication and at that point, as he pointed out is almost as fun as shooting yourself.

As @MilkmanDan points out there is a lot of content that I don't use and at the lower levels I believe this to be fine as you'll make a mage, a shaman, a warrior, etc... Doing the same quest over and over is terrible. However, much of the high level content you CAN see, but you'll never get the riches (lottery again) and doing THE SAME EXACT DUNDEON 30 times to find that one head piece is ridiculous -- that is their idea of fun "high-end" content. F*%K YOU! This is all due to the notion (and I believe you see this in action at the auction houses, if you can compare the past to present) of inflation; the numbers go higher for the sake of going higher -- if it's higher it's better, right?!?. I'm better due to a number increase and I'll add to that number continually, mainly, because as is said above I'm now level 10 and no longer 5. I want the numbers to be in a "set" range so that you know, whenever you find or get something new, immediately how this new addition (or subtraction) will affect you. (Ultima Online got that partially correct and it made fighting on their a unique experience, STILL, although Warhammer Online uses a set number of action points instead of mana so it has a fun PvP experience, but ultimately fails due to the level problem. Oh and PvP is a joke as level and gear are the deciding issues in battle (which is funny as the winners get the better gear, thus making them win more and you can see where that goes...) and as long as you aren't stupid your talent specs (you really can't screw this up anymore as Blizzard decided that you can only go down one tree at a time rather than all three, until you've got talent point 32).

I'll stop there as I'm getting nauseated talking about this much (which is a lot). But, this is my view point on almost any RPG. Why is it so hard to make a fun system -- it seems obvious how to go after these issues. I think they're (the programmers and publishers) are lost in the woods with 100 foot tall pines and I'm on a outcrop that can see over the forest -- I see them occasionally, but even if I yelled (and I've made some of these points before) they'd still never gather a clue of what I mean. Or as it's usually said at this point:

"I'm afraid you can't see the forest for the trees."...

Damn, that was long, phew (hopefully a programmer reads it -- or I'll just cut & paste ) !

After playing WoW with a high ranking raiding guild. He's absolutely correct about raiding. We got better gear to do what? ...raid with. He did forget one thing about raid items. We did use them for PvP as well, in-fact they mostly came in handy for PvP. He's correct about the item numbers and/or the look of the weapons or gear. My guild-mates loved walking around cities with their "uber" gear on while people flocked around them bowing down and kissing their feet. I too wore my gear around but I never did stupid shit like, link epic items in chat, or have auto walk on and walk around so people follow you. I quit just as we reached the end of Burning Crusade (first expansion) I've never looked back. It feels quite good.

That's not it at all about raiding though. You raid because bosses require coordination from 25 people at a time. When you pull one off it's like your guild just pulled off something akin to the Beijing Olympics opening ceremony. Eventually beating that boss becomes so practiced that you don't really want to do it yet again, but at that point you're going so the guild brings you along first to newer bosses.

Yeah he's certainly not entirely correct about the motivation for raiding.

Case in point: I quit 2/3rd through WotLK and didn't play for a year (and it wasn't hard at all to quit, not like a freaking drug, such exaggerations). I played over Christmas break, got to 85, got lots of shiny new gear, far better than anything in WotLK. But I'm sad that I missed out on the Icecrown citadel raids that tied up the expansion storyline. I would have liked facing those challenged. I would have liked experiencing that part of the story.

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kceaton1

Wow - and I thought I typed long posts. I tip my helm, sir.

I enjoy WoW for various reasons. It has the solo experience down to a T and you can find enjoyable ways to spend your time doing PVP, or dailies, or solo questing, or PUG dungeons (shudder), or crafting, of achievements, or other stuff. If you're in a fun guild then you can do dungeons & raids for fun as well. It isn't just the 'lewts' and numbers. Yahtzee has it wrong there. Any raider worth his salt will tell you without blinking it is the fun of raiding with friends, and solving what are (essentially) multi-player puzzles.

And you don't have to be 'addicted' to do it. I putz around in WoW for maybe an hour or two in the late evenings on 2 or 3 nights a week after the kids are down & the wife is doing other stuff. I was easily able to get to level 85 in a couple weeks that way (plus a day or two of multi-hour gaming over the holiday). My guild raids one night a week, for a 2-hour stint. Easily doable while leaving plenty of time for myraids of other interests. Moderation. It's all about moderation.

The only thing worth playing in wow are the BGs.

As far as the very last comment he makes in the video go there's a site called metroid2002 that is devoted to people spending way too much time playing Super Metroid who try to find ways to collect 100% of the items in said game as fast as they can. Someone out there has been late to work because they thought to themselves "If I can just figure out how to get all the items faster, I will have made a difference in the world." Really? In that you made a post on a gaming site? No, in that you exist, you interacted with your existence, and THAT is what life is.

This is a great summary of what WoW was like in vanilla compared to what it's like now, and people will play it simply because it exists. Like they do. That's the only reason people need to play ANY game.

You cannot play a game that doesn't exist. So if the game exists, why does it matter what people play it for? They play it because to them it's part of their life!

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

kceaton1
Wow - and I thought I typed long posts. I tip my helm, sir.
I enjoy WoW for various reasons. It has the solo experience down to a T and you can find enjoyable ways to spend your time doing PVP, or dailies, or solo questing, or PUG dungeons (shudder), or crafting, of achievements, or other stuff. If you're in a fun guild then you can do dungeons & raids for fun as well. It isn't just the 'lewts' and numbers. Yahtzee has it wrong there. Any raider worth his salt will tell you without blinking it is the fun of raiding with friends, and solving what are (essentially) multi-player puzzles.
And you don't have to be 'addicted' to do it. I putz around in WoW for maybe an hour or two in the late evenings on 2 or 3 nights a week after the kids are down & the wife is doing other stuff. I was easily able to get to level 85 in a couple weeks that way (plus a day or two of multi-hour gaming over the holiday). My guild raids one night a week, for a 2-hour stint. Easily doable while leaving plenty of time for myraids of other interests. Moderation. It's all about moderation.


Actually, the real danger in paying for WoW is that your money helps line the pockets of liberal videogame makers. Naw, I'm just kidding, Bobby Kotick donates to the Republican party.

But, seriously -- numbers, numbers. What do those pesky imaginary characters remind me of? Oh! I know -- Videosift! Another dangerous liberal hot spot, plagued by an ever increasing need to sift more and MORE AND MORE videos -- but for what?! To gain powers!! Powers? For what?! TO BETTER SIFT VIDEOS!! Muahahaha! Those evil, evil bastards.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

kceaton1
Wow - and I thought I typed long posts. I tip my helm, sir.
I enjoy WoW for various reasons. It has the solo experience down to a T and you can find enjoyable ways to spend your time doing PVP, or dailies, or solo questing, or PUG dungeons (shudder), or crafting, of achievements, or other stuff. If you're in a fun guild then you can do dungeons & raids for fun as well. It isn't just the 'lewts' and numbers. Yahtzee has it wrong there. Any raider worth his salt will tell you without blinking it is the fun of raiding with friends, and solving what are (essentially) multi-player puzzles.
And you don't have to be 'addicted' to do it. I putz around in WoW for maybe an hour or two in the late evenings on 2 or 3 nights a week after the kids are down & the wife is doing other stuff. I was easily able to get to level 85 in a couple weeks that way (plus a day or two of multi-hour gaming over the holiday). My guild raids one night a week, for a 2-hour stint. Easily doable while leaving plenty of time for myraids of other interests. Moderation. It's all about moderation.


I knew that'd be a long post, but I was trying to include ALL (or almost all) the issues I've had with MMO's and WoW in specific. I felt giving a "summarily summarized" post would be nothing more than noise -- as I've seen my fair share of on "x" MMO forum.

The only reason I posted anything of that length is that I hate to be misunderstood. If there's one thing I've learned on the Internet is that: while being succinct is nice and prudent were it can be used (without compromising your premise and argument), it's a horrific thing to do when you're trying to make useful observations and criticisms. Also, when giving solutions for the target of the criticism. For programmers (and I've been there) the more someone tries to "succinctly critique" a request/argument for you, the less helpful it is, for you. Though my statement may have been superfluous, I did want to cover all my issues with the approach of designers to current MMO design.

Some people read it (as I would assume you read did) and voted it up, so I'd say some appreciate a thorough approach. It's easy to write a lot about this subject for the mere reason that I've played so many others MMOs other than WoW. Each one adds one or two more things to the mix, but there has yet to be a revolution in the mechanics. I, of which, believe that this is something long past due.

The short fact is that I'm someone with programming experience and a slightly higher amount of design experience; that has also played just about every game ever made. Definitely, I've played all the game types. I would just like one MMO to get-it-right!

I also allowed this to be a bit longer to make sure my response didn't sound rude.

But, raids need HEAVY work still. They are VERY much not for an average player -- once again killing MAIN content for 90% of the playerbase. Blizzard needs to take note that every MMO that has gone to a Free2Play model is now back in business, even though they were dying (due to WoW and saturation). Some have seen a quadrupling in profits, not to even mention what happened number wise to the playerbase.

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